Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Stuetzle-Tierney-Brown
Sanford-White-Paul
Formenton-Pinto-Watson

Chabot-Zub
MDZ-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-Holden

Murray

Certainly a far cry from what we'll see tonight in Winnipeg.

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Matthew signed on the 24th; Keith held out until the 25th.  Brady will probably sign $8.4M x 8 on Sunday.

That’s a ridiculous AAV

How so?  Face of the franchise, important leader on and off the ice, sells tickets and jerseys, fan favorite. Chabot signed 8x8 2 years ago. The pandemic is not seen as a re-set but a bump (big one, sure) in the road.  New media deals will raise HRR which will raise the cap significantly over the 8 year span. Plus we know from past experience that the Sens will offer higher back-end-loaded contracts versus signing bonuses.  Look at Chabot's contract.  Similar thing (offset by 2 years) here, with modest increase this season and next, then going up once the escrow drops to normal.

I think 8x8 is enough, and the max they should do. If he doesn’t want that right now, sign him for the 2 or 3 years and negotiate again in a couple of years. Chabot is the best player on the team. I don’t think you to over his AAV. They also shouldn’t have to give out much in signing bonuses considering the stars who just signed with very little in bonus money. 8 million should already be considered an overpay to offset any bonus money

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Stuetzle-Tierney-Brown
Sanford-White-Paul
Formenton-Pinto-Watson

Chabot-Zub
MDZ-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-Holden

Murray

Certainly a far cry from what we'll see tonight in Winnipeg.

Is it televised?

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Matthew signed on the 24th; Keith held out until the 25th.  Brady will probably sign $8.4M x 8 on Sunday.

That’s a ridiculous AAV

How so?  Face of the franchise, important leader on and off the ice, sells tickets and jerseys, fan favorite. Chabot signed 8x8 2 years ago. The pandemic is not seen as a re-set but a bump (big one, sure) in the road.  New media deals will raise HRR which will raise the cap significantly over the 8 year span. Plus we know from past experience that the Sens will offer higher back-end-loaded contracts versus signing bonuses.  Look at Chabot's contract.  Similar thing (offset by 2 years) here, with modest increase this season and next, then going up once the escrow drops to normal.

I think 8x8 is enough, and the max they should do. If he doesn’t want that right now, sign him for the 2 or 3 years and negotiate again in a couple of years. Chabot is the best player on the team. I don’t think you to over his AAV. They also shouldn’t have to give out much in signing bonuses considering the stars who just signed with very little in bonus money. 8 million should already be considered an overpay to offset any bonus money

Ideally, I also think you’re right. 8X8 is enough. Chabot probably did more when he got his contract to merit those numbers.

They could structure the deal favourably inTkachuk’s favour to allow for him to make it so he walks away with more money.

That said the Tkachuk have a reputation for being hard to negotiate with. I also don’t feel like any of the Tkachuk will stay with any team out of loyalty and there is a very real chance that Brady could want to walk away from the sens when he’s capable on his first year of FA 4 years from now and therefore I’d avoid a bridge deal and try to get him signed to an 8 year deal.
I wouldn’t put it past Brady to leave the org after that.

In that frame of mine I could understand overpaying him to get those 8 years.

He might walk after that but that’s a great window of time to compete for a cup and the longer he stays a sens, the more he’s likely to want to remain one I could imagine.

If signing bonuses are what holds up a deal because Melnyk then Melnyk can eat a bag of dicks

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Matthew signed on the 24th; Keith held out until the 25th.  Brady will probably sign $8.4M x 8 on Sunday.

That’s a ridiculous AAV

How so?  Face of the franchise, important leader on and off the ice, sells tickets and jerseys, fan favorite. Chabot signed 8x8 2 years ago. The pandemic is not seen as a re-set but a bump (big one, sure) in the road.  New media deals will raise HRR which will raise the cap significantly over the 8 year span. Plus we know from past experience that the Sens will offer higher back-end-loaded contracts versus signing bonuses.  Look at Chabot's contract.  Similar thing (offset by 2 years) here, with modest increase this season and next, then going up once the escrow drops to normal.

I think 8x8 is enough, and the max they should do. If he doesn’t want that right now, sign him for the 2 or 3 years and negotiate again in a couple of years. Chabot is the best player on the team. I don’t think you to over his AAV. They also shouldn’t have to give out much in signing bonuses considering the stars who just signed with very little in bonus money. 8 million should already be considered an overpay to offset any bonus money

Ideally,  I also think you’re right. 8X8 is enough. Chabot probably did more when he got his contract to merit those numbers.

They could structure the deal favourably inTkachuk’s favour to allow for him to make it so he walks away with more money.

That said the Tkachuk have a reputation for being hard to negotiate with. I also don’t feel like any of the Tkachuk will stay with any team out of loyalty and there is a very real chance that Brady could want to walk away from the sens when he’s capable on his first year of FA 4 years from now and therefore I’d avoid a bridge deal and try to get him signed to an 8 year deal.
I wouldn’t put it past Brady to leave the org after that.

In that frame of mine I could understand overpaying him to get those 8 years.

He might walk after that but that’s a great window of time to compete for a cup and the longer he stays a sens, the more he’s  likely to want to remain one I could imagine.

If signing bonuses are what holds up a deal because Melnyk then Melnyk can eat a bag of dicks

I don’t think he or any player should be “loyal” either. He’s free to sign any contract he wants and to dictate his future. I just personally think he’d be making a mistake by not signing 8x8, if it was offered, as that is a lot of money for what he has produced and the kind of player he is. Regardless of structure.

I don’t really think it’s his true wishes anyway. I think his agent and dad would be the ones truly driving things.

For Chabot it would have been much easier to accept the 8x8 as he didn’t grow up rich like tkachuk did. For tkachuk, he can afford to take more gambles and wait on getting what his camp wants.

I don’t think his production will skyrocket to demand something a lot greater than 8 in two or three years, so I don’t think it will be a big deal to sign him to a short bridge. Worst case he would still have a lot of trade value if he turns down a long term deal again. But the sens should also be a lot better in three years which will make it easier to sign him and other players long term.

At-Louis fans don’t have many good things to say about Sanford. Doesn’t look like he did well without being paired with some good position players and his hockey IQ is very questionable. Makes tons of mistakes on the ice.

Classic senators move it seems.
Pierre McGuire sleeping on the job?
Or this is the only thing we could get back.

Either way you look at it this is the sens mismanaging assets again.
They sat on Brown too long when it was obvious (even to me 3 years ago) that this is a player that lacked the necessary jam to be an NHLer and should have been traded before.

Or we will be lucky to recoup a 4th at the trade deadline that we might have to give up if Logan is injured all season.

Of course I could be wrong and Sanford is Brady Tkachuk lite.
I’ll be happy to eat crow if that’s the case

Flo The Action wrote:At-Louis fans don’t have many good things to say about Sanford. Doesn’t look like he did well without being paired with some good position players and his hockey IQ is very questionable. Makes tons of mistakes on the ice.

Classic senators move it seems.
Pierre McGuire sleeping on the job?
Or this is the only thing we could get back.

Either way you look at it this is the sens mismanaging assets again.
They sat on Brown too long when it was obvious (even to me 3 years ago) that this is a player that lacked the necessary jam to be an NHLer and should have been traded before.

Or we will be lucky to recoup a 4th at the trade deadline that we might have to give up if Logan is injured all season.

Of course I could be wrong and Sanford is Brady Tkachuk lite.
I’ll be happy to eat crow if that’s the case

Sanford doesn’t really matter, but he’ll be used as a bottom six winger here. The problem in st Louis was that he was used in the top six and top line at times. He was a useful player in Washington and has some value as a legit nhl player. Logan Brown had no value. They’ve been trying to trade him for months, and he would have been lost for
Nothing after camp. Sanford will likely be traded for a pick at the deadline unless he does really well and they extend him.

Disagree about brown. No way you move him two or three years ago, because at the time he was not passed by other C prospects (Pinto and Norris). His problem has mainly been injuries. He had high upside when he first started playing in the AHL, just Hasn’t stayed healthy or translated the talent to the nhl. If he was healthy he’d be in the nhl by now, even as a third line type of guy who plays on the PP.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Stuetzle-Tierney-Brown
Sanford-White-Paul
Formenton-Pinto-Watson

Chabot-Zub
MDZ-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-Holden

Murray

Certainly a far cry from what we'll see tonight in Winnipeg.

Is it televised?

TSN5, I believe.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:At-Louis fans don’t have many good things to say about Sanford. Doesn’t look like he did well without being paired with some good position players and his hockey IQ is very questionable. Makes tons of mistakes on the ice.

Classic senators move it seems.
Pierre McGuire sleeping on the job?
Or this is the only thing we could get back.

Either way you look at it this is the sens mismanaging assets again.
They sat on Brown too long when it was obvious (even to me 3 years ago) that this is a player that lacked the necessary jam to be an NHLer and should have been traded before.

Or we will be lucky to recoup a 4th at the trade deadline that we might have to give up if Logan is injured all season.

Of course I could be wrong and Sanford is Brady Tkachuk lite.
I’ll be happy to eat crow if that’s the case

Sanford doesn’t really matter, but he’ll be used as a bottom six winger here. The problem in st Louis was that he was used in the top six and top line at times. He was a useful player in Washington and has some value as a legit nhl player. Logan Brown had no value. They’ve been trying to trade him for months, and he would have been lost for
Nothing after camp. Sanford will likely be traded for a pick at the deadline unless he does really well and they extend him.

Disagree about brown. No way you move him two or three years ago, because at the time he was not passed by other C prospects (Pinto and Norris). His problem has mainly been injuries. He had high upside when he first started playing in the AHL, just Hasn’t stayed healthy or translated the talent to the nhl. If he was healthy he’d be in the nhl by now, even as a third line type of guy who plays on the PP.

I remember watching him years ago and I didn’t see a guy that had what it took to make the NHL. He doesn’t have the speed or compete for the game. They could have totally traded him. I remember teams putting a premium in him in trade talks as a piece.

This team can draft but they haven’t done great at managing their assets. It’s either you make it or you bust. They don’t seem to realize their mistakes until it’s too late. It’s an organizational flaw. Other teams do quite well in this department.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:At-Louis fans don’t have many good things to say about Sanford. Doesn’t look like he did well without being paired with some good position players and his hockey IQ is very questionable. Makes tons of mistakes on the ice.

Classic senators move it seems.
Pierre McGuire sleeping on the job?
Or this is the only thing we could get back.

Either way you look at it this is the sens mismanaging assets again.
They sat on Brown too long when it was obvious (even to me 3 years ago) that this is a player that lacked the necessary jam to be an NHLer and should have been traded before.

Or we will be lucky to recoup a 4th at the trade deadline that we might have to give up if Logan is injured all season.

Of course I could be wrong and Sanford is Brady Tkachuk lite.
I’ll be happy to eat crow if that’s the case

Sanford doesn’t really matter, but he’ll be used as a bottom six winger here. The problem in st Louis was that he was used in the top six and top line at times. He was a useful player in Washington and has some value as a legit nhl player. Logan Brown had no value. They’ve been trying to trade him for months, and he would have been lost for
Nothing after camp. Sanford will likely be traded for a pick at the deadline unless he does really well and they extend him.

Disagree about brown. No way you move him two or three years ago, because at the time he was not passed by other C prospects (Pinto and Norris). His problem has mainly been injuries. He had high upside when he first started playing in the AHL, just Hasn’t stayed healthy or translated the talent to the nhl. If he was healthy he’d be in the nhl by now, even as a third line type of guy who plays on the PP.

I remember watching him years ago and I didn’t see a guy that had what it took to make the NHL. He doesn’t have the speed or compete for the game. They could have totally traded him. I remember teams putting a premium in him in trade talks as a piece.

This team can draft but they haven’t done great at managing their assets. It’s either you make it or you bust. They don’t seem to realize their mistakes until it’s too late. It’s an organizational flaw. Other teams do quite well in this department.

You remember teams putting a premium on him in trade talks? Got anything to back that up? He wasn’t going to return a star centre which would have been the only thing to get as we didn’t have any other Cs behind him in our prospect ranks at the time.

Who else who had high value did they wait until they busted to move on from? I don’t really see that. Maybe Ceci could have been traded earlier but he was not a bust. Logan is basically the only bust (so far) in the first round since Dorion became GM other than Bowers who was traded a year after being drafted. Lazar busted but was traded for Formenton

Hot take: Josh Brown is bad at hockey.

Another hot take: Greig scored a beauty but think his style of play won't be liked by the fan base

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Hot take: Josh Brown is bad at hockey.

Another hot take: Greig scored a beauty but think his style of play won't be liked by the fan base

What kind of idiot wouldn’t like his style of play? Maybe you’re right, a lot of this fanbase is soft

Shane Pinto isn’t starting in the AHL. He’s so dominant out there, scored the OT winner and a shootout goal

Ev wrote:Shane Pinto isn’t starting in the AHL. He’s so dominant out there, scored the OT winner and a shootout goal

I was just coming here to post the same thing. I don’t know how he doesn’t slide right into the NHL. He’ll likely be a constant fixture on the top 6 by the end of the season.

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:At-Louis fans don’t have many good things to say about Sanford. Doesn’t look like he did well without being paired with some good position players and his hockey IQ is very questionable. Makes tons of mistakes on the ice.

Classic senators move it seems.
Pierre McGuire sleeping on the job?
Or this is the only thing we could get back.

Either way you look at it this is the sens mismanaging assets again.
They sat on Brown too long when it was obvious (even to me 3 years ago) that this is a player that lacked the necessary jam to be an NHLer and should have been traded before.

Or we will be lucky to recoup a 4th at the trade deadline that we might have to give up if Logan is injured all season.

Of course I could be wrong and Sanford is Brady Tkachuk lite.
I’ll be happy to eat crow if that’s the case

Sanford doesn’t really matter, but he’ll be used as a bottom six winger here. The problem in st Louis was that he was used in the top six and top line at times. He was a useful player in Washington and has some value as a legit nhl player. Logan Brown had no value. They’ve been trying to trade him for months, and he would have been lost for
Nothing after camp. Sanford will likely be traded for a pick at the deadline unless he does really well and they extend him.

Disagree about brown. No way you move him two or three years ago, because at the time he was not passed by other C prospects (Pinto and Norris). His problem has mainly been injuries. He had high upside when he first started playing in the AHL, just Hasn’t stayed healthy or translated the talent to the nhl. If he was healthy he’d be in the nhl by now, even as a third line type of guy who plays on the PP.

I remember watching him years ago and I didn’t see a guy that had what it took to make the NHL. He doesn’t have the speed or compete for the game. They could have totally traded him. I remember teams putting a premium in him in trade talks as a piece.

This team can draft but they haven’t done great at managing their assets. It’s either you make it or you bust. They don’t seem to realize their mistakes until it’s too late. It’s an organizational flaw. Other teams do quite well in this department.

You remember teams putting a premium on him in trade talks? Got anything to back that up? He wasn’t going to return a star centre which would have been the only thing to get as we didn’t have any other Cs behind him in our prospect ranks at the time.

Who else who had high value did they wait until they busted to move on from? I don’t really see that. Maybe Ceci could have been traded earlier but he was not a bust. Logan is basically the only bust (so far) in the first round since Dorion became GM other than Bowers who was traded a year after being drafted. Lazar busted but was traded for Formenton

Im not gonna search posts that were posted years ago by insiders but I do remember that when trades were mentioned with the Ottawa senators and insiders were saying that the names being asked for in return from us were white and Brown.

And yes, Lazar, bowers is still an unknown I guess, brown, white is not a bust but definitely isn’t living up to his billing. Colorado was hot for white.

That Greig goal was pretty much the only thing I saw. Then my wife was done and we settled in to finally watch the rest of the Foundation pilot. That was just filthy. If this fanbase doesn't like his style of play I don't know what to say.

wprager wrote:That Greig goal was pretty much the only thing I saw. Then my wife was done and we settled in to finally watch the rest of the Foundation pilot. That was just filthy. If this fanbase doesn't like his style of play I don't know what to say.

I'm talking about the cross check and game misconduct he received. It was so unnecessary . I think the fan base is going to get sour on his recklessness.  There was zero need to smash Dubois in the face

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

wprager wrote:That Greig goal was pretty much the only thing I saw. Then my wife was dive and we settled in to finally watch the rest of the Foundation pilot. That was just filthy. If this fanbase doesn't like his style of play I don't know what to say.

I'm talking about the cross check and game misconduct he received. It was so unnecessary . I think the fan base is going to get sour on his recklessness.  There was zero need to smash Dubois in the face

Nah