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GM Hockey » Ottawa Senators » Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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dennycrane
tim1_2
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DefenceWinsChampionships
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TheAvatar
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Cap'n Clutch
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Flo The Action
Oglethorpe
Ev
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NEELY
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TheAvatar


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Source?

SeawaySensFan


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TheAvatar wrote:Source?

Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS! - Page 6 852933671

NEELY


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Mod

The Sens are so close to being a really good team, you can see it.  The biggest thing missing is the experience and obviously that's impossible to solve over night.  Down the middle they are deep and only getting better, do they have that typical PPG #1 center?  No they don't but neither does Chicago, Boston, and you can even add LA in there but Kopitar is pretty close to a PPG guy.  They are missing a LH center though and I am not sure what you would be willing to deal to get him (ROR) but it might be worth it.  I'll say this, if the Sens are not going to be picking in the top 10 in the draft then I think you can move that pick straight up for ROR and not worry.

On the wing I think they need that big body guy who can score some goals, not easy to find.  I think Kassian might be out there but if they can sign Stewart via UFA I think that's a solid move.  Other than that I think re-signing a guy like Condra is important and obviously moving out the dead weight in Greening is important.  

In net they are rock solid.

On D, they need 1 more guy if Methot is resigned.  I don't care if you like Methot on or off the ice, you can ignore what he means to Karlsson and how he has helped him find his game again.  Someone else said it yesterday I think but that and that alone is worth 5 x 5 perhaps but hopefully they can figure it out and lock him down.  It just moves everyone down a notch and again, adds depth.  

Methot/Karlsson
Cowen/Ceci
Boroweicki/Gryba
Wiercioch

That's not the blueline of the future, that's the blueline of the present and future. Only thing that is missing is a little offense from the left side of the point but hopefully with Phillips being on his way out he gets in a lot more going forward and can find his game.  Still struggles getting lost in the play.

If they go into next year with a lineup like this

Hoffman/Zibanejad/Ryan
MacArthur/Turris/Stone
Chaisson/ROR/Stewart
Michalek/Pageau/Neil
Condra (always finds his way into the lineup)

Having a LH center/winger is going to be extremely important though... not sure if it will be ROR himself but they need that.  On the way out I think is Smith, Greening, Legwand, and Phillips at some point and I think Lehner could be used as trade bait at this point. I also think Lazar starts the year in the AHL and finds some success down there first, he's the type of player that only works harder if so.

SeawaySensFan

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Many of you will be delighted by the following report from the $hitizen:

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/nhl/senators-extra/phillips-neil-methot-all-could-be-dealt-murray-says

It's either true that he's received inquiries for Neil and Phillips or he's trying to drum up interest.

Obviously, if you have no intention of playing these guys, just do them a favour and get rid of them. Same goes for Legwand who should probably fetch the biggest return of just about any player we might trade.

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Stolen from SC.

Quotes from Dreger on Lehner this morning.

“Not really because I don’t think they know what they had yet in Robin Lehner. And that’s the big issue. Teams have called on Robin Lehner. In fact, I think that there’s been communication in the past between the Oilers and Ottawa Senators specific to Robin Lehner.

“But as much as Bryan Murray and the Sens want Robin Lehner to develop into their star goaltender, he’s not doing that yet. So the value in Craig Anderson from a Senators perspective is immeasurable. Maybe things change in terms of his availability as you get closer to the trade deadline, or in the offseason, but right now, if it weren’t for Craig
Anderson, the Ottawa Senators would be a far worse team than what they are right now.”

I think the Sens end up with that Pitt pick for Lehner... just a hunch.

Ev

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NEELY wrote:Stolen from SC.

Quotes from Dreger on Lehner this morning.

“Not really because I don’t think they know what they had yet in Robin Lehner. And that’s the big issue. Teams have called on Robin Lehner. In fact, I think that there’s been communication in the past between the Oilers and Ottawa Senators specific to Robin Lehner.

“But as much as Bryan Murray and the Sens want Robin Lehner to develop into their star goaltender, he’s not doing that yet. So the value in Craig Anderson from a Senators perspective is immeasurable. Maybe things change in terms of his availability as you get closer to the trade deadline, or in the offseason, but right now, if it weren’t for Craig
Anderson, the Ottawa Senators would be a far worse team than what they are right now.”

I think the Sens end up with that Pitt pick for Lehner... just a hunch.

That would be horrible man. You need something tangible and something valuable for him.

NEELY


Mod
Mod

This is just my train of thought, if they do move him for that 1st it's a lot easier and justifiable to move that pick OR Ottawa's 1st in a trade for a guy like ROR.  You have that additional pick and you are still getting a prospect one way or another and you have 2 2nds to play with as well.

Yah, it doesn't help the Sens right now but fact of the matter is that 1st does have value and if you are dealing Lehner you need value back even if it isn't an asset that will help you right now.  There are 2 or 3 places Ottawa can move Lehner if they do decide to move him and IMO Edmonton probably has the best deal to offer in terms of value.

Pitt 1st and Scrivins/Fasth for Lehner, about as good as you can get for an unproven goaltender with tons of potential.  Not ideal but he's not getting the net in Ottawa from Anderson.  Anderson is the guy and will be for a long time IMO and obviously a lot of others.  Don't agree with this line of thinking but it is what it is.

Ev

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NEELY wrote:This is just my train of thought, if they do move him for that 1st it's a lot easier and justifiable to move that pick OR Ottawa's 1st in a trade for a guy like ROR.  You have that additional pick and you are still getting a prospect one way or another and you have 2 2nds to play with as well.

Yah, it doesn't help the Sens right now but fact of the matter is that 1st does have value and if you are dealing Lehner you need value back even if it isn't an asset that will help you right now.  There are 2 or 3 places Ottawa can move Lehner if they do decide to move him and IMO Edmonton probably has the best deal to offer in terms of value.

Pitt 1st and Scrivins/Fasth for Lehner, about as good as you can get for an unproven goaltender with tons of potential.  Not ideal but he's not getting the net in Ottawa from Anderson.  Anderson is the guy and will be for a long time IMO and obviously a lot of others.  Don't agree with this line of thinking but it is what it is.

I still don't agree. It's a smokescreen to get Anderson's value up. Murray is very good at media games.

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Won't dismiss the idea because it's happened before but I don't think that's the case here. The organization truly believes in Anderson and he's a fairly mature goaltender that yah, he shoots off at the mouth sometimes but Lehner is still a project.

Again, not dismissing your thoughts (and others) but I just don't think it's the case here. Say what you want but Anderson is the best goaltender the Sens have ever had and he has shown no signs of stopping... inconsistent from year to year but with an improved defense that might change.

SeawaySensFan

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Ev wrote:
NEELY wrote:Stolen from SC.

Quotes from Dreger on Lehner this morning.

“Not really because I don’t think they know what they had yet in Robin Lehner. And that’s the big issue. Teams have called on Robin Lehner. In fact, I think that there’s been communication in the past between the Oilers and Ottawa Senators specific to Robin Lehner.

“But as much as Bryan Murray and the Sens want Robin Lehner to develop into their star goaltender, he’s not doing that yet. So the value in Craig Anderson from a Senators perspective is immeasurable. Maybe things change in terms of his availability as you get closer to the trade deadline, or in the offseason, but right now, if it weren’t for Craig
Anderson, the Ottawa Senators would be a far worse team than what they are right now.”

I think the Sens end up with that Pitt pick for Lehner... just a hunch.

That would be horrible man. You need something tangible and something valuable for him.

Agreed. A late round pick shouldn't be enough. You just keep the player if that's case.

Your best trade bait should fill an immediate need, IMO.

With respect to Pittsburgh being a dance partner for a Lehner trade, I don't see it because of their apparent confidence in The Flower. There are a few teams I could see that would want to add Lehner for NEXT season but I like San Jose as a playoff bound trade partner and I would guess, with Hertl having an off year, they might do a Lehner and Legwand for Hertl and whatever deal.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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NEELY wrote:This is just my train of thought, if they do move him for that 1st it's a lot easier and justifiable to move that pick OR Ottawa's 1st in a trade for a guy like ROR.  You have that additional pick and you are still getting a prospect one way or another and you have 2 2nds to play with as well.

Yah, it doesn't help the Sens right now but fact of the matter is that 1st does have value and if you are dealing Lehner you need value back even if it isn't an asset that will help you right now.  There are 2 or 3 places Ottawa can move Lehner if they do decide to move him and IMO Edmonton probably has the best deal to offer in terms of value.

Pitt 1st and Scrivins/Fasth for Lehner, about as good as you can get for an unproven goaltender with tons of potential.  Not ideal but he's not getting the net in Ottawa from Anderson.  Anderson is the guy and will be for a long time IMO and obviously a lot of others.  Don't agree with this line of thinking but it is what it is.

Gotta be careful with ROR. He's making $6M and is a UFA the year after.
- No guarantees he re-signs in Ottawa
- No guarantees Ottawa can afford him if he wants to test FA
- We'd have to give up a lot to trade for him
- Do we really want him as our 3LC with Pageau, Lazar, Da Costa in the mix?

The Sens have struggled this year because they've been forced to play 5-6 guys because of their contracts, not because of their skill. Nice to see Michalek come on as of late, but Neil, Phillips, Legwand, Greening, Smith all need to go for this team to improve. Wideman, Prince, Puempel, Robinson deserve good looks next season, but still don't think they'll make the team based on the number of bodies/contracts in the organization. The Sens should be aiming to go into camp next year with their top 9 figured out, and try to move past the 'rugged' player mentality. Focus should be on being able to roll three lines with an equal threat of scoring and defensive responsibility, with an 'energy' fourth line that can score greasy goals.

To Edmonton:
Lehner, Chiasson (RFA), Wiercioch

To Ottawa:
Eberle, Fasth (UFA)

MacArthur-Turris-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Ryan
Puempel-Lazar-Stone
Michalek-Pageau-Condra
Robinson

Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Ceci
Boro-Gryba
Wideman

NEELY


Mod
Mod

.... Edm has Pitts 1st rounder.

NEELY


Mod
Mod

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
NEELY wrote:This is just my train of thought, if they do move him for that 1st it's a lot easier and justifiable to move that pick OR Ottawa's 1st in a trade for a guy like ROR.  You have that additional pick and you are still getting a prospect one way or another and you have 2 2nds to play with as well.

Yah, it doesn't help the Sens right now but fact of the matter is that 1st does have value and if you are dealing Lehner you need value back even if it isn't an asset that will help you right now.  There are 2 or 3 places Ottawa can move Lehner if they do decide to move him and IMO Edmonton probably has the best deal to offer in terms of value.

Pitt 1st and Scrivins/Fasth for Lehner, about as good as you can get for an unproven goaltender with tons of potential.  Not ideal but he's not getting the net in Ottawa from Anderson.  Anderson is the guy and will be for a long time IMO and obviously a lot of others.  Don't agree with this line of thinking but it is what it is.

Gotta be careful with ROR. He's making $6M and is a UFA the year after.
- No guarantees he re-signs in Ottawa
- No guarantees Ottawa can afford him if he wants to test FA
- We'd have to give up a lot to trade for him
- Do we really want him as our 3LC with Pageau, Lazar, Da Costa in the mix?

The Sens have struggled this year because they've been forced to play 5-6 guys because of their contracts, not because of their skill. Nice to see Michalek come on as of late, but Neil, Phillips, Legwand, Greening, Smith all need to go for this team to improve. Wideman, Prince, Puempel, Robinson deserve good looks next season, but still don't think they'll make the team based on the number of bodies/contracts in the organization. The Sens should be aiming to go into camp next year with their top 9 figured out, and try to move past the 'rugged' player mentality. Focus should be on being able to roll three lines with an equal threat of scoring and defensive responsibility, with an 'energy' fourth line that can score greasy goals.

To Edmonton:
Lehner, Chiasson (RFA), Wiercioch

To Ottawa:
Eberle, Fasth (UFA)

MacArthur-Turris-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Ryan
Puempel-Lazar-Stone
Michalek-Pageau-Condra
Robinson

Methot-Karlsson
Cowen-Ceci
Boro-Gryba
Wideman

The biggest needs is a top 6 center/winger with a LH shot. It's a huge liability having 4, 5 RH shots up the middle and that's it. Yah, ROR is going to get paid but he's exactly the type of forward the Sens need along with a big winger who can score some goals (hopefully that Chaisson). In any deal for ROR you obviously need some sort of extension in place before you make the deal otherwise yah, it doesn't make sense.

If you can have this as your center ice Zibanejad/Turris/ROR/Pageau, that's what cup winners are built on. Depth up the middle and depth on the blueline along with good to great goaltending. With Stone, Ryan, Hoffman, and hopefully a guy like Stewart coming into the fold along with some skill and big guys down the lineup and in Bingo you fill out your wings like that.

tim1_2

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A deal involving a goalie would be more likely to be made in the off-season, I think, especially if Ottawa keeps their faint playoff hopes alive until the trade deadline.

NEELY


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Mod

I can see Edm and Ott making a deal before or at the deadline for Lehner.  No real rhyme or reason why either team wouldn't do this asap or soon if it actually makes sense on both ends.  If by chance they move Anderson yah, off season move for sure.  Same position but different players and different circumstances.

I stand by the idea that having that 25th, 26th overall pick in this years draft could be a very big chip to play, at minimum give the Sens a lot more options for another potential piece whether that's moving their 1st or a prospect. If you really want to maximize that Lehner deal I would get Edm's actual 2nd rounder instead because at the end of the day that could end up being 1 spot behind Pitt's 1st, you obviously have more dumped on with a 2nd rounder just for sheer optics.

SeawaySensFan

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NEELY wrote:.... Edm has Pitts 1st rounder.

True. I still think getting Hertl from San Jose is better than that pick. If Edmonton can fill a more immediate need than a pick would bring, and they certainly have the players to do so, then that might be a better option.

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Don't have to look at a trade with Edmonton as getting the player you want back, you get an asset back that you can then move for the player you want. Fact is Colorado doesn't want a goalie, they have one. ROR is not resigning in Colorado. How many teams can give up picks and prospects and potentially a D man for ROR? Hell, who has the cap room to add him on top of all that. Who has a big a need for a LH top 6 center/winger than Ottawa?

That's how I look at any deal involving Lehner because I think there's only 1 place he goes and you take the best and most useful asset you can from the Oilers and that's a Pitt 1st or Edm's own 2nd rounder (difference is marginal at this point).

SeawaySensFan

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NEELY wrote:Don't have to look at a trade with Edmonton as getting the player you want back, you get an asset back that you can then move for the player you want.  Fact is Colorado doesn't want a goalie, they have one.  ROR is not resigning in Colorado.  How many teams can give up picks and prospects and potentially a D man for ROR?  Hell, who has the cap room to add him on top of all that.  Who has a big a need for a LH top 6 center/winger than Ottawa?

That's how I look at any deal involving Lehner because I think there's only 1 place he goes and you take the best and most useful asset you can from the Oilers and that's a Pitt 1st or Edm's own 2nd rounder (difference is marginal at this point).

Fair enough, I could see that happening too. But I still think getting that pick to make a pick would be a waste. You flip it, you might have something.

Honestly, I don't know if you throw all you got at COL for ROR anyway. Is he that much better than Zib or Turris? Not sure. Maybe you pick up some picks from other deals (veteran purge) and use those to add to an EDM offer to get someone like Hall instead.

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