GAME DAY: New York Rangers @ Ottawa Senators :: 7:30pm ET :: Tue. Mar. 18th, 2014

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Spezza does what he wants, always has and always will.

Too easy.  Problem is much more than "Spezza does what he wants".

More problems then that but like myself, Todd White last night, and a lot of others have been saying (which you seem to ignore for some reason) is that when you have a guy like Spezza doing one thing, the coach preaching to the rest of the team something else, it leads to conflict and inconsistency in not only the play on ice but the message being sent and the development of the players.

You can't have a player doing one thing (especially the captain) and expect everyone else to fall in line.

On the contrary -- it's guys like you who are much more likely to ignore things if you think getting rid of Spezza is all that stands between now and a parade.  Worst case scenario could be we get rid of Spezza, and everyone conveniently uses him as a scapegoat and other serious issues are left alone.

I think everyone agrees that Spezza is not the only problem here.  I think it's a huge issue if you have players making $2+M a year who need to see the guy with the 'C' working hard before they work hard themselves.  You say that if Spezza looks someone in the eyes and tells them they need to work harder that player will just roll their eyes because Spezza isn't doing that himself (btw, that's not entirely true)?  If we have that kind of player in the room then I want that player gone!  

Or did you mean that Spezza simply cannot look someone in the eyes and give them the hard message because he needs to hear that same message himself?  If that's the case, then, surely, there is someone else in that room that can deliver this message?  I honestly don't think that Alfredsson ever delivered that kind of message.  Maybe Neil, maybe Phillips.   And if we don't have *anyone* in that room who can deliver that message then we need to swap out 23 players, not just one.

Even if you don't have a single player who is willing and capable to look someone in the eyes and tell them to work harder, there's still the coach.  He can tell them to work harder and reward them with ice time when they do.  MacLean preaches accountability but practices croneyism.  You can call it "leaning on the vets" but the point is that Anderson, Phillips and Spezza have all had bad seasons in one way or another.  Neil hasn't been nearly as effective as we'd like him to be but that would be fine if he was playing 4th liner minutes -- he's not.  Yong players getting big contracts with an entitlement chip on their shoulders need to be put in their places; Cowen/Greening/Condra and even Smith to a lesser extent needed to be scratched when they deserved it.  

None of this was done, and I have this big fear that getting rid of Spezza will give MacLean an out -- I never wanted him as Captain, I knew this would happen.  MacLean has made some very bad decisions.  Even last year, how many times did we raise our eyebrows and then said "...but I trust the Walrus", because all of his (many) questionable decisions appeared to be working out? We keep forgetting that we were second in the league in GAA with pretty much two rookies taking over a Vezina-calibre Anderson who set a modern-era record for SV% in a season.  How many of those "interesting" choices were simply bad decisions covered up by superb goaltending?

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Dear Lord, why must we have Phillips as captain?  What in the world has ever given anyone evidence that he's captain material?  I'm sincerely asking.  15 years in the mix and he's the guy you choose?  Why, because of his tenure?

Also, you talk about guys who march to their own drum in terms of coaching...is Karlsson one of those guys?

Karlsson needs to be reigned in a bit for sure, that will happen with maturity.  Spezza and Alfie each got a decade plus, Karlsson deserve more than 3, 4 years.

As for Phillips, you make him the captain for the reasons I listed.  Say what you want but he leads by example off the ice, will take the heat for on ice play if the team struggles, and he's a player everyone can approach, especially the prospects/rookies/younger players.  It's Karlsson's team but you let him gradually fill into the role of team leader, can't throw him to the wolves right after what happened this year.  In 2 years when Phillips is probably done (even if he isn't) you give Karlsson the "C".  You are 3 years removed from Alfie and he's retired, the Spezza debacle is long forgotten, the team at that point will have a new identity, and the core will be solidly in place.  Phillips is the guy to make that transition with because of these things as well... the team isn't leaning on Phillips to win games, to make a difference each night, etc, etc, etc.  If Phillips doesn't screw up people will be happy, simple as that.  Right now that's what you want the Senators captain to be, a guy who is somewhat forgotten on the ice but people will go to off it.  This IMO is an important part going forward.

Karlsson needs to be reigned in by a more forceful voice in way of a defensive coach....  Nothing against Reeds.. but someone like Richardson, Galley, Cunneyworth..  someone who has been through it all for a long time and has really good experience.. someone the players can really look up to..

wprager wrote:OK, I think NEELY is coming apart.

So it's not that Spezza is dogging it out there.  He's working hard just not smart.  So we need a player with a high IQ as the captain because people with a lower IQ cannot lead other people with a low IQ?

Ev wrote:NEELY is right about Spezza but he does contradict himself lol

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:NEELY is right about Spezza but he does contradict himself lol

Where's the contradiction?

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:OK, I think NEELY is coming apart.

So it's not that Spezza is dogging it out there.  He's working hard just not smart.  So we need a player with a high IQ as the captain because people with a lower IQ cannot lead other people with a low IQ?

Yah it's clear you don't get it. 

I'll dumb it down because obviously it needs to be.  All players work hard, no player ever goes out and plays a game without effort.  Problem is some players play hard and don't know how to change their game when needed, step up their game and work harder when needed, or do what's required of them for their team to be successful.  Working smart is what makes good players great.

wprager wrote:
So it's not that Spezza is dogging it out there.  He's working hard just not smart.  So we need a player with a high IQ as the captain because people with a lower IQ cannot lead other people with a low IQ?

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Ev wrote:NEELY is right about Spezza but he does contradict himself lol

Where's the contradiction?

Just in general lol

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:OK, I think NEELY is coming apart.

So it's not that Spezza is dogging it out there.  He's working hard just not smart.  So we need a player with a high IQ as the captain because people with a lower IQ cannot lead other people with a low IQ?

Yah it's clear you don't get it. 

I'll dumb it down because obviously it needs to be.  All players work hard, no player ever goes out and plays a game without effort.  Problem is some players play hard and don't know how to change their game when needed, step up their game and work harder when needed, or do what's required of them for their team to be successful.  Working smart is what makes good players great.

SpezDispenser wrote:I just hope when the dust settles MacLean can actually coach and wasn't the beneficiary of ridiculous goaltending.  There's evidence both ways as of the right meow.

Hoags wrote:

wprager wrote:
So it's not that Spezza is dogging it out there.  He's working hard just not smart.  So we need a player with a high IQ as the captain because people with a lower IQ cannot lead other people with a low IQ?

Spezza isn't dogging it out there? How many times is he idling on the ice watching an opponent skate in and score or get a good scoring chance.

You can probably find just about any player in such a scenario but it happens with him time and again.  Backchecking isn't in his vocabulary at all.