GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Toronto Maple Leafs - 7:00pm Oct. 25th, 2008

Don't forget Brad Isbister. I think Gerber would have to clear waivers, but it could be worked out. I don't know how it relates as far as paying salary, but once a player clears waivers and is sent down, the salary doesn't count against the cap.

Here is the Ian Mendes article:
Brad Isbister's time with the Ottawa Senators organization has come to an end. The veteran forward did not report to the Binghamton Senators, despite being assigned to the AHL farm club last week.

Isbister remains under contract with the Senators, but the NHL club will loan him to a European club for the rest of the season if his agent can work out a deal.

If Isbister fails to land a job elsewhere, the Senators will likely suspend him.

Having said that, I think Gerber will turn it around and play pretty well. As the team improves in front of him, his play will improve.

dennycrane wrote:Don't forget Brad Isbister. I think Gerber would have to clear waivers, but it could be worked out. I don't know how it relates as far as paying salary, but once a player clears waivers and is sent down, the salary doesn't count against the cap.

Here is the Ian Mendes article:
Brad Isbister's time with the Ottawa Senators organization has come to an end. The veteran forward did not report to the Binghamton Senators, despite being assigned to the AHL farm club last week.

Isbister remains under contract with the Senators, but the NHL club will loan him to a European club for the rest of the season if his agent can work out a deal.

If Isbister fails to land a job elsewhere, the Senators will likely suspend him.

If he is loaned out then the european team needs to pay his salary. Basically Ottawa gives another team to sign him if they pay his salary here. I think thats how it works here.

Just a quick thought.....why not contact Shannahan?(sp?) He might provide a spark for the offense? (As well as a shake up, someone will have to be made a healthy scratch)

Interesting idea... but would Shanny want to even come here now based on what's going on and what happened at the end of last season? I think our "attractiveness" is taking a steep dive...

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.

We're eight -- eight! -- games into the season, with another 74 games still to come. Yes, we look like Donkey out there right now, but it's called growing pains. Clearly, our defensive and offensive schemes haven't been fully implemented as of yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if they only start to click in the next 8-10 games. It's going to take time for everyone to adjust. Frankly, sucking at the start isn't totally a bad thing. It means you face adversity early and, if you learn to overcome it, you're a stronger team for having gone through it.

The Commodore/Stillman trade last year showed us how effective it is to bring in help on a team that, overall, hasn't yet sorted itself out. I definitely think we could use a Dman -- the Richardson experiment absolutely has to end -- but now is decidedly not the time to make that move, when we're weak and vulnerable (and liable to be taken advantage of and/or make reactionary moves), and when that new player would step into a disastrous situation. Reactionary moves almost never pay off, and they give the whole team the impression that the organization is in a panic and has no faith in its current players, and that doesn't help anything.

We've got a lot of good, young players here and it's ridiculous to say that eight games have given us enough information to determine whether this or that guy needs to be shipped out. Relax especially on Picard: I agree I shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes as he's too sloppy in his own end, and I hate that pairing with Kuba 5 on 5, but he's got all kinds of offensive potential, and with Kuba, he's the only other guy we have who can do something with the puck in the other team's end. We need to insulate him by pairing him with a strong defensive partner (a guy like Smith) 5 on 5 and throw as much PP at him as he can handle.

Anyway, it may be time to take a lesson from Ron Wilson's play book: if your top players aren't playing their hearts out, bench them. I'm serious. Call up Bass or Zubov or whomever and sit any guy Hartsburg feels isn't giving his all. I don't care if that means Heatley or Spezza sitting for a game or two. We're already spinning our wheels, so another loss or two isn't going to sink us much lower.

rooneypoo wrote:I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.

We're eight -- eight! -- games into the season, with another 74 games still to come. Yes, we look like Donkey out there right now, but it's called growing pains. Clearly, our defensive and offensive schemes haven't been fully implemented as of yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if they only start to click in the next 8-10 games. It's going to take time for everyone to adjust. Frankly, sucking at the start isn't totally a bad thing. It means you face adversity early and, if you learn to overcome it, you're a stronger team for having gone through it.

The Commodore/Stillman trade last year showed us how effective it is to bring in help on a team that, overall, hasn't yet sorted itself out. I definitely think we could use a Dman -- the Richardson experiment absolutely has to end -- but now is decidedly not the time to make that move, when we're weak and vulnerable (and liable to be taken advantage of and/or make reactionary moves), and when that new player would step into a disastrous situation. Reactionary moves almost never pay off, and they give the whole team the impression that the organization is in a panic and has no faith in its current players, and that doesn't help anything.

We've got a lot of good, young players here and it's ridiculous to say that eight games have given us enough information to determine whether this or that guy needs to be shipped out. Relax especially on Picard: I agree I shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes as he's too sloppy in his own end, and I hate that pairing with Kuba 5 on 5, but he's got all kinds of offensive potential, and with Kuba, he's the only other guy we have who can do something with the puck in the other team's end. We need to insulate him by pairing him with a strong defensive partner (a guy like Smith) 5 on 5 and throw as much PP at him as he can handle.

Anyway, it may be time to take a lesson from Ron Wilson's play book: if your top players aren't playing their hearts out, bench them. I'm serious. Call up Bass or Zubov or whomever and sit any guy Hartsburg feels isn't giving his all. I don't care if that means Heatley or Spezza sitting for a game or two. We're already spinning our wheels, so another loss or two isn't going to sink us much lower.

Well said. Knee jerk reactions this soon in can be disastrous. I'm waiting for the 20 game mark to see how it's all coming together. Hopefully we're showing some sort of "jam" by then and a system that's being followed by everyone. We'll see...

rooneypoo wrote:I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.

We're eight -- eight! -- games into the season, with another 74 games still to come. Yes, we look like Donkey out there right now, but it's called growing pains. Clearly, our defensive and offensive schemes haven't been fully implemented as of yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if they only start to click in the next 8-10 games. It's going to take time for everyone to adjust. Frankly, sucking at the start isn't totally a bad thing. It means you face adversity early and, if you learn to overcome it, you're a stronger team for having gone through it.

The Commodore/Stillman trade last year showed us how effective it is to bring in help on a team that, overall, hasn't yet sorted itself out. I definitely think we could use a Dman -- the Richardson experiment absolutely has to end -- but now is decidedly not the time to make that move, when we're weak and vulnerable (and liable to be taken advantage of and/or make reactionary moves), and when that new player would step into a disastrous situation. Reactionary moves almost never pay off, and they give the whole team the impression that the organization is in a panic and has no faith in its current players, and that doesn't help anything.

We've got a lot of good, young players here and it's ridiculous to say that eight games have given us enough information to determine whether this or that guy needs to be shipped out. Relax especially on Picard: I agree I shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes as he's too sloppy in his own end, and I hate that pairing with Kuba 5 on 5, but he's got all kinds of offensive potential, and with Kuba, he's the only other guy we have who can do something with the puck in the other team's end. We need to insulate him by pairing him with a strong defensive partner (a guy like Smith) 5 on 5 and throw as much PP at him as he can handle.

Anyway, it may be time to take a lesson from Ron Wilson's play book: if your top players aren't playing their hearts out, bench them. I'm serious. Call up Bass or Zubov or whomever and sit any guy Hartsburg feels isn't giving his all. I don't care if that means Heatley or Spezza sitting for a game or two. We're already spinning our wheels, so another loss or two isn't going to sink us much lower.

A very good assessment. The way things are going however, waiting until the 20 game mark may be too late. I don't want to have to rely on a Washington type comeback to make the playoffs. I'm not in panic mode yet, rather frustration mode. The points you bring up about what should be done with the lineup are well taken though.

I agree with your points. But, since the salary cap era, the point jockeying has been so tight come playoffs, that every point is crucial and it could be the difference in making the playoffs or having to start the off season early.

We have a serious team defense problem. Which exposes our below average goaltending. I think Murray was ill prepared when it came to building the defense and thought we could get by without a puck moving d-man. (which I think that we need more than 1) Lastly, our marquee players need to be held accountable for their lack effort and team commitment.

Sens4thecup wrote:I agree with your points. But, since the salary cap era, the point jockeying has been so tight come playoffs, that every point is crucial and it could be the difference in making the playoffs or having to start the off season early.

We have a serious team defense problem. Which exposes our below average goaltending. I think Murray was ill prepared when it came to building the defense and thought we could get by without a puck moving d-man. (which I think that we need more than 1) Lastly, our marquee players need to be held accountable for their lack effort and team commitment.

Our problems on defense are two-fold. First, the team looks really disorganized, blowing assignments, taking the wrong man, and being out of position are all problems. Then when they do finally get organized and retrieve the puck they often have a hard time starting a break out. It's terrible how many times they have to pass the puck backwards to try breaking out again. That is really affecting our transition game, which is part of the reason our offence is struggling. Well that and our 2nd and 3rd line can't buy a goal.

I absolutely agree with holding everyone accountable, particularly the stars. Hartsburg has to show this squad that everyone is accountable.

rooneypoo wrote:I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.

It's a good take Rooney. I can't help it either, I want to hold out until 20 games in to see where we are. It was damn frustrating last night though.

Sens4thecup wrote:Just a quick thought.....why not contact Shannahan?(sp?) He might provide a spark for the offense? (As well as a shake up, someone will have to be made a healthy scratch)

I would like to, but is it a waste right now? This team needs to get on the same page - and quick. It really reminds me of 06-07 where we blew donkey to start the year and then started to come together.

The big question is: can Auld hold us in game like Emery did? People tend to forget that Emery started that by being rock solid in nets while the guys got the last bits sorted out.

504Heater wrote:

Sens4thecup wrote:Just a quick thought.....why not contact Shannahan?(sp?) He might provide a spark for the offense? (As well as a shake up, someone will have to be made a healthy scratch)

I would like to, but is it a waste right now? This team needs to get on the same page - and quick. It really reminds me of 06-07 where we blew donkey to start the year and then started to come together.

The big question is: can Auld hold us in game like Emery did? People tend to forget that Emery started that by being rock solid in nets while the guys got the last bits sorted out.

I still think letting Ray go was a mistake. we had finally developed a goalie, and then we blow it.

504Heater wrote:

Sens4thecup wrote:Just a quick thought.....why not contact Shannahan?(sp?) He might provide a spark for the offense? (As well as a shake up, someone will have to be made a healthy scratch)

I would like to, but is it a waste right now? This team needs to get on the same page - and quick. It really reminds me of 06-07 where we blew donkey to start the year and then started to come together.

The big question is: can Auld hold us in game like Emery did? People tend to forget that Emery started that by being rock solid in nets while the guys got the last bits sorted out.

Agreed.

Tukker wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Sens4thecup wrote:Just a quick thought.....why not contact Shannahan?(sp?) He might provide a spark for the offense? (As well as a shake up, someone will have to be made a healthy scratch)

I would like to, but is it a waste right now? This team needs to get on the same page - and quick. It really reminds me of 06-07 where we blew donkey to start the year and then started to come together.

The big question is: can Auld hold us in game like Emery did? People tend to forget that Emery started that by being rock solid in nets while the guys got the last bits sorted out.

I still think letting Ray go was a mistake. we had finally developed a goalie, and then we blow it.

I think the mistake was allowing his antics get to the point where it was a distraction for the team. When he came back from injury last year, we should have been harder on him right away for not rehabbing properly. Tough love right from day one may have better served that situation.

rooneypoo wrote:I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.

We're eight -- eight! -- games into the season, with another 74 games still to come. Yes, we look like Donkey out there right now, but it's called growing pains. Clearly, our defensive and offensive schemes haven't been fully implemented as of yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if they only start to click in the next 8-10 games. It's going to take time for everyone to adjust. Frankly, sucking at the start isn't totally a bad thing. It means you face adversity early and, if you learn to overcome it, you're a stronger team for having gone through it.

The Commodore/Stillman trade last year showed us how effective it is to bring in help on a team that, overall, hasn't yet sorted itself out. I definitely think we could use a Dman -- the Richardson experiment absolutely has to end -- but now is decidedly not the time to make that move, when we're weak and vulnerable (and liable to be taken advantage of and/or make reactionary moves), and when that new player would step into a disastrous situation. Reactionary moves almost never pay off, and they give the whole team the impression that the organization is in a panic and has no faith in its current players, and that doesn't help anything.

We've got a lot of good, young players here and it's ridiculous to say that eight games have given us enough information to determine whether this or that guy needs to be shipped out. Relax especially on Picard: I agree I shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes as he's too sloppy in his own end, and I hate that pairing with Kuba 5 on 5, but he's got all kinds of offensive potential, and with Kuba, he's the only other guy we have who can do something with the puck in the other team's end. We need to insulate him by pairing him with a strong defensive partner (a guy like Smith) 5 on 5 and throw as much PP at him as he can handle.

Anyway, it may be time to take a lesson from Ron Wilson's play book: if your top players aren't playing their hearts out, bench them. I'm serious. Call up Bass or Zubov or whomever and sit any guy Hartsburg feels isn't giving his all. I don't care if that means Heatley or Spezza sitting for a game or two. We're already spinning our wheels, so another loss or two isn't going to sink us much lower.

I think that was the first bad game Spezza had, honestly. His turnover in the first game OT was a bad move on an otherwise great night, and since then he's been making good plays, dumping and chasing -- and winning the chase. Last night he dipsy-doodled before crossing the blue-line and had a blind pass (didn't result in anything, but we lost the zone). So I'll give him a Mulligan.

Fisher can sit out for a few games until he gets back into game shape. Because he isn't in it right now. How many times have you seen him go for a hit and end up on his a**?

Heatley, in my opinion, has taken on some of the bad habits Spezza had shed. He can join Fish, or alternate with him. Don't really care, but for a guy who's wearing the A I think he should be doing more.

I'd like to see some youthful enthusiasm. Bring up Zubov, Smith, Bass (of course). Bring back Lee, please. Trade Schubert. I used to love that guy but he's pouting while getting paid close to a million/year just because he cannot play full-time D? Did he not watch game tape from the pre-season? I have no problem with him playing D if it's deserved, but come on.

504Heater wrote:It's a good take Rooney. I can't help it either, I want to hold out until 20 games in to see where we are. It was damn frustrating last night though.

Heh heh. Well, it's not like we have any control over what happens. So, we just watch and see what happens. We are at the mercy of Murray and Hartsburg... and ultimately Melnyk...

This is how the team started the 2006-07 season:

G1: 4-1 win against Toronto (Gerber)
G2: 6-0 loss to Toronto (Gerber started but pulled)
G3: 4-3 loss to Buffalo (Gerber)
G4: 1-0 loss to Calgary (Emery)
G5: 3-2 shootout win against Montreal (Emery)
G6: 2-1 loss to Colorado (Gerber)
G7: 8-1 win against New Jersey (Emery)
G8: 6-2 win against Toronto (Gerber)
G9: 7-2 win against Toronto (Emery)
G10: 2-1 loss to Boston (Gerber)
G11: 4-2 loss to Montreal (Emery)
G12: 3-2 loss to Carolina (Gerber)
G13: 4-3 OT loss to Washington (Gerber)
G14: 5-4 loss to Atlanta (Gerber)
G15: 6-3 win against Pittsburgh (Gerber)
G16: 4-3 loss to Boston (Gerber)
G17: 6-3 loss to Montreal (Gerber)

6-11 record after 17 games (plus a loser point) and that's when Emery took over.

This year we have 2 wins after 8 games (we had 4 in 06-07). We also have Auld instead of Emery. I'm a little worried but it's still too early to be worried a lot.