Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

tim1_2 wrote:At least our schedule gets nice and easy now, right guys?  Guys?

We should be facing some tired teams and that's always an easy 2 points.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:Nobody should; not even us.

Yes, we really should.  We need someone precisely like that and he loves Karlsson, so I think we can re-up with him for 7.5 per year or around there.

Hoffman is electric, but man do we ever need another D-man who doesn't suck like a vacuum.  What do we have?  Methot, Karlsson and perhaps you can throw in Boro for being a great third pairing guy.

You need more forwards that can play at Karlsson's level. Better players to play with our best player who is on the ice for half the game. Subtracting one of the few players that fits that description (Hoffman) doesn't help the situation at all.

I agree, but what are you going to get for Zibanejad? Certainly nothing like Shattenkirk. Maybe you could get someone like Brodin out of Minny for Z ++, but...when all is said and done, we've had this conversation over and over, year after year. We NEED defence - and not just some guy, we need a top pairing guy to compliment Karlsson, or a guy who COULD be a top pairing guy to play on the 2nd pairing while Methot stays where he is.

It's tough to get, it'll likely not happen under Murray's regime, but that's what we need.

tim1_2 wrote:What we've discussed before...the case for Karlsson to win the Hart:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/the-norris-isnt-enough-why-erik-karlsson-deserves-to-win-the-hart-trophy/

The one point I hate, and not just in Karlsson's case, is the whole time-on-ice thing.  Why is being shoved on the ice for a ton of minutes looked at as such a positive?  People use terms like "minute-eater" as if it's some high praise.  It's an indictment of the rest of the D on the team that he has to play so much.  "Eating minutes" is not some sort of amazing trait.  I would argue Karlsson is even more effective and productive when he doesn't play 30 mins+ each night.  

I think it's mentioned in this context because the last D-Man to win the Hart did so partly on the strength of his time on ice numbers.

In the case of Karlsson, no matter who you add to the defense, he will always be too good to keep off the ice, so the minutes would still be there in all likelihood.

Anyway, he's the best and that's that.

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:Nobody should; not even us.

Yes, we really should.  We need someone precisely like that and he loves Karlsson, so I think we can re-up with him for 7.5 per year or around there.

Hoffman is electric, but man do we ever need another D-man who doesn't suck like a vacuum.  What do we have?  Methot, Karlsson and perhaps you can throw in Boro for being a great third pairing guy.

You need more forwards that can play at Karlsson's level. Better players to play with our best player who is on the ice for half the game. Subtracting one of the few players that fits that description (Hoffman) doesn't help the situation at all.

I agree, but what are you going to get for Zibanejad?  Certainly nothing like Shattenkirk.  Maybe you could get someone like Brodin out of Minny for Z ++, but...when all is said and done, we've had this conversation over and over, year after year.  We NEED defence - and not just some guy, we need a top pairing guy to compliment Karlsson, or a guy who COULD be a top pairing guy to play on the 2nd pairing while Methot stays where he is.

It's tough to get, it'll likely not happen under Murray's regime, but that's what we need.

Add a D-Man and that player will still have to work with forwards that aren't up to snuff offensively or in terms of keeping the puck. An upgrade on Zibanejad would be nice but trading him for a D is a waste of time and an asset.

I'd sooner downgrade our D, which is impossible anyway, and upgrade our forwards because that's how you truly complement "Karls" Karlsson.

I'd rather trade for a legit stud d-man and then seek forward help in free agency in the summer...that would require some spending and delicate cap mangement though....

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:Nobody should; not even us.

Yes, we really should.  We need someone precisely like that and he loves Karlsson, so I think we can re-up with him for 7.5 per year or around there.

Hoffman is electric, but man do we ever need another D-man who doesn't suck like a vacuum.  What do we have?  Methot, Karlsson and perhaps you can throw in Boro for being a great third pairing guy.

You need more forwards that can play at Karlsson's level. Better players to play with our best player who is on the ice for half the game. Subtracting one of the few players that fits that description (Hoffman) doesn't help the situation at all.

I agree, but what are you going to get for Zibanejad?  Certainly nothing like Shattenkirk.  Maybe you could get someone like Brodin out of Minny for Z ++, but...when all is said and done, we've had this conversation over and over, year after year.  We NEED defence - and not just some guy, we need a top pairing guy to compliment Karlsson, or a guy who COULD be a top pairing guy to play on the 2nd pairing while Methot stays where he is.

It's tough to get, it'll likely not happen under Murray's regime, but that's what we need.

Add a D-Man and that player will still have to work with forwards that aren't up to snuff offensively or in terms of keeping the puck. An upgrade on Zibanejad would be nice but trading him for a D is a waste of time and an asset.

I'd sooner downgrade our D, which is impossible anyway, and upgrade our forwards because that's how you truly complement "Karls" Karlsson.

Couldn't disagree more. Need a top notch D-man, our offence is fine anyway. Turris, Ryan, Stone - and hopefully return of the Mac and emergence of young talents like White, Lazar, Pageau. We need D.

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:Nobody should; not even us.

Yes, we really should.  We need someone precisely like that and he loves Karlsson, so I think we can re-up with him for 7.5 per year or around there.

Hoffman is electric, but man do we ever need another D-man who doesn't suck like a vacuum.  What do we have?  Methot, Karlsson and perhaps you can throw in Boro for being a great third pairing guy.

You need more forwards that can play at Karlsson's level. Better players to play with our best player who is on the ice for half the game. Subtracting one of the few players that fits that description (Hoffman) doesn't help the situation at all.

I agree, but what are you going to get for Zibanejad?  Certainly nothing like Shattenkirk.  Maybe you could get someone like Brodin out of Minny for Z ++, but...when all is said and done, we've had this conversation over and over, year after year.  We NEED defence - and not just some guy, we need a top pairing guy to compliment Karlsson, or a guy who COULD be a top pairing guy to play on the 2nd pairing while Methot stays where he is.

It's tough to get, it'll likely not happen under Murray's regime, but that's what we need.

Add a D-Man and that player will still have to work with forwards that aren't up to snuff offensively or in terms of keeping the puck. An upgrade on Zibanejad would be nice but trading him for a D is a waste of time and an asset.

I'd sooner downgrade our D, which is impossible anyway, and upgrade our forwards because that's how you truly complement "Karls" Karlsson.

Couldn't disagree more.  Need a top notch D-man, our offence is fine anyway.  Turris, Ryan, Stone - and hopefully return of the Mac and emergence of young talents like White, Lazar, Pageau.  We need D.

Fair enough.

Claesson is an improvement over Cowen (I mean if he's playing on the third pairing). Wideman is an improvement over Boro playing his wrong side. We have enough pieces internally to improve our D but are not using them properly. Claesson should be on the third pairing. I don't think that's a revelation it should have been obvious. Borowiecki should not be playing the right side on the first PK unit. In fact, I'd alternate Wiercioch and Borowiecki based on the opponent.

Right-side: Karlsson-Ceci-Wideman
Left-sde: Methot-Boro/Wier-Claesson

You can split up Karlsson/Methot if Wiercioch is in because Karlsson-Wiercioch has worked before; I am not at all comfortable playing Boro on the top pairing. With Methot on the top pairing you have to have Boro in the lineup for top PK unit, otherwise Methot does the job and plays 2nd line minutes at ES.

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

TheAvatar wrote:Nobody should; not even us.

Yes, we really should.  We need someone precisely like that and he loves Karlsson, so I think we can re-up with him for 7.5 per year or around there.

Hoffman is electric, but man do we ever need another D-man who doesn't suck like a vacuum.  What do we have?  Methot, Karlsson and perhaps you can throw in Boro for being a great third pairing guy.

You need more forwards that can play at Karlsson's level. Better players to play with our best player who is on the ice for half the game. Subtracting one of the few players that fits that description (Hoffman) doesn't help the situation at all.

I agree, but what are you going to get for Zibanejad?  Certainly nothing like Shattenkirk.  Maybe you could get someone like Brodin out of Minny for Z ++, but...when all is said and done, we've had this conversation over and over, year after year.  We NEED defence - and not just some guy, we need a top pairing guy to compliment Karlsson, or a guy who COULD be a top pairing guy to play on the 2nd pairing while Methot stays where he is.

It's tough to get, it'll likely not happen under Murray's regime, but that's what we need.

Add a D-Man and that player will still have to work with forwards that aren't up to snuff offensively or in terms of keeping the puck. An upgrade on Zibanejad would be nice but trading him for a D is a waste of time and an asset.

I'd sooner downgrade our D, which is impossible anyway, and upgrade our forwards because that's how you truly complement "Karls" Karlsson.

Couldn't disagree more.  Need a top notch D-man, our offence is fine anyway.  Turris, Ryan, Stone - and hopefully return of the Mac and emergence of young talents like White, Lazar, Pageau.  We need D.

I don't see how you replace Zib in a trade. None of the guy you mentioned can step to the 2nd C position. To me that is not a move the org makes to create a huge gap in the middle.
Pageau isn't looking like he'll be a top 6 C any time soon. Pageau is probably best suited to center that 3rd line and white.... You might want to see him at the pro level with a few games before appointing him as legitimate depth for that position.

We need a top 4 but not at the cost of Zib without having a legit replacement.

The bottom line is we're pretty thin everywhere in the lineup. Unless we're trading prospects/picks to bring in immediate help, we'll be robbing Peter to pay Paul (or however that saying goes). If you trade Hoff or ZBad for a defenceman, well, you just stripped the roster of valuable scoring (we don't have much!). And then which of our prospects are blue chippers who could actually land us a good player? White maybe? Times are tough, and it sucks that our young players just aren't as developed as we all think they should be (ZBad, Lazar, Wiercioch, Ceci, Cowen, etc).

I'm telling you Shattenkirk would be great here. At the moment he's playing with bottom 4 defensemen in St-Louis and is doing just fine. I think he could be great with Boro or Methot.
Ceci and Wiercioch are capable if they are a bottom 6 pairing.

tim1_2 wrote:The bottom line is we're pretty thin everywhere in the lineup.  Unless we're trading prospects/picks to bring in immediate help, we'll be robbing Peter to pay Paul (or however that saying goes).  If you trade Hoff or ZBad for a defenceman, well, you just stripped the roster of valuable scoring (we don't have much!).  And then which of our prospects are blue chippers who could actually land us a good player?  White maybe?  Times are tough, and it sucks that our young players just aren't as developed as we all think they should be (ZBad, Lazar, Wiercioch, Ceci, Cowen, etc).  

5th in the league in goals for, 15th in goals against. And that's including very good goaltending.
I also think when you leave your zone efficiently the forwards won't have to dump it everytime like we see now.

tim1_2 wrote:The bottom line is we're pretty thin everywhere in the lineup.  Unless we're trading prospects/picks to bring in immediate help, we'll be robbing Peter to pay Paul (or however that saying goes).  If you trade Hoff or ZBad for a defenceman, well, you just stripped the roster of valuable scoring (we don't have much!).  And then which of our prospects are blue chippers who could actually land us a good player?  White maybe?  Times are tough, and it sucks that our young players just aren't as developed as we all think they should be (ZBad, Lazar, Wiercioch, Ceci, Cowen, etc).  

I don't know because SpezD seems to be counting on the "emergence of young talents like White, Lazar, Pageau."

Every year we spend chasing our tail waiting for the next big thing to pan out is another year closer to Karlsson retiring or starting to decline. Enough already.

SeawaySensFan wrote:Every year we spend chasing our tail waiting for the next big thing to pan out is another year closer to Karlsson retiring or starting to decline. Enough already.

Well, that and Anderson. I have no question we could win a Cup with tending goal, but who knows what we'll be left with when he moves on.

Yeah we've been retooling for 7 years. Time to go to 2nd gear

LeCaptain wrote:Yeah we've been retooling for 7 years. Time to go to 2nd gear

Couldn't have said it better myself.

LeCaptain wrote:Yeah we've been retooling for 7 years. Time to go to 2nd gear

Yes I agree. That's why I keep saying all picks are on the table. Obviously not for a rental but if we can somehow bring in guys like fowler or shattenkirk to anchor the second pairing then we are looking more promising going forward.
It is going to cost us more than picks obviously. Anyone not called white or chabot is up for grabs but in the right deal maybe one of those might have to go.
Again, I'm not saying Hoffman, Chabot and a 1st but pick something.
If we could get shattenkirk with a guarantee he will resign then maybe it's worth moving Ceci, lazar and a 1st. Shatts would probably make wier look a lot better. Or maybe its a bigger deal like spezzD mentioned. Or we move Hoffman with wier and a 2nd for Fowler.

Whatever it is, you have to make a move at this point. This is not working.