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Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

when is the next lockout?

tim1_2 wrote:Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

I think if that rumour is true, and I don't think it is personally, the Sens will pay the signing bonus + they'll make the contract lockout proof.

I don't think that's the issue. If I'm Mark Stone, i say no to that offer. Sorry, I love Ottawa, hate the fool owner, but we can go for it in a few years, maybe earlier, but I'm not leaving 20 million on the table in hopes that I'm healthy at 32 to recoup the 20+ million. No can do.

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

I think if that rumour is true, and I don't think it is personally, the Sens will pay the signing bonus + they'll make the contract lockout proof.

I don't think that's the issue.  If I'm Mark Stone, i say no to that offer.  Sorry, I love Ottawa, hate the fool owner, but we can go for it in a few years, maybe earlier, but I'm not leaving 20 million on the table in hopes that I'm healthy at 32 to recoup the 20+ million.  No can do.

if it the offer was true, and who knows since nobody else is reporting that, then it would breakdown as such:

5 years - 10.5 million = total $52.50 million

If he was to sign elsewhere, he can only sign for 7 years so let's hypothetically say:

7 years - 9 million = total $63 million

$63 million - $52.5 million = $10.5 million

Therefore, if he took that Ottawa offer, he would need to have faith that he could at least sign for $10.5 million over two years after the five year deal expires, which is $5.25 million per year. The cap would be much larger in five years, and if he doesn't get injured severely he would have no issue making that kind of money at age 32.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:when is the next lockout?

The CBA expires after the 21-22 season, but the NHL or NHLPA can opt out after this year. I don't think either party will opt out, but what do I know....

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

I think if that rumour is true, and I don't think it is personally, the Sens will pay the signing bonus + they'll make the contract lockout proof.

I don't think that's the issue.  If I'm Mark Stone, i say no to that offer.  Sorry, I love Ottawa, hate the fool owner, but we can go for it in a few years, maybe earlier, but I'm not leaving 20 million on the table in hopes that I'm healthy at 32 to recoup the 20+ million.  No can do.

if it the offer was true, and who knows since nobody else is reporting that, then it would breakdown as such:

5 years - 10.5 million = total $52.50 million

If he was to sign elsewhere, he can only sign for 7 years so let's hypothetically say:

7 years - 9 million = total $63 million

$63 million - $52.5 million = $10.5 million

Therefore, if he took that Ottawa offer, he would need to have faith that he could at least sign for $10.5 million over two years after the five year deal expires, which is $5.25 million per year. The cap would be much larger in five years, and if he doesn't get injured severely he would have no issue making that kind of money at age 32.

There's massive risk of injury though. Plus, he could easily seek out the 8th year with the team acquiring him.

Let's say 7 years though at 9.5 = 66.5

Ottawa is offering 52.5, that's still 14 million dollars - that is a TON of GUARANTEED money to leave on the table. IF he's healthy at the end of that contract, he could easily sign another pretty big contract. But that's a pretty huge roll of the dice.

PTFlea wrote:

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

I think if that rumour is true, and I don't think it is personally, the Sens will pay the signing bonus + they'll make the contract lockout proof.

I don't think that's the issue.  If I'm Mark Stone, i say no to that offer.  Sorry, I love Ottawa, hate the fool owner, but we can go for it in a few years, maybe earlier, but I'm not leaving 20 million on the table in hopes that I'm healthy at 32 to recoup the 20+ million.  No can do.

if it the offer was true, and who knows since nobody else is reporting that, then it would breakdown as such:

5 years - 10.5 million = total $52.50 million

If he was to sign elsewhere, he can only sign for 7 years so let's hypothetically say:

7 years - 9 million = total $63 million

$63 million - $52.5 million = $10.5 million

Therefore, if he took that Ottawa offer, he would need to have faith that he could at least sign for $10.5 million over two years after the five year deal expires, which is $5.25 million per year. The cap would be much larger in five years, and if he doesn't get injured severely he would have no issue making that kind of money at age 32.

There's massive risk of injury though.  Plus, he could easily seek out the 8th year with the team acquiring him.  

Let's say 7 years though at 9.5 = 66.5

Ottawa is offering 52.5, that's still 14 million dollars - that is a TON of GUARANTEED money to leave on the table.  IF he's healthy at the end of that contract, he could easily sign another pretty big contract.  But that's a pretty huge roll of the dice.

It is a bit of a gamble, I just wanted to lay out the math. At age 32, if he is still playing well, he would be able to earn at least $6 million long term.

If he takes 8 years today, he might not be able to make as much long term. Let's see what happens I guess.

Matthews just took 5 years as well so maybe that changes something here for other free agents.

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Obviously term and dollars are big factors, and I think the other one that kills the Sens is the whole signing bonus issue.

I think if that rumour is true, and I don't think it is personally, the Sens will pay the signing bonus + they'll make the contract lockout proof.

I don't think that's the issue.  If I'm Mark Stone, i say no to that offer.  Sorry, I love Ottawa, hate the fool owner, but we can go for it in a few years, maybe earlier, but I'm not leaving 20 million on the table in hopes that I'm healthy at 32 to recoup the 20+ million.  No can do.

if it the offer was true, and who knows since nobody else is reporting that, then it would breakdown as such:

5 years - 10.5 million = total $52.50 million

If he was to sign elsewhere, he can only sign for 7 years so let's hypothetically say:

7 years - 9 million = total $63 million

$63 million - $52.5 million = $10.5 million

Therefore, if he took that Ottawa offer, he would need to have faith that he could at least sign for $10.5 million over two years after the five year deal expires, which is $5.25 million per year. The cap would be much larger in five years, and if he doesn't get injured severely he would have no issue making that kind of money at age 32.

There's massive risk of injury though.  Plus, he could easily seek out the 8th year with the team acquiring him.  

Let's say 7 years though at 9.5 = 66.5

Ottawa is offering 52.5, that's still 14 million dollars - that is a TON of GUARANTEED money to leave on the table.  IF he's healthy at the end of that contract, he could easily sign another pretty big contract.  But that's a pretty huge roll of the dice.

It is a bit of a gamble, I just wanted to lay out the math. At age 32, if he is still playing well, he would be able to earn at least $6 million long term.

If he takes 8 years today, he might not be able to make as much long term. Let's see what happens I guess.

Matthews just took 5 years as well so maybe that changes something here for other free agents.

man...I really hope so. My personal guy feeling is that's a quick and easy no from Stone, but I'd really love to be wrong.

I think if anyone was going to be signed, it would've been done by now. I would love to be wrong though. I guess a somewhat recent comparable is when Stamkos went right into free agency before resigning with Tampa...but I feel like that was an entirely different situation.

tim1_2 wrote:I think if anyone was going to be signed, it would've been done by now.  I would love to be wrong though.  I guess a somewhat recent comparable is when Stamkos went right into free agency before resigning with Tampa...but I feel like that was an entirely different situation.

Definitely. For it to have reached this late in the game, there's really no chance IMO. Stone's side is probably saying they want 9.5 X 8 or 10 X 7 and not to come to them with any other offer than that, including signing bonuses and lockout protection.

Duchene probably has a slightly lower ask, but the agents are probably just saying if you're not willing to pay what we're asking there won't be any negotiations at all. None. We're going to market.

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:I think if anyone was going to be signed, it would've been done by now.  I would love to be wrong though.  I guess a somewhat recent comparable is when Stamkos went right into free agency before resigning with Tampa...but I feel like that was an entirely different situation.

Definitely.  For it to have reached this late in the game, there's really no chance IMO.  Stone's side is probably saying they want 9.5 X 8 or 10 X 7 and not to come to them with any other offer than that, including signing bonuses and lockout protection.

Duchene probably has a slightly lower ask, but the agents are probably just saying if you're not willing to pay what we're asking there won't be any negotiations at all.  None.  We're going to market.

if there was no chance, there would be no current negotiations.

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:I think if anyone was going to be signed, it would've been done by now.  I would love to be wrong though.  I guess a somewhat recent comparable is when Stamkos went right into free agency before resigning with Tampa...but I feel like that was an entirely different situation.

Definitely.  For it to have reached this late in the game, there's really no chance IMO.  Stone's side is probably saying they want 9.5 X 8 or 10 X 7 and not to come to them with any other offer than that, including signing bonuses and lockout protection.

Duchene probably has a slightly lower ask, but the agents are probably just saying if you're not willing to pay what we're asking there won't be any negotiations at all.  None.  We're going to market.

if there was no chance, there would be no current negotiations.

I really don't think there are negotiations, just one camp telling the other exactly what they want for the last time.

PTFlea wrote:

Ev wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:I think if anyone was going to be signed, it would've been done by now.  I would love to be wrong though.  I guess a somewhat recent comparable is when Stamkos went right into free agency before resigning with Tampa...but I feel like that was an entirely different situation.

Definitely.  For it to have reached this late in the game, there's really no chance IMO.  Stone's side is probably saying they want 9.5 X 8 or 10 X 7 and not to come to them with any other offer than that, including signing bonuses and lockout protection.

Duchene probably has a slightly lower ask, but the agents are probably just saying if you're not willing to pay what we're asking there won't be any negotiations at all.  None.  We're going to market.

if there was no chance, there would be no current negotiations.

I really don't think there are negotiations, just one camp telling the other exactly what they want for the last time.

Who knows, it's just all speculation. Nobody knows what's going on internally right now. I bet they are going back and forth on numbers though.

I expect Duchene to be traded tomorrow. Games are becoming increasingly pivotal in the West and standings may come down to a few points. Dorion was scheduled to meet with his scouts this AM to discuss options. That leaves this afternoon and tonight to negotiate a trade.

With the Stone decision looming and other players likely to be traded, Dorion should be setting the market so he can focus on other deals.

Bruce Garrioch reporting the "Sens have tabled a serious offer to Stone."

https://www.tsn.ca/report-sens-table-serious-offer-to-stone-1.1260010

The pessimistic view is that this is just PR from the Sens to show they tried before they deal him.

Stone will be traded. The money is there(the bonus aren’t) but I’m starting to think Stone just plainly doesn’t want to play for Ottawa(Melnyk). I do not blame him. Sell the team Donkey Chapeau!

Flo The Action wrote:Stone will be traded. The money is there(the bonus aren’t) but I’m starting to think Stone just plainly doesn’t want to play for Ottawa(Melnyk). I do not blame him. Sell the team Donkey Chapeau!

We literally have no clue what money or bonuses have been offered. Let’s stop speculating and wait until something actually happens. There has been no information leaked about this situation for good reason

Anything from Garrioch I take with a grain of salt. He had become a mouthpiece for the management. But others have also mentioned the increased push (at the same time as saying Duchene is being shipped around). I'm cautiously optimistic. I just hope they trade Dzingel. He's Hoffman with a smile. Zero defensive awareness.