2017 Sens Off-Season

They also have another legit 20-goal, 50-pt player they just re-signed to an 8-year $60+M contract. Weird.

Sorry about flipping White on the wrong side. MacArthur is a better option than Smith; he's my 2nd line left winger. Smith is good on the third line, killing penalties and sliding up in needed. Can't go into the season expecting CMac to have another concussion. You think Boston does that with Bergeron? And if something does happen, you promote Smith and see what's out there. Until then you keep developing your prospects.

tim1_2 wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:We are ok on the left (Hoff, CMac, Smith, Dzingel, White, Paul).

I think white plays C and RW as for all the other names I think he'd be an upgrade in the LW on the second line.
There's no knowing if mac will last or be as effective as past years and I'd rather have smith not playing on the top 2 lines. Dzingel hasn't proven he should be a top 6. Do we have depth on the LW? Yes. Do we have a sure Dung top 6? No

Yeah, White is C and RW.  The only guys we should be counting on for LW is Hoff and Smith, with CMac for the 3rd line.  Anyway, positions can ALWAYS be upgraded.  The only reasons the Caps dealt this guy is because they're in cap hell.  He's a legit 20 goal/50 point guy that has an entirely reasonable cap hit ($4.6M) for two more seasons. He's exactly the type of guy we should be looking to bring in if we're serious about "winning now".  He even has 15 playoff points in 25 games over the past two seasons.

Totally agree.

wprager wrote:Sorry about flipping White on the wrong side.  MacArthur is a better option than Smith; he's my 2nd line left winger. Smith is good on the third line, killing penalties and sliding up in needed. Can't go into the season expecting CMac to have another concussion. You think Boston does that with Bergeron?  And if something does happen, you promote Smith and see what's out there. Until then you keep developing your prospects.

I think you can always go into the season thinking that Cmac is fragile. I think you have to at this point. Until he plays a full year without getting hurt in the brain it's he GM's duty to have a contingent plan. Especially after how it happened last year.

Don't get me wrong, no one was happier than me about how Cmac played last year when he came back. He was great and I would have him play the second line over smith. But I'd also like an upgrade.

it looks to me like we have a bunch of 3rd liners vying for that 2nd line LW spot. We need more credible offence on that second line. Maybe Dzingel can take the job on but he hasn't shown that yet and I have my doubts he will.
It's too bad we don't have what it takes to make a trade because I would gladly take JVR right now with an extention.

Ideally MacArthur would be playing on the third line with pageau and smith, perhaps smith playing off wing, but nope...again no.

At least a MUCH improved bottom six and potentially a better pk

The Sens pretty much standing pat and losing Methot doesn't seem like a team looking to compete NOW.  You don't get to the Conference Final and think that you can get further by subtracting Methot, bringing in a 3rd/4th liner and pushing young guys into first year roles in top 4 D and top 6 forward positions.

Teams that get that close need to improve their roster not just expect no one else around them will improve and that the team will just BE better by virtue of having made it that far last season.

Prove me wrong Sens.  Prove me wrong.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:The Sens pretty much standing pat and losing Methot doesn't seem like a team looking to compete NOW.  You don't get to the Conference Final and think that you can get further by subtracting Methot, bringing in a 3rd/4th liner and pushing young guys into first year roles in top 4 D and top 6 forward positions.

Teams that get that close need to improve their roster not just expect no one else around them will improve and that the team will just BE better by virtue of having made it that far last season.

Prove me wrong Sens.  Prove me wrong.

I agree, we'll see if they do anything else, but I agree this could be a problem. Chabot has the potential to be really good though.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:The Sens pretty much standing pat and losing Methot doesn't seem like a team looking to compete NOW.  You don't get to the Conference Final and think that you can get further by subtracting Methot, bringing in a 3rd/4th liner and pushing young guys into first year roles in top 4 D and top 6 forward positions.

Teams that get that close need to improve their roster not just expect no one else around them will improve and that the team will just BE better by virtue of having made it that far last season.

Prove me wrong Sens.  Prove me wrong.

I haven't posted in a few days but must say that I couldn't agree more with the above post.

Honestly I'd much rather have two prospects (Paul and White) in the lineup over Burrows and Thompson with that money spent on a partner for Karlsson. I do not understand what Dorion is trying to do and how he thinks we can be more competitive by icing a worse team. So far this off-season:

Out: Methot ($4.9M), Neil ($1.9M), Kelly ($900K), Wingels, Stalberg (partial AAV due to trade)
In: Thompson ($1.65M) + Pageau (new contract ~$3M?) + Dzingel (new contract ~ $1.25M?) + Condon (new contract) + Pyatt (new contract)

So in theory, the money out covers the money in to ensure the team has 'depth' but doesn't address the fact that we're down a top-two defenceman.

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
MacArthur-Brass-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Burrows
Dzingel-Thompson-Pyatt
Extra: White

Phaneuf-Karlsson
Claesson-Ceci
Boro-Wideman
Extra: Chabot

So what value do Burrows or Thompson have over say Paul and White? I keep telling myself that a trade is coming. Smith IMO is expendable in a 3rd line role and Dzingel is a waste on the 4th line. Logan Brown may be a half season away from being a bust (apparently had an awful camp), Nick Paul appears ready to make the jump, Perron apparently had a strong camp, Chlapik was the most improved player Dorion/Lee had seen in the last 5-10 years, White may need half a season in the AHL but will probably start in Ottawa, and it sounds like Harpur, Jaros, Wolanin and Englund can all make the NHL jump in the next 1-3 years.

So with that said, we have some pretty great defensive prospects, some under-utilized forwards, a 1st rd pick that could very well bust (value is still somewhat high) and no roster spots for a prospect to break in. I honestly have no idea what Dorion is doing and why he's handing out multi-year, above-market deals to players on the decline while making it next to impossible for someone to break into the lineup on the cheap.

We are not down a top 2 defenseman. Marc Methot was never that type of d-man. Just because he played next to Karlsson doesn't make him a Top 2 D. We will be fine in that regard. Methot is easily replaceable.

As for "what Dorion is doing", I think it's pretty obvious. Getting useful veterans like Burrows (who is extremely underrated) to help insulate the prospects like White and Dzingel etc is a smart move. Did you not just witness the last two Cup winning teams have guys like Kunitz and Cullen? Exactly the same thing here.

I love the direction we are going and our team is much better than it was for 75% of last season with the additions of MacArthur, Burrows, Thompson, and potentially Stalberg.

Ev wrote:We are not down a top 2 defenseman. Marc Methot was never that type of d-man. Just because he played next to Karlsson doesn't make him a Top 2 D. We will be fine in that regard. Methot is easily replaceable.

As for "what Dorion is doing", I think it's pretty obvious. Getting useful veterans like Burrows (who is extremely underrated) to help insulate the prospects like White and Dzingel etc is a smart move. Did you not just witness the last two Cup winning teams have guys like Kunitz and Cullen? Exactly the same thing here.

I love the direction we are going and our team is much better than it was for 75% of last season with the additions of MacArthur, Burrows, Thompson, and potentially Stalberg.

So you're telling me that you think Claesson can keep up to Crosby the same way Methot did? I'm all for giving guys like Claesson a chance, but when it comes down to playing against teams like Washington or Pittsburgh he won't be nearly as effective of a player. I am okay with him in my second pairing, but that means Phaneuf will be playing the majority of his minutes with Karlsson, and will be more relied on to play PK minutes with Methot gone. I am not sour that we lost Methot - I am concerned that our internal options don't replace what Methot brings to the table. Can a pairing of Claesson-Ceci shut down a Malkin line? Or an Oshie line? Probably not.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:We are not down a top 2 defenseman. Marc Methot was never that type of d-man. Just because he played next to Karlsson doesn't make him a Top 2 D. We will be fine in that regard. Methot is easily replaceable.

As for "what Dorion is doing", I think it's pretty obvious. Getting useful veterans like Burrows (who is extremely underrated) to help insulate the prospects like White and Dzingel etc is a smart move. Did you not just witness the last two Cup winning teams have guys like Kunitz and Cullen? Exactly the same thing here.

I love the direction we are going and our team is much better than it was for 75% of last season with the additions of MacArthur, Burrows, Thompson, and potentially Stalberg.

So you're telling me that you think Claesson can keep up to Crosby the same way Methot did? I'm all for giving guys like Claesson a chance, but when it comes down to playing against teams like Washington or Pittsburgh he won't be nearly as effective of a player. I am okay with him in my second pairing, but that means Phaneuf will be playing the majority of his minutes with Karlsson, and will be more relied on to play PK minutes with Methot gone. I am not sour that we lost Methot - I am concerned that our internal options don't replace what Methot brings to the table. Can a pairing of Claesson-Ceci shut down a Malkin line? Or an Oshie line? Probably not.

Yes. Claesson, Phaneuf, whoever it is. I don't care who is next to Karlsson. Phaneuf-Ceci were our shutdown pair, the guy next to Karlsson doesn't have to be. Methot played significantly less minutes than all of the other Top 4 d-men.

Pittsburgh didn't have one d-man like Methot.

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:We are not down a top 2 defenseman. Marc Methot was never that type of d-man. Just because he played next to Karlsson doesn't make him a Top 2 D. We will be fine in that regard. Methot is easily replaceable.

As for "what Dorion is doing", I think it's pretty obvious. Getting useful veterans like Burrows (who is extremely underrated) to help insulate the prospects like White and Dzingel etc is a smart move. Did you not just witness the last two Cup winning teams have guys like Kunitz and Cullen? Exactly the same thing here.

I love the direction we are going and our team is much better than it was for 75% of last season with the additions of MacArthur, Burrows, Thompson, and potentially Stalberg.

So you're telling me that you think Claesson can keep up to Crosby the same way Methot did? I'm all for giving guys like Claesson a chance, but when it comes down to playing against teams like Washington or Pittsburgh he won't be nearly as effective of a player. I am okay with him in my second pairing, but that means Phaneuf will be playing the majority of his minutes with Karlsson, and will be more relied on to play PK minutes with Methot gone. I am not sour that we lost Methot - I am concerned that our internal options don't replace what Methot brings to the table. Can a pairing of Claesson-Ceci shut down a Malkin line? Or an Oshie line? Probably not.

Yes. Claesson, Phaneuf, whoever it is. I don't care who is next to Karlsson. Phaneuf-Ceci were our shutdown pair, the guy next to Karlsson doesn't have to be. Methot played significantly less minutes than all of the other Top 4 d-men.

Pittsburgh didn't have one d-man like Methot.

We didn't have one forward like Crosby, Malkin or Kessel

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:We are not down a top 2 defenseman. Marc Methot was never that type of d-man. Just because he played next to Karlsson doesn't make him a Top 2 D. We will be fine in that regard. Methot is easily replaceable.

As for "what Dorion is doing", I think it's pretty obvious. Getting useful veterans like Burrows (who is extremely underrated) to help insulate the prospects like White and Dzingel etc is a smart move. Did you not just witness the last two Cup winning teams have guys like Kunitz and Cullen? Exactly the same thing here.

I love the direction we are going and our team is much better than it was for 75% of last season with the additions of MacArthur, Burrows, Thompson, and potentially Stalberg.

So you're telling me that you think Claesson can keep up to Crosby the same way Methot did? I'm all for giving guys like Claesson a chance, but when it comes down to playing against teams like Washington or Pittsburgh he won't be nearly as effective of a player. I am okay with him in my second pairing, but that means Phaneuf will be playing the majority of his minutes with Karlsson, and will be more relied on to play PK minutes with Methot gone. I am not sour that we lost Methot - I am concerned that our internal options don't replace what Methot brings to the table. Can a pairing of Claesson-Ceci shut down a Malkin line? Or an Oshie line? Probably not.

Yes. Claesson, Phaneuf, whoever it is. I don't care who is next to Karlsson. Phaneuf-Ceci were our shutdown pair, the guy next to Karlsson doesn't have to be. Methot played significantly less minutes than all of the other Top 4 d-men.

Pittsburgh didn't have one d-man like Methot.

We didn't have one forward like Crosby, Malkin or Kessel

His name is Erik Karlsson

In not going to minimize losing Methot. His ice time, while lower than Karlsson,
Ceci and Phaneuf was still significantly higher than Claesson. Freddy would have to increase his per game ice time by nearly 50% to take up the slack. And, Franky, we don't even know of he can keep up his old ice time for a full schedule. 33 games is a nice number but it's not 82.

That said, we aren't going to ask one guy to maker up the slack. They may even go with 7D to start.

Up front we lost Kelly, Neil, Wingels and possibly Stalberg. We are bringing in White and Thompsn, with McCormick as the first callup.

I don't think we got worse at all.

Tampa traded away Drouin for a rookie defenseman. I'm still not convinced Stamkos will be ever back to 100% (they removed a rib fuKmr crying out loud, that's gotta mess around with his release). They brought in Kunitz and Girardi. They re-signed Conacher!

In short, I don't think they have improved all that much. And if Vasilevski gets hurt, Budaj is the backup.

Montreal replaced a hard nosed, scoring winger with Drouin. They lost Markov (assuming), Beaulieu, Emelin and replaced them with Alzner. They need a center and a mobile defenseman, so they will probably sign Jagr.

Off season isn't over yet but they have gotten worse.

Sabres will be better assuming Eichel stays healthy. But other than that, are they better? Doa Pomminville have much left?

Leafs got better, but by how much is not clear. Marleau will take someone else's minutes so it's not a straight addition. Plus can Marleau keep it up? Still not sold on their goaltending and defense. Hainsey replaces Polak is probably a wash.