Prospecting Prospect - End of Season 18/19

Lagoon wrote:

wprager wrote:The problem is that I would want another 1st rounder and would prefer to upgrade our Islanders pick. For example, trade 1st plus Islanders pick for 2nd and another top 5 pick.  But as far as I know no other team has multiple 1st round picks.

So then you have to look for a prospect or better player. I would not want to give up a potential generational player for veteran, and judging other teams' prospects of extremely difficult (we got Brannstrom for Stone and, apparently, the Vegans didn't want to give him to us).

Lots of teams have multiple 1st rounders, Minnesota, Anaheim, Rangers and Devils are 4 I know of for sure. Might be one more.

Sorry, I thought it would be obvious I was talking about lottery picks.

If you are trading the 1st overall for the 2nd you are dealing with another lottery team. There is only one team with two such picks.

Edit: Devil's have 6 and 10.

If the Devils' #6 moves to #2, would we trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #10?

wprager wrote:If the Devils' #6 moves to #2, would we trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #10?

No

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:If the Devils' #6 moves to #2, would we trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #10?

No

Exactly. Like I said initially, they would never trade #1.

Buuuut....

Would you trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #6?

I believe the lottery is just for the top 3 so if the Devils hold #2 and we have #1, they're other pick is #10, #6 or #3. I think trading #1 plus #21 for #2 and #3 is close to a no-brainer she I also don't think Jersey would be at all interested, so not really worth considering it.

Overall, I think the only leverage would be over Montreal because of Lafrenier bring a francophone. But Montreal does not have a second lottery pick. So this whole discussion is trending to being moot.

So let's get back to prospects. Would you trade #1 plus #21 for #2 plus prospect from the Habs farm?

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:If the Devils' #6 moves to #2, would we trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #10?

No

Exactly. Like I said initially, they would never trade #1.

Buuuut....

Would you trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #6?

I believe the lottery is just for the top 3 so if the Devils hold #2 and we have #1, they're other pick is #10, #6 or #3. I think trading #1 plus #21 for #2 and #3 is close to a no-brainer she I also don't think Jersey would be at all interested, so not really worth considering it.

Overall, I think the only leverage would be over Montreal because of Lafrenier bring a francophone. But Montreal does not have a second lottery pick. So this whole discussion is trending to being moot.

So let's get back to prospects. Would you trade #1 plus #21 for #2 plus prospect from the Habs farm?

I don't think you'd have to include the 21st in any trade to drop one.

I’m dropping out of today’s dialogue. It’s been a duster.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:If the Devils' #6 moves to #2, would we trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #10?

No

Exactly. Like I said initially, they would never trade #1.

Buuuut....

Would you trade #1 and #21 for #2 and #6?

I believe the lottery is just for the top 3 so if the Devils hold #2 and we have #1, they're other pick is #10, #6 or #3. I think trading #1 plus #21 for #2 and #3 is close to a no-brainer she I also don't think Jersey would be at all interested, so not really worth considering it.

Overall, I think the only leverage would be over Montreal because of Lafrenier bring a francophone. But Montreal does not have a second lottery pick. So this whole discussion is trending to being moot.

So let's get back to prospects. Would you trade #1 plus #21 for #2 plus prospect from the Habs farm?

I don't think you'd have to include the 21st in any trade to drop one.

But if you read my initial response to this line I said that in any trade I would want another first or an upgrade of the Islander's pick to another top-10 or better.

So let's leave the Islanders' pick out of this. Only the Devils can hold #2 and another first rounder. Would you trade #1 for #2 and #6? We could be drafting Byfield, Sanderson, Perfetti *plus* the Isles pick. Tempting. #1 for #2 and #10? Probably not.

I certainly don't think you trade #1 for #2 plus someone in the top-half of the second round (we already have 3 second rounders).

So either #6 overall or a prospect. And I still find it very difficult to properly assess other teams' prospects.

I'd keep Lafreniere over every other scenario to be honest

Ev wrote:I'd keep Lafreniere over every other scenario to be honest

That was my initial (gut feel/intuition) take.

I don't know. I'm really tempted. truth be told, we don't really have a legitimate top-line C prospect. Laf will not answer that. if you do have the 1st and the 4rth or 5th or 6th you have to probably draft Perfetti or Rossi to go with Laf. Which is not bad but I'm not sure I want to pass by on Byfield especially if it means adding another top 6 pick. you're not drafting 3 guys in the top 6? plus are likely to try and move up in the draft from the isles pick?
why the hell would you not do that?

Do you know the comparison to that kind of move looks like? the trade that sent Lindros to the flyers for a boatload of grade A assets. You're also hedging your bets. To me, that's just too good to pass up in this draft.

Byfield, Perfetti/Rossi +Raymond/Holtz/Drysdale?(depending on if you want to add a top-scoring winger) and god knows how high you can move that isles pick and who you can draft?
this is how you put together a Stanley cup contender.
i'm licking my chops.

Rossi can be a 1C in the NHL. So can Stuetzle and Byfield. And Perfetti, Holtz and Lundell.

I'll obviously be pissed if we get the 5th and 6th picks but we're walking out of the draft with two amazing players. Perfetti was second in OHL scoring this year and Rossi 1st. Those guys may go 5th and lower. Think about that for a second.

According to TSN:

Rossi's comparable - Nick Backstrom
Perfetti's comparable - Artemi Panarin

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Rossi can be a 1C in the NHL. So can Stuetzle and Byfield. And Perfetti, Holtz and Lundell.

I'll obviously be pissed if we get the 5th and 6th picks but we're walking out of the draft with two amazing players. Perfetti was second in OHL scoring this year and Rossi 1st. Those guys may go 5th and lower. Think about that for a second.

According to TSN:

Rossi's comparable - Nick Backstrom
Perfetti's comparable - Artemi Panarin

which is why I'd like them both as well as Byfield! can't have too many of that type of player!

Todd White had 73 points centering Little and some guy named Kovalchuk.  I think Norris wouldn't have a problem centering Lafrenier and Tkachuk.

There is more than one way to form a top line.

wprager wrote:Todd White had 73 points centering Little and some guy named Kovalchuk.  I think Norris wouldn't have a problem centering Lafrenier and Tkachuk.

There is more than one way to form a top line.

yeah, and did Todd white win a cup with that line? it's not because you can that it's better.

if you give me the choice between a Malkin and Pastrnak in a draft i'm gonna go with Malkin every time.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Rossi can be a 1C in the NHL. So can Stuetzle and Byfield. And Perfetti, Holtz and Lundell.

I'll obviously be pissed if we get the 5th and 6th picks but we're walking out of the draft with two amazing players. Perfetti was second in OHL scoring this year and Rossi 1st. Those guys may go 5th and lower. Think about that for a second.

According to TSN:

Rossi's comparable - Nick Backstrom
Perfetti's comparable - Artemi Panarin

I know you are just saying we don’t know what threes players can become, but Rossi is my love child. Perfetti thinks the game just as well if not better, but he’s a lazy Donkey. Rossi won’t stop working for a single second. I want him desperately with our second 1st.

Perfetti will be a perfect 2C in 4-5 years. Perfect. PP stud.

Holtz is the best bulger in the draft. Love him.

Stutzle won’t be a C, he isn’t already.

Lundell is a two-way beast. Much like Pinto but better in all aspects.

Byfield is a must for us, unless we land #1.

Those are my quick takes.

Well Malkin also had Crosby. Without Crosby he has zero Olympic she World Cup gold medals.

Yes, Crosby is a center but the fact that he's a generational talent had even not to do with it.

Is Toews a generational "talent" see center? My guy yes me no. He's an exceptional leader and pushed himself well beyond where they alone would take him. From what I've seen of Lafrenier he has a similar internal drive.

Anyhow, I think we're taking in circles. Whoever gets the 1st overall will do well to take him and not even give any trade possibilities a second's thought.

My top-10 in order.

1. Laf
2. Byfield
3. Stutzle
4. Raymond
5. Rossi
6. Drysdale
--------
7. Perfetti
8. Holtz
9. Lundell
10. Sanderson

Lagoon wrote:

Ev wrote:IMO this is how I'd like the Sens to draft as of today. As I research more that may change.

1 - Lafreniere
2 - Byfield
3 - Stutzle
4 - Raymond
5 - Drysdale
6 -  Perfetti

1 - Lafreniere
2 - Byfield
—————————————-
3 - Raymond (if we already got Byfield)
4 - Rossi (switch with Raymond if we didn’t get Byfield)
5 - Stutzle
—————————————-
6 - Drysdale
7 - Holtz
8 - Perfetti
——————————————
9 - Lundell
10 - Askarov

My separations mean you absolutely can not take someone from the lower tier until all the players above are selected. I can make exceptions for Drysdale and Askarov however as they are head and shoulders the best available at their position and although organizational needs shouldn’t matter, it does for some.

I’m sticking with this for now, but am liking Holtz more and more with every piece of footage I review. He scores at an insane clip as an U18 in the SHL. Only Naslund and Forsberg were higher since forever. I still can’t put him into the 3-5 tier however.

People trying to say Quinn is better than Holtz as a player need to stop. I get the comparison because goals are what they do, but come on.