Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

wprager wrote:They traded Bishop, extended Andy with a NTC only in the first year or two -- all of those were indications of where Murray wanted to go, yet MacLean went another way.  His handing of the personnel given to him seemed to often go against the (perceived) intention of the GM.  This is mostly why he was fired.

Andy doesn't have any NTC.

wprager wrote:Of course it works.  

Not for long though, he's right. There comes a time when you have to go back to the 'guy'. Good ole Mac went way too early with that though.

Any news on Condra?

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Any news on Condra?

He wants a 3-year deal for under 2 million apparently.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:They gave in to him when they brought him up as a backup when he should have been the starter in Bingo for a year or two.  A goalie needs to play to develop and he just never played enough games.  

He won everything in Bingo, nothing for him to learn there except, perhaps, patience.  I'll give you that.

But McLean was an absolute idiot the way he handle him here.  Coaching 101 is you ride the hot hand.  It's a long season, no-one has come anywhere remotely close to winning 82 in a row; with back-to-back games, elite-level opponents and of course the very nature of a streak (it has a beginning and an end) it's the only move -- you ride the hot hand.   MacLean didn't do that on several occasions.

Riding the hot hand doesn't work when you have an experienced veteran.

To this day there was no reason to take Lehner out after he was first star of the week and the Sens had turned it around. That's on MacLean and that's when absolutely everything went downhill for the Sens, Lehner, and MacLean himself.

Don't care the reasons for the decision, it was completely wrong and this isn't using hindsight either.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Of course it works.  

No it doesn't work like that dude. New York didn't keep riding Talbot. If you have a proven veteran you go back to him

They rode him for a long time. After his last winning streak of 4 games (March 8-15) he went 4-3-0, not winning any consecutive games. Plus they wanted Lundqvist to have a few games before the playoffs.

Very different from the situation where Lehner won three games in a row, was named the league's first star and we were nowhere near the playoffs.

Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:They traded Bishop, extended Andy with a NTC only in the first year or two -- all of those were indications of where Murray wanted to go, yet MacLean went another way.  His handing of the personnel given to him seemed to often go against the (perceived) intention of the GM.  This is mostly why he was fired.

Andy doesn't have any NTC.

I thought he had NTC in his first or first two years of the deal. I think I'm talking about the previous contract. Signs were pointing to Lehner taking over so Anderson's contract was structured in such a way as to be able to move him if Lehner took over.

SpezDispensed wrote:

wprager wrote:Of course it works.  

Not for long though, he's right.  There comes a time when you have to go back to the 'guy'.  Good ole Mac went way too early with that though.

Who the Diddle said anything about it being for long? You ride the streak. If Lehner managed to continue his hot streak for the remainder of the season going 54-3-2 or something ridiculous like that then no-body would have been complaining. But that wasn't going to happen. Could he have won another couple games after his 3-0 in one week? Very possibly, yes. At some point, though, whether because of back-to-back games or a loss Anderson would have gotten back in.

The huge thing here is that if Lehner was taken out because of a back-to-back situation or a sub-par game, it would be understandable. But he was taken out after winning the star of the week, putting the team on a 3-game winning streak (something Lehner could not do up to that point). It's demoralizing, confusing and if you don't have the "Screw it, I'm getting paid anyway" attitude of a guy who's made his millions and is not trying to impress for his next contract then it could be a little bit more difficult to get over.

Could he have handled it better? Of course. Will he handle it better next time? Very probably. Could MacLean have handled it differently? No, he *should have* handled it differently.

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:They gave in to him when they brought him up as a backup when he should have been the starter in Bingo for a year or two.  A goalie needs to play to develop and he just never played enough games.  

He won everything in Bingo, nothing for him to learn there except, perhaps, patience.  I'll give you that.

But McLean was an absolute idiot the way he handle him here.  Coaching 101 is you ride the hot hand.  It's a long season, no-one has come anywhere remotely close to winning 82 in a row; with back-to-back games, elite-level opponents and of course the very nature of a streak (it has a beginning and an end) it's the only move -- you ride the hot hand.   MacLean didn't do that on several occasions.

Riding the hot hand doesn't work when you have an experienced veteran.

To this day there was no reason to take Lehner out after he was first star of the week and the Sens had turned it around.  That's on MacLean and that's when absolutely everything went downhill for the Sens, Lehner, and MacLean himself.

Don't care the reasons for the decision, it was completely wrong and this isn't using hindsight either.

Totally agree and I can see why Lehner felt him and MacLean didn't click. A very polite way of saying he screwed him for no apparent reason that made any sense.

That was Lehner took control of his faith and the teams, that's when they got the guy everyone wanted. MacLean screwed him and his players because of his own ideas and not the well being of those around him.

That was the beginning of the end of Mac as a competent head coach too.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

wprager wrote:Of course it works.  

Not for long though, he's right.  There comes a time when you have to go back to the 'guy'.  Good ole Mac went way too early with that though.

Who the Diddle said anything about it being for long?  You ride the streak.  If Lehner managed to continue his hot streak for the remainder of the season going 54-3-2 or something ridiculous like that then no-body would have been complaining.  But that wasn't going to happen.  Could he have won another couple games after his 3-0 in one week?  Very possibly, yes.  At some point, though, whether because of back-to-back games or a loss Anderson would have gotten back in.

The huge thing here is that if Lehner was taken out because of a back-to-back situation or a sub-par game, it would be understandable.  But he was taken out after winning the star of the week, putting the team on a 3-game winning streak (something Lehner could not do up to that point).  It's demoralizing, confusing and if you don't have the "Screw it, I'm getting paid anyway" attitude of a guy who's made his millions and is not trying to impress for his next contract  then it could be a little bit more difficult to get over.

Could he have handled it better?  Of course.  Will he handle it better next time?  Very probably.  Could MacLean have handled it differently? No, he *should have* handled it differently.

I'm with ya here, Prags. Lehner was particularly mishandled after that 1st star selection. It's almost as if Mac didn't believe in him and resented the fact that Lehner proved him wrong. They should have given him more of a chance to continue his success.

Let him lose his spot in his own with a reg loss. Don't take it away when the team needs wins, and he's providing just that.

Stupid call. I certainly lost some faith in Mac when he did that.

Oglethorpe wrote:They gave in to him when they brought him up as a backup when he should have been the starter in Bingo for a year or two.  A goalie needs to play to develop and he just never played enough games.  

Fair point, especially considering the rest of the convo in this thread.

Might be the worst comment I've seen about Condra:


Condra is one of the best possession drivers in the NHL, he's like Justin Williams without as many clutch playoff goals and cups. I'd be surprised if Condra is paid more than half of what Williams gets.

The NHL is weird.

EDIT: I'M WEIRD, LOOKED UP JUSTIN WILLIAMS AND WOW WHAT A PLAYER. HE'S SO GOOD

HF?

Not surprised that Condra didn't re-sign. A little surprised he ended up going for so little. I know it's one more year but it sounds like they weren't even going to offer him a small raise.

What's with the Eric O'Dell signing? Another RHS center. Heard them say that he's an NHLer. So are they expecting to move Smith? We already have Turris-Zibanejad-Pageau-Smith and even Lazar.

wprager wrote:Not surprised that Condra didn't re-sign.  A little surprised he ended up going for so little.  I know it's one more year but it sounds like they weren't even going to offer him a small raise.  

They liked Condra, I liked Condra, no one loved him.

Fact is they are going to have a lot of guys pushing for time this year and this shows those same guys there is room if they earn it.

Puempel, Prince, and Robinson right away need a chance. Paul, Lindberg, McCormick, and Dzingle are all going to be looking for some time, then there are the prospects in the system that might surprise at some point and you can't have a guy like Condra taking up a spot when someone else is better and ready.

He was a good Sen, neither side owes the other side a thing, c'est la vie man.