Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

wprager wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Though the Sens won last night, they won't be Pitt in a 7 game series. I don't think they'd be Washington either. So is it worthwhile to sign White? Yes, it helps your chances. But I don't think White will be that perennial player that pushes them over the top.

Soft spots in the lineup:
- top six (Dzingel, Smith better suited to 3rd line)
- 2nd pairing (Phaneuf-Ceci are pretty awful)
- bottom six (Pyatt probably a 4th liner, Kelly too slow, Wingels doesn't bring much)

Not all soft-spots need to be fixed, naturally, and some are not big problems (e.g. Wingels).  However:

- With Methot injured we will, hopefully, get a chance to see Ceci with a different partner; maybe it will help
- Certainly Claesson provides more offense (Karlsson's WOWY numbers show that pretty emphatically)
- Ryan revving up and Stone coming back will bolster the top six (Stone in, Hoffman moved up, pushes Burrows down -- Pyatt replaces Wingels)
- this opens a spot for White to replace Kelly

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan
Dzingel-Pageau-Burrows
Pyatt-White-Stalberg


Maybe flip Smith/Hoffman to give the top line a little better size, depending on opposition.  Dzingel will do better playing against softer opposition.  That 4th line will be very fast.  Other than Smith still being in the top six, that's a solid roster.

I don't see how you start white at center. Hes likely gonna start his NHL career on the wing. Might end up being a winger too.

There are plus and minuses to having white come up and play. Could rest a few guys as we edge towards the playoffs. I also wouldn't mind too much if we don't overtake the habs and start by facing the leafs so a game here and there loss won't hurt too much and he might be a nice surprise. I doubt he'd get any playoff action unless he's amazing off the bat which is highly unlikely.

On the other hand I'd rather see him in bingo so he sees his first pro games at a lower level and sees that the level of competition is pretty hard down there too.
Wouldn't mind if we didn't lose a year off his ELC and I think it's also about sending a message about who controls the faith of players.

Nice lines, but I think it's pretty clear White won't be signing an ELC for this year.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Though the Sens won last night, they won't be Pitt in a 7 game series. I don't think they'd be Washington either. So is it worthwhile to sign White? Yes, it helps your chances. But I don't think White will be that perennial player that pushes them over the top.

Soft spots in the lineup:
- top six (Dzingel, Smith better suited to 3rd line)
- 2nd pairing (Phaneuf-Ceci are pretty awful)
- bottom six (Pyatt probably a 4th liner, Kelly too slow, Wingels doesn't bring much)

Not all soft-spots need to be fixed, naturally, and some are not big problems (e.g. Wingels).  However:

- With Methot injured we will, hopefully, get a chance to see Ceci with a different partner; maybe it will help
- Certainly Claesson provides more offense (Karlsson's WOWY numbers show that pretty emphatically)
- Ryan revving up and Stone coming back will bolster the top six (Stone in, Hoffman moved up, pushes Burrows down -- Pyatt replaces Wingels)
- this opens a spot for White to replace Kelly

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan
Dzingel-Pageau-Burrows
Pyatt-White-Stalberg


Maybe flip Smith/Hoffman to give the top line a little better size, depending on opposition.  Dzingel will do better playing against softer opposition.  That 4th line will be very fast.  Other than Smith still being in the top six, that's a solid roster.

I don't see how you start white at center. Hes likely gonna start his NHL career on the wing. Might end up being a winger too.

There are plus and minuses to having white come up and play. Could rest a few guys as we edge towards the playoffs. I also wouldn't mind too much if we don't overtake the habs and start by facing the leafs so a game here and there loss won't hurt too much and he might be a nice surprise. I doubt he'd get any playoff action unless he's amazing off the bat which is highly unlikely.

On the other hand I'd rather see him in bingo so he sees his first pro games at a lower level and sees that the level of competition is pretty hard down there too.
Wouldn't mind if we didn't lose a year off his ELC and I think it's also about sending a message about who controls the faith of players.

My thoughts on the Sens lines next year:

Hoffman-Turris-Ryan
Dzingel-Brassard-Burrows
Smith-Pageau-Stone
McCormick-White-Pyatt
Extra: Paul

wprager wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Though the Sens won last night, they won't be Pitt in a 7 game series. I don't think they'd be Washington either. So is it worthwhile to sign White? Yes, it helps your chances. But I don't think White will be that perennial player that pushes them over the top.

Soft spots in the lineup:
- top six (Dzingel, Smith better suited to 3rd line)
- 2nd pairing (Phaneuf-Ceci are pretty awful)
- bottom six (Pyatt probably a 4th liner, Kelly too slow, Wingels doesn't bring much)

Not all soft-spots need to be fixed, naturally, and some are not big problems (e.g. Wingels).  However:

- With Methot injured we will, hopefully, get a chance to see Ceci with a different partner; maybe it will help
- Certainly Claesson provides more offense (Karlsson's WOWY numbers show that pretty emphatically)
- Ryan revving up and Stone coming back will bolster the top six (Stone in, Hoffman moved up, pushes Burrows down -- Pyatt replaces Wingels)
- this opens a spot for White to replace Kelly

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan
Dzingel-Pageau-Burrows
Pyatt-White-Stalberg


Maybe flip Smith/Hoffman to give the top line a little better size, depending on opposition.  Dzingel will do better playing against softer opposition.  That 4th line will be very fast.  Other than Smith still being in the top six, that's a solid roster.

Your assertion that the Phaneuf / Ceci pairing is awful is way off base. Our worst defenceman by FAR this year is Methot, who has been an anchor on Karlsson. Boucher LOVES Kelly, he isn't coming out of the lineup for anyone, especially a kid who has earned nothing, Boucher would also never replace Wingels with White. You really should listen to what the coach says sometimes. We already have 3 extra forwards when Neil and Stone are healthy.

Our "worst defenceman by FAR" is not Methot. He'd be in the mix, but there's only really five guys that could take that crown since it isn't Karlsson. I'd rather have Methot out there over Phaneuf, Ceci, or Boro, that's for sure.

Keep in mind that playing with Karlsson isn't necessarily "easy" as a d partner. Karlsson plays a little unconventionally and it can put a lot of pressure on the other d-man.

Oglethorpe wrote:

wprager wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Though the Sens won last night, they won't be Pitt in a 7 game series. I don't think they'd be Washington either. So is it worthwhile to sign White? Yes, it helps your chances. But I don't think White will be that perennial player that pushes them over the top.

Soft spots in the lineup:
- top six (Dzingel, Smith better suited to 3rd line)
- 2nd pairing (Phaneuf-Ceci are pretty awful)
- bottom six (Pyatt probably a 4th liner, Kelly too slow, Wingels doesn't bring much)

Not all soft-spots need to be fixed, naturally, and some are not big problems (e.g. Wingels).  However:

- With Methot injured we will, hopefully, get a chance to see Ceci with a different partner; maybe it will help
- Certainly Claesson provides more offense (Karlsson's WOWY numbers show that pretty emphatically)
- Ryan revving up and Stone coming back will bolster the top six (Stone in, Hoffman moved up, pushes Burrows down -- Pyatt replaces Wingels)
- this opens a spot for White to replace Kelly

Hoffman-Turris-Stone
Smith-Brassard-Ryan
Dzingel-Pageau-Burrows
Pyatt-White-Stalberg


Maybe flip Smith/Hoffman to give the top line a little better size, depending on opposition.  Dzingel will do better playing against softer opposition.  That 4th line will be very fast.  Other than Smith still being in the top six, that's a solid roster.

Your assertion that the Phaneuf / Ceci pairing is awful is way off base.  Our worst defenceman by FAR this year is Methot, who has been an anchor on Karlsson.  Boucher LOVES Kelly, he isn't coming out of the lineup for anyone, especially a kid who has earned nothing, Boucher would also never replace Wingels with White.  You really should listen to what the coach says sometimes. We already have 3 extra forwards when Neil and Stone are healthy.  

Phaneuf is as advertised. Big guy, slow, plays dirty. Heavy shot, good first pass. Takes one bad penalty a game. I'm okay with that.
I think Ceci is grossly overrated. For a puck-moving defenceman he's not very good, and in his own end he's pretty soft. I think Wideman > Ceci

But I do agree that Methot is out worst d-man. I don't think the Sens miss a beat while he's out which will be telling to management in that they shouldn't protect him.

First of all, I see no problem starting White out at center *on the fourth line*.

Second, I was not suggesting what Boucher will do.

Third, Methot is out worst dman? That's an interesting take. Offensively he rivals Boro, and doesn't play as tough. But defensively he is our best.

Karlsson is our best defensive defenceman. He's the most poised with the puck, fastest skater, best passer, plays against other teams' top lines, defensive takeaway leader, kills penalties, and leads the league in blocked shots.

Methot is 1st on the team in +/- (Karlsson factor), 2nd in hits (160 behind Boro, 48 up on Phaneuf), 4th in blocked shots, 5th in scoring (only 3 more points than Claesson and 10 more than Boro), and is tied for the 3rd best giveaway/takeaway ratio with Wideman who handles the puck considerably more. He's also got the 4th highest TOI behind Karlsson, Ceci, and Phaneuf.

So for a top paring defenceman who provides 12 assists over ~ 70 games, you'd expect be to see better, more defensive numbers. Why does our 67 point d-man have more blocked shots, 47 more takeaways, and more shorthanded time on ice than his 'defensive' partner.

Karlsson's WOWY numbers are also higher without Methot. I am not saying he doesn't serve a purpose on this team, but I am saying that he's replaceable and isn't our best defenceman given the amount of ice time and opportunity he has playing with the best d-man in the league.

The fact that you took time to explain why Karlsson is our best defensive defenceman is really funny.

tim1_2 wrote:The fact that you took time to explain why Karlsson is our best defensive defenceman is really funny.

Slow day today. I don't have the patience to explain why Karlsson is better than Burns. But we all know he is...

What's funny is that he attributes Methot's +/- to the "Karlsson factor" while the man himself, Karlsson, seems to be missing about half of that factor.

Methot is a black-hole when it comes to offense (worse, in some ways, than even Boro) but what he does, he does very well.

Karlsson is the best *overall* defenseman. He is not the best strictly defensively speaking.

Neither is he a heavy hitter (that one sternum-busing hit aside). And while a big hit may not have a huge effect in the regular season (you injure or "soften up" a guy but don't play that team again for a month) it absolutely becomes a big weapon in best-of-seven series.

White signed his ATO.

Now let's see what he can do in Bingo to maybe get a call.

Great stuff.  Give him a taste of the pros.  I doubt there's a call, his ELC won't kick in until next year, ottawa won't bother.

wprager wrote:White signed his ATO.

Well I guess this nails any rumour that he won't signed with the sens going forward. He can't go back to college now and probably signs his ELC in the summer. Gives us another reason to scoreboard watch what happens in bingo now.

wprager wrote:White signed his ATO.

Season salvaged.

Nice to see White signed and that whole mess put to bed. If Ottawa gets desperate here (and I don't think they will), they could sign him to his ELC and bring him up.