Dion to become PM next Monday...

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

blazer_2458 wrote:Ok here's my two cents:

1. This is perfectly legit. Canadians need to understand that we are not the States. This doesnt have anything to do with your beliefs and who you vote for, instead it has to do with the way our political system works. More precisely, in the States people vote for a president, in Canada we vote for a party. Coalition governments are very common in Europe and i see no problem for one here if no 2 (below) applies.

2. Regardless of whether you debate the percentages of not, Harper did not win a majority in this federal election. Yes his party won the most seat. However, that does NOT give him the legitimacy to rule. As a minority leader his job (as appointed by the people) is to form consensus and he has done little in trying to do so. The policies that were brought forth for the next financial budget essentially spat in the liberal, ndp, and blocs face. Harpers caucus was banking on the fact that other parties were too weak to go into another election and during the past weekend his "backtracking" on the pretentuous policies indicates that (ie. no stike for federal workers (wtf is that? Most contracts have been expired for over a year) and the cutoff of fuding to political parties (because the conservatives are backed by big corporations and already have 10 times more than the next parties to use on elections).

In the end, it doesnt matter what political affiliation you have but if you trully belive in democracy then you should have no issue with a coalition government because, right now, Harper is not capable (whether he wants to or not) of creating consensus and running the government. I promised not to dip into the numbers but consider this: would you rather a government formed by 38 % or 61% of the popular vote? If you choose the latter, you chose the coalition government.

p.s. I am very versed in politics and anything relating to political philosophy. Please keep this in mind if you decide to reply to my post because these are issues that get me really worked up. I understand that some people may disagree with the logic that i have presented but PLEASE reply respectfully if you want to avoid a philosophical battle. Im begging you

mojo1016 wrote:

blazer_2458 wrote:Ok here's my two cents:

1. This is perfectly legit. Canadians need to understand that we are not the States. This doesnt have anything to do with your beliefs and who you vote for, instead it has to do with the way our political system works. More precisely, in the States people vote for a president, in Canada we vote for a party. Coalition governments are very common in Europe and i see no problem for one here if no 2 (below) applies.

2. Regardless of whether you debate the percentages of not, Harper did not win a majority in this federal election. Yes his party won the most seat. However, that does NOT give him the legitimacy to rule. As a minority leader his job (as appointed by the people) is to form consensus and he has done little in trying to do so. The policies that were brought forth for the next financial budget essentially spat in the liberal, ndp, and blocs face. Harpers caucus was banking on the fact that other parties were too weak to go into another election and during the past weekend his "backtracking" on the pretentuous policies indicates that (ie. no stike for federal workers (wtf is that? Most contracts have been expired for over a year) and the cutoff of fuding to political parties (because the conservatives are backed by big corporations and already have 10 times more than the next parties to use on elections).

In the end, it doesnt matter what political affiliation you have but if you trully belive in democracy then you should have no issue with a coalition government because, right now, Harper is not capable (whether he wants to or not) of creating consensus and running the government. I promised not to dip into the numbers but consider this: would you rather a government formed by 38 % or 61% of the popular vote? If you choose the latter, you chose the coalition government.

p.s. I am very versed in politics and anything relating to political philosophy. Please keep this in mind if you decide to reply to my post because these are issues that get me really worked up. I understand that some people may disagree with the logic that i have presented but PLEASE reply respectfully if you want to avoid a philosophical battle. Im begging you

The thing you are forgetting and the thing that makes this completely different from normal coalition parties is that this proposed coalition is an amalgamation of all of the losers. Whenever there are coalition governments in Europe and elsewhere, they are made up from the ruling party plus another party to put them into majority seats. Coalition governments are meant to provide stability in parliament when a majority has not been voted in by the people. This is just a bunch of opportunist politicians exploiting the system. I'm pretty disgusted.

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

smash88 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

Ok so let's just let Harper do whatever the hell he wants, I guess that's a lot better... I'm just sick of it all.... it's an argument that will never end... Some people like the guy, I don't... This country in my opinion deserves better... But then that is why I only get one vote... and for the record Dion isn't that guy either, but in my opinion will be a lot more open-minded than Harper...

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

Ok so let's just let Harper do whatever the hell he wants, I guess that's a lot better... I'm just sick of it all.... it's an argument that will never end... Some people like the guy, I don't... This country in my opinion deserves better... But then that is why I only get one vote... and for the record Dion isn't that guy either, but in my opinion will be a lot more open-minded than Harper...

The thing I don't understand is that the opposition in essence has won this battle. Harper took out the contentious part of taking away public funding to political parties and has promised to release the budget sooner than later. What more can Harper do? To go ahead with a stimulus package now to most accounts is foolhardy. We should wait to see what Obama does with the auto industry and analyse the 4th quarter then proceed with smart spending to stimulate the economy. To start throwing around money now will do nothing. Whether you believe a stimulus package is needed or not there is no harm waiting until January and this is all this comes down to. It's ridiculous the opposition would over throw the government over this. It is just a naked power grab at the worst possible time.

smash88 wrote:

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

Ok so let's just let Harper do whatever the hell he wants, I guess that's a lot better... I'm just sick of it all.... it's an argument that will never end... Some people like the guy, I don't... This country in my opinion deserves better... But then that is why I only get one vote... and for the record Dion isn't that guy either, but in my opinion will be a lot more open-minded than Harper...

The thing I don't understand is that the opposition in essence has won this battle. Harper took out the contentious part of taking away public funding to political parties and has promised to release the budget sooner than later. What more can Harper do? To go ahead with a stimulus package now to most accounts is foolhardy. We should wait to see what Obama does with the auto industry and analyse the 4th quarter then proceed with smart spending to stimulate the economy. To start throwing around money now will do nothing. Whether you believe a stimulus package is needed or not there is no harm waiting until January and this is all this comes down to. It's ridiculous the opposition would over throw the government over this. It is just a naked power grab at the worst possible time.

The only reason he did that was because of the threat of a coalition... He did that because he figured he could run the house as a majority because the Liberals were in shambles... Harper needs to accept the fact that he needs support from the others to make this house work until then we are stuck in this position...

If Harper comes out today, and says he's willing to work with the others to make the house work, then i'd be all for it and wouldn't be supporting a coalition of the other parties ... But it's his me versus them attitude, that turns me off... and why IMO again I think we'd be better served by this coalition...

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

Ok so let's just let Harper do whatever the hell he wants, I guess that's a lot better... I'm just sick of it all.... it's an argument that will never end... Some people like the guy, I don't... This country in my opinion deserves better... But then that is why I only get one vote... and for the record Dion isn't that guy either, but in my opinion will be a lot more open-minded than Harper...

The thing I don't understand is that the opposition in essence has won this battle. Harper took out the contentious part of taking away public funding to political parties and has promised to release the budget sooner than later. What more can Harper do? To go ahead with a stimulus package now to most accounts is foolhardy. We should wait to see what Obama does with the auto industry and analyse the 4th quarter then proceed with smart spending to stimulate the economy. To start throwing around money now will do nothing. Whether you believe a stimulus package is needed or not there is no harm waiting until January and this is all this comes down to. It's ridiculous the opposition would over throw the government over this. It is just a naked power grab at the worst possible time.

The only reason he did that was because of the threat of a coalition... He did that because he figured he could run the house as a majority because the Liberals were in shambles... Harper needs to accept the fact that he needs support from the others to make this house work until then we are stuck in this position...

If Harper comes out today, and says he's willing to work with the others to make the house work, then i'd be all for it and wouldn't be supporting a coalition of the other parties ... But it's his me versus them attitude, that turns me off... and why IMO again I think we'd be better served by this coalition...

I would agree with you if this was anything more than a fiscal update. How can the opposition vote for the Throne Speech (essentially agreeing with the direction and goals of the gov't set out for the year) and then bring the government down over a mere fiscal update? I'm sorry but I don't buy it. The gov't doesn't need to consult with any of them in regards to this. He did try to pull a fast one by sneaking in the party funding issue but he relented and pulled it. It's far too early to pass judgement on a gov't that technically has only been in session for a couple of weeks. To think a flimsy coalition government lead by a lame duck leader that has to rely on support of separatists is going to provide better gov't than Harper I think you're sadly mistaken. This is the WORST possible time for this to happen given the state of the global economy.

MurderOnIce wrote:I don't give a crap about partisanship. No country can be run by a coalition. It is plain and simple. Having 3 cooks in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention the opinion of the international community. Plus Dion as our leader? Come on the guy can't run his own party. This is a way bad idea from a bunch of losers who lost an election. If they bring this before the GG, she better call an election not this coalition crap. Then the fence sitters and the morons who vote for candidates who have no hope in winning can pony up an opinion on who should govern. Man I am pissed about this Dung. Diddle wankers. Diddle.

smash88 wrote:

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

smash88 wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:Dion is as good as gone... The Liberals will still go ahead with their leadership convention in the Spring as planned.

As for voting Harper out, it was bound to happen with him getting yet another a minority. I have to agree with DW's statement above in that most people who split the vote by voting NDP or Green or Independent brought this minority government upon themselves. Had more people voted either PC or Grit, this would NOT have been such a big gap. However, what's done is done, and now, it should be interesting to see how things pan out; and for the record, I have NO idea what this coalition will do or what their specific plans are to address the economy, but Clutch, I think this doom & gloom thing is unwarrented. Harper and Flaherty's current position of standing pat and hoping for the best is certainly going to help NO ONE... for me, if this coalition does anything other than bring 3 to 4 parties to ONE table to work together, I think it's a good thing.

Exactly this is meant to get everyone working together, like has been said, I would not be surprised if the conservatives finally give in and deceide to work with the other parties, which is what should have been happening the entire time...

If you honestly believe this will stabilize things and get these parties working together then you're kidding yourself. This coalition won't stop regardless of Harper's next move. It would be political suicide for the opposition parties to back out now regardless of what Harper does.

The Economy will be worse off now and I don't care how much money they put into a "stimulus" package to try to fix things. Top that off with a new election either next week or in a few months and this whole thing looks even dumber.

Ok so let's just let Harper do whatever the hell he wants, I guess that's a lot better... I'm just sick of it all.... it's an argument that will never end... Some people like the guy, I don't... This country in my opinion deserves better... But then that is why I only get one vote... and for the record Dion isn't that guy either, but in my opinion will be a lot more open-minded than Harper...

The thing I don't understand is that the opposition in essence has won this battle. Harper took out the contentious part of taking away public funding to political parties and has promised to release the budget sooner than later. What more can Harper do? To go ahead with a stimulus package now to most accounts is foolhardy. We should wait to see what Obama does with the auto industry and analyse the 4th quarter then proceed with smart spending to stimulate the economy. To start throwing around money now will do nothing. Whether you believe a stimulus package is needed or not there is no harm waiting until January and this is all this comes down to. It's ridiculous the opposition would over throw the government over this. It is just a naked power grab at the worst possible time.

The only reason he did that was because of the threat of a coalition... He did that because he figured he could run the house as a majority because the Liberals were in shambles... Harper needs to accept the fact that he needs support from the others to make this house work until then we are stuck in this position...

If Harper comes out today, and says he's willing to work with the others to make the house work, then i'd be all for it and wouldn't be supporting a coalition of the other parties ... But it's his me versus them attitude, that turns me off... and why IMO again I think we'd be better served by this coalition...

I would agree with you if this was anything more than a fiscal update. How can the opposition vote for the Throne Speech (essentially agreeing with the direction and goals of the gov't set out for the year) and then bring the government down over a mere fiscal update? I'm sorry but I don't buy it. The gov't doesn't need to consult with any of them in regards to this. He did try to pull a fast one by sneaking in the party funding issue but he relented and pulled it. It's far too early to pass judgement on a gov't that technically has only been in session for a couple of weeks. To think a flimsy coalition government lead by a lame duck leader that has to rely on support of separatists is going to provide better gov't than Harper I think you're sadly mistaken. This is the WORST possible time for this to happen given the state of the global economy.

Take out the word flimsy in front of coalition and stop at Harper... Same could be said about the conservative government... any "government" right now will need the support of the bloc to make things happen they hold what 60 or so seats?

smash88 wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:I don't give a crap about partisanship. No country can be run by a coalition. It is plain and simple. Having 3 cooks in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention the opinion of the international community. Plus Dion as our leader? Come on the guy can't run his own party. This is a way bad idea from a bunch of losers who lost an election. If they bring this before the GG, she better call an election not this coalition crap. Then the fence sitters and the morons who vote for candidates who have no hope in winning can pony up an opinion on who should govern. Man I am pissed about this Dung. Diddle wankers. Diddle.

Ok so she calls an election... Same results... What happens?

I just want things to get done...

smash88 wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:I don't give a crap about partisanship. No country can be run by a coalition. It is plain and simple. Having 3 cooks in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention the opinion of the international community. Plus Dion as our leader? Come on the guy can't run his own party. This is a way bad idea from a bunch of losers who lost an election. If they bring this before the GG, she better call an election not this coalition crap. Then the fence sitters and the morons who vote for candidates who have no hope in winning can pony up an opinion on who should govern. Man I am pissed about this Dung. Diddle wankers. Diddle.

Ok so she calls an election... Same results... What happens?

I just want things to get done...

strachattack wrote:

smash88 wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:I don't give a crap about partisanship. No country can be run by a coalition. It is plain and simple. Having 3 cooks in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention the opinion of the international community. Plus Dion as our leader? Come on the guy can't run his own party. This is a way bad idea from a bunch of losers who lost an election. If they bring this before the GG, she better call an election not this coalition crap. Then the fence sitters and the morons who vote for candidates who have no hope in winning can pony up an opinion on who should govern. Man I am pissed about this Dung. Diddle wankers. Diddle.

Ok so she calls an election... Same results... What happens?

I just want things to get done...

Let's disect the issue at hand if it lead to an election. The Tories want to wait until January to release a stimulus package. The opposition wants one now. This is all that it comes down to. It's insane. Is this worth an election? If it's not, it's hardly worth a risky change of power IMHO.