How do we fix the Senators

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

LeCaptain wrote:Funny how looking back at the draft our best players were the 4-6th rounders while the 1st rounders from the same years have been either traded or underwhelming.

If you look back at, say, the last 10 years, there's only a couple bad picks that stand out...Brian Lee, Jim O'Brien, and now Jared Cowen.  ZBad was taken too high likely, but the book's not closed on him yet.  Even with Cowen, it wasn't a bad pick at the time, it just didn't work out.

Umm, a top-10 pick that doesn't work out *is* a bad pick.

Some years are worst than others though in the draft. I think Scott glennie would hang his head on that one also.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

LeCaptain wrote:Funny how looking back at the draft our best players were the 4-6th rounders while the 1st rounders from the same years have been either traded or underwhelming.

If you look back at, say, the last 10 years, there's only a couple bad picks that stand out...Brian Lee, Jim O'Brien, and now Jared Cowen.  ZBad was taken too high likely, but the book's not closed on him yet.  Even with Cowen, it wasn't a bad pick at the time, it just didn't work out.

Umm, a top-10 pick that doesn't work out *is* a bad pick.

For Diddle's sake.

I don't understand you. If a high pick didn't work out you picked wrong, plain and simple.

It was the right pick at the time. Picks are normally gambles to some degree.  Daigle was the right pick at the time. What can you do.

Flo The Action wrote:the test of a truly good org in drafting is set in the latter rounds. there's going to be mistakes done in all rounds obviously, even in the first.

i just hope that when BM retire we can edge along back towards drafting skill as opposed to the compete level being high and above all else. it's great with guys like Lazar but there are likely players that have more skills that could of been had.

 but whatever. lazar will be traded in the Drouin deal.

Take a look at the garbage in the Zib draft, Murray actually did pretty well. The Lazar draft was top heavy, not much after the top 12. Drouin might have been the worst pick in the top 10.

tim1_2 wrote:It was the right pick at the time. Picks are normally gambles to some degree.  Daigle was the right pick at the time. What can you do.

Daigle was *clearly* the wrong pick. You evaluate players along many different parameters. They messed up. Josh Ho-Sang was a bad pick, too. Skill is only one part of the picture.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:It was the right pick at the time. Picks are normally gambles to some degree.  Daigle was the right pick at the time. What can you do.

Daigle was *clearly* the wrong pick.  You evaluate players along many different parameters.  They messed up.  Josh Ho-Sang was a bad pick, too.  Skill is only one part of the picture.

every team would of picked Daigle 1st in that draft.

Wow. There's no point even having a discussion with you, it seems.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:It was the right pick at the time. Picks are normally gambles to some degree.  Daigle was the right pick at the time. What can you do.

Daigle was *clearly* the wrong pick.  You evaluate players along many different parameters.  They messed up.  Josh Ho-Sang was a bad pick, too.  Skill is only one part of the picture.

every team would of picked Daigle 1st in that draft.

And they would have been wrong. Why is that so hard to understand? When a pick "doesn't work out" it is because they missed something. I'm not saying *what* they did wrong, or if there was even any way for them to find out but it was a mistake. You cannot argue that. It's not as if Daigle was injured (Berard), it was his inability or unwillingness to work hard once he made it. As soon as he said "I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two" that was a huge clue to his character. Of course by that time he was already drafted, but if they had a lengthy interview with him (as well as with his peers) there would likely have been other similar clues. At the time the Sens management cared more for flash and points than for character so they picked Daigle. Or maybe the mistake was done in the development (or non-development) of this young kid. Too much, too early. The NHL has tried to fix this by putting caps on rookie salaries (which wasn't in place at the time) so that's another mistake that has, since, been corrected.

Who did murray originally contact toronto for? Ive read that he called about someone different than phaneuf. Hopefully its not kadri

SpezDispensed wrote:Who did murray originally contact toronto for?  Ive read that he called about someone different than phaneuf.  Hopefully its not kadri

Kadri is a better player than Z.

Oglethorpe wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:Who did murray originally contact toronto for?  Ive read that he called about someone different than phaneuf.  Hopefully its not kadri

Kadri is a better player than Z.

That's fairly debatable IMO, but even if he is, he's such a little bastard that I'd rather let some other team acquire him.

I'd take Kadri over ZBad right now, as !much as it pains me to say it.

urgh... maybe it's because i think there's still a higher upside to Zib but i can't see me wanting kadri. he's a little Dung.

i could see us moving Zib this summer to another team as an upgrade but even that would be hard to do. not that many number 1 center ever come available in trades.

Now that is most likely we will be in the draft lottery, I want the next move to happen at the draft.

If we win the first pick, use White and a piece to get Droiun.

If we get the second or third pick use Any of Chabot/White/ZBad/2017 1st to get a legit top 2 centre.

If we are outside the top 3 we can use this years first as well in order to get a top 2 centre.

I like Duchesne, Draisaitl both of whom may be available if things fall right in the lottery.

First thing first -- trade Anderson and play Hammond the rest of the way.  Either go on another fantastic run or crash and burn and get better odds in the lottery.  Get Bishop back from the Lightning (when they cannot afford him). If they won't move Bishop soon enough go with Driedger/Hammond tandem.

Too late to fix anything this year. Time to evaluate the crap out of who we've got and who deserves a spot next year. Definitely need to do somethng about the specialteams. Get better starts. Maybe practice the first/last minute philosophy of Detroit where you go al out in the first and last minute of each period. Sens have been very good when they get on a roll, but also very good at getting down 2 or more goals before getting on a roll.

wprager wrote:First thing first -- trade Anderson and play Hammond the rest of the way.  Either go on another fantastic run or crash and burn and get better odds in the lottery.  Get Bishop back from the Lightning (when they cannot afford him).  If they won't move Bishop soon enough go with Driedger/Hammond tandem.  

Without a back up plan(driedger/Hammond is not a backup plan) you do not move Anderson. We are likely be back contending next year and will need a solid tender.