2010 NHL Draft

Devo wrote:

Gohan wrote:

Dash wrote:

N4L wrote:

Dash wrote:This might be the most anti-climactic draft in Sens history.

The Sens website is advertising draft day hats and have a jersey and it says "Who will the sens draft in the 2010 1st round?"Answer: Nobody. They will draft a guy who was drafted a year ago.

Then we sit for the 2nd where we had two picks and watch a bunch of good picks waltz by. Then we miss out on Kabanov (who was once dubbed the next Ovechkin) and pass on Pulkinen, the only forward left anyone knows of.

YOu're point?

My point is I am disappointed. I was really looking forward to the possibility of adding a guy that could absolutely be an impact player almost immediately. And I get "-" for that, awesome. Guys can spam the boards with "source?", "updates on the future of Spezza?", personally attack other members, use politically incorrect terminology as a means of insulting people, but express your opinions and your hard earned reputation suffers. Thanks. This might be enough to turn someone away, and I can't believe that I would ever feel this way. I used to enjoy coming here.

For whinning about not getting an impact forward with the 16th pick or worse, and thinking you know better than guys who get paid to do this stuff 365? Yeah, a (-) is pretty much well-earned.

...and that "hard earned reputation" is on an internet msg board...grow up.

Dash's point ( and please correct me Dash if I am misspeaking) is that the Draft and July 1 are the only periods really that a fanbase can get energized about their team. Trade deadline is more of a short term solution, whereas July 1 and the Draft (especially the draft) is where teams build for the future. This draft you look at the Senators, and my Devils and both drafts look crappy. At least NJ got Merrill, however I look at this draft as bad after the first 10 picks maybe 15.

Unfortunately that wasn't communicated by TSN, ESPN, the Senators or anyone else frankly. There were some people here who were talking about it not being a good draft year for talent, but outside of that it is easy to see expectations crushed.

Without knowing the guys like Rundblad, and Sorensen it's easy to feel robbed of any excitement. We got 2 forwards 6'2" or taller and a top puck moving Dman in a prospect this year. The last 2 years Murray did an outstanding job drafting and I think he set the precedent.

I don't begrudge anyone who was disappointed with this draft, but all I ask is that you temper either your excitement or anger for about 3 or 4 years to see where it sorts out. This wasn't going to be a knockout draft, it just wasn't built to be that way, and seeing all the players that either went 20 or 30 spots ahead of where they were projected, or further back lend credence to that argument. THere was no consensus, just a lot of different opinions much like this board.

Good on you Dash for speaking your mind, opinions aren't wrong so don't stop.

Devo

That's exactly why my first response to him was one of disbelief for Dash's lack of faith. It's the right of the fan to question management decisions, but quesitoning them without any knowledge of the players they selected and limited knowledge of the players they passed up is nonsense. We don't know what was communicated behind closed doors or on the draft floor, so why be upset or dismayed. Trust the people who are paid the average Canadian salary every month... Trust the people who have been paid to do this for the better part of their professional careers. And, quite frankly, get over yourself. If you knew better than them, you wouldn't be posting your opinions on an internet msg board...

Michallica wrote:

Devo wrote:On one last note..My family has invitations to the prospect camp (not sure how that works right yet, but it's a season ticket thing). If it is not open to the public anyone interested in going?

That's awesome. I'd love to go, but I think some other people on this board would love it way more than me.

There are times when it's only available to season ticket holders, but there's always a few times that are open to the public.

asq2 wrote:I think Eberle should be the future captain, although Hall totally outclasses him as a player.

I can't agree there. Eberle is a character player, but (after listening to him talk at the draft...the conviction...) Hall is the right man to lead that team. I'd put it on him out of training camp.

I got a little sidetracked so I'm not watching the draft right now. Have Volchenkov's rights been dealt yet?

Michallica wrote:Everyone is just afraid. Once we start drafting skilled centers, no one will be against trading Spezza. In a nutshell, most ppl are against trading him due to the lack of depth at that position, and no one on the horizon to come in and take the place. When Yashin got traded, we got that skillful centre back in Spezza. If that type of deal isn't out there, why do the trade? That doesn't mean ppl are oblivious to his careless plays. Most ppl have agreed that if the right trade comes along, u pull the trigger.

I think you need to be a little easier on ppl. And to those who minus you for your opinion, that's extremely stupid and childish. Rather debate it out than do something like that

I just don't like this "the devil we know" attitude. At its base, it's a compromise -- and I don't think we should be building franchises on compromise arrangements. We don't have to settle for a bum just because we're afraid we can't immediately find someone else who will be his (better, younger, more defensively responsible) replacement. I'm sorry, but holding onto the best loser you can find is avoiding the problem, not working towards a solution.

As for being easier on people, I think the only people I'm hard on is our players, especially those players who are marshmallow soft. The funny thing is, tho', how personally some people take criticisms of Spezza. I've never seen people get so emotional about a guy who plays with no emotion whatsoever.

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Everyone is just afraid. Once we start drafting skilled centers, no one will be against trading Spezza. In a nutshell, most ppl are against trading him due to the lack of depth at that position, and no one on the horizon to come in and take the place. When Yashin got traded, we got that skillful centre back in Spezza. If that type of deal isn't out there, why do the trade? That doesn't mean ppl are oblivious to his careless plays. Most ppl have agreed that if the right trade comes along, u pull the trigger.

I think you need to be a little easier on ppl. And to those who minus you for your opinion, that's extremely stupid and childish. Rather debate it out than do something like that

I just don't like this "the devil we know" attitude. At its base, it's a compromise -- and I don't think we should be building franchises on compromise arrangements. We don't have to settle for a bum just because we're afraid we can't immediately find someone else who will be his (better, younger, more defensively responsible) replacement. I'm sorry, but holding onto the best loser you can find is avoiding the problem, not working towards a solution.

As for being easier on people, I think the only people I'm hard on is our players, especially those players who are marshmallow soft. The funny thing is, tho', how personally some people take criticisms of Spezza. I've never seen people get so emotional about a guy who plays with no emotion whatsoever.

First let me preface my response by saying that I am not opposed to trading Spezza if the return is good, not great, but good. Having said that, you seem to be of the opinion that Spezza is a detriment to the team, which is where I disagree. He is by no means someone you can build around, but he certainly adds a dimension to the team that is necessary. I believe we can win with Spezza IF he is one of the top 2 centres on the team, unfortunately for the last several years, he has been the only offensive centre on the team. Bring in another true offensive centre and let's see the results, you might be surprised.

wprager wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Big Ev wrote:I don't think Dash really cares too much about rep, but he is right that it sucks when you get insulted and flamed for simply stating your opinion. Nobody is 100% right here, that's why there are discussions and debates.

Tell that to the people who think this franchise will fall apart without *cough* Spezza.

There is difference of opinion and then there's outright disrespect. Was there any reason for you to insert the little "*cough*" in there other than to make a tiny little jab at someone.

By the way, who here thinks the franchise will fall apart with out Spezza? A few say that it will set them back until they find a 1st line center to replace #19 -- that's not really an opinion as much as it is a fact of NHL life. Unless you are of the opinion that we could get a #1 center in return, you pretty much have to accept that it will be some time before we get one. We all remember the years when Bonk was #1.

This response is a fine case in point.

I take a poke at Spezza, who I think is a marshmallow soft player who may well be holding this franchise down, and it gets interpreted as a personal jab at someone. Why's that? Because criticisms of Spezza are here often get re-translated as attacks on posters who like the guy. I'm sorry, but that's on the other people who feel that Spezza and their personal identity are tied together as one, not me.

The few, very few times I get personal are after someone has repeatedly gotten personal with me. Anyone who reads here frequently and doesn't hate me for hating Spezza knows that that's true.

As for "who thinks the franchise will fall apart without Spezza," I dunno, I'll take a stab and say all those posters here who have said something to the effect that trading Spezza would mean 1) setting the franchise back years, 2) not making the playoffs for x many years, 3) crippling our offense, and/or 4) going into full rebuild mode (a sentiment that has been expressed more than a few times around here). Yeah, when looking for evidence of people thinking the franchise will fall apart without Spezza, I'd start with those types of comments and move outward from there.

RobbyJ wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Everyone is just afraid. Once we start drafting skilled centers, no one will be against trading Spezza. In a nutshell, most ppl are against trading him due to the lack of depth at that position, and no one on the horizon to come in and take the place. When Yashin got traded, we got that skillful centre back in Spezza. If that type of deal isn't out there, why do the trade? That doesn't mean ppl are oblivious to his careless plays. Most ppl have agreed that if the right trade comes along, u pull the trigger.

I think you need to be a little easier on ppl. And to those who minus you for your opinion, that's extremely stupid and childish. Rather debate it out than do something like that

I just don't like this "the devil we know" attitude. At its base, it's a compromise -- and I don't think we should be building franchises on compromise arrangements. We don't have to settle for a bum just because we're afraid we can't immediately find someone else who will be his (better, younger, more defensively responsible) replacement. I'm sorry, but holding onto the best loser you can find is avoiding the problem, not working towards a solution.

As for being easier on people, I think the only people I'm hard on is our players, especially those players who are marshmallow soft. The funny thing is, tho', how personally some people take criticisms of Spezza. I've never seen people get so emotional about a guy who plays with no emotion whatsoever.

First let me preface my response by saying that I am not opposed to trading Spezza if the return is good, not great, but good. Having said that, you seem to be of the opinion that Spezza is a detriment to the team, which is where I disagree. He is by no means someone you can build around, but he certainly adds a dimension to the team that is necessary. I believe we can win with Spezza IF he is one of the top 2 centres on the team, unfortunately for the last several years, he has been the only offensive centre on the team. Bring in another true offensive centre and let's see the results, you might be surprised.

You may be right, and we may well have to test this theory if we get stuck with Spezza, which is unfortunately looking more and more likely. I've said a 1000 times, I've never doubted Spezza's talent -- hell, I used to defend him on that basis alone -- just his head/heart.

If we're stuck with Spezza, I agree, we have to do everything we can to insulate him and create an environment in which he can succeed. That's a project we can start talking about on July 1st at 12:01pm, tho'. Until then, I reserve the right to hope and pray for his departure. Getting a guy like Savard, tho', would be a nice start.

On the issue of trading him, I'm with you. The return has to be good, not great. If it's great, hey, great, but that may not be coming. I wouldn't want to move Spezza for a few salary dumps and some spare parts, tho', and my sense of what's "good" or acceptable may well differ from others.

Anyway, the bottom line for me in terms of keeping Spezza, which sadly looks likely, is that we're playing a very dangerous game in giving this guy absolute control over his future. It's that NTC, and his thin skin as concerns criticism, and his comments about being open to a trade, and his connection to guys like Heatley and Emery, that makes me more than nervous. For me, his contract becomes a ticking timebomb at 12:01pm on July 1st -- it may never go off on us, true, but it'll be a $7 mil timebomb nonetheless. That thought makes me very uncomfortable for the Sens: I don't think a guy like Spezza -- who is not the most mature, the most serious, or it seems the most committed guy out there -- is beyond pulling a Dany Heatley on us before long. Given the fact that he actually told BM that he would be open to a trade really underscores that fact for me. What happens if those feelings come back again and he, and not Murray, is in control of the situation? Dany Heatley part II, that's what.

So, when I intimate that Spezza is a detriment to this team, this is what I have in mind. We know he's not a leader. We know he isn't much of a two-way player, although he is improving there. We know he isn't the most responsible guy when it comes to managing the puck. We know that he's marshmallow soft and will never have the work ethic of a guy like Fisher. We know, too, that he's not a guy you build around -- at least, that's exactly what BM said last week. And we know that he's often irked by the criticism he faces (some of it unearned, sure, but much of it earned), and that he's suggested being open to a trade at least once now. How we can allow (let alone actively campaign for) this guy to be a focal part of our team and our highest paid player when we know all this about him is precisely what baffles me the most.

He's a timebomb waiting to go off. Pass that thing over before we end up with egg all over our faces.

Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

Gohan wrote:

asq2 wrote:I think Eberle should be the future captain, although Hall totally outclasses him as a player.

I can't agree there. Eberle is a character player, but (after listening to him talk at the draft...the conviction...) Hall is the right man to lead that team. I'd put it on him out of training camp.

I think any of the is alright. THe way both play the game, they're gonna rip the northwest apart in a few years IMO. They have the drive for sure to lead EDM to a cup with the right cast around them.

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

This is a well considered response to the serious issues raised above. You have added considerably to the discussion.

And I must correct you: I'll be the happiest man alive that day -- at least if it means Spezza no longer plays for my team.

rooneypoo wrote:

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

This is a well considered response to the serious issues raised above. You have added considerably to the discussion.

And I must correct you: I'll be the happiest man alive that day -- at least if it means Spezza no longer plays for my team.

He's got a point, there are plenty of threads discussing Spezza, no need to have this pop up everywhere.

stempniaksen wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

This is a well considered response to the serious issues raised above. You have added considerably to the discussion.

And I must correct you: I'll be the happiest man alive that day -- at least if it means Spezza no longer plays for my team.

He's got a point, there are plenty of threads discussing Spezza, no need to have this pop up everywhere.

The conversation grew naturally out of the rep point discussion, tho'. it's not like you can compartmentalize these things absolutely; discussion would become impossible. Ideas lead to other ideas. That's how conversations work.

rooneypoo wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

This is a well considered response to the serious issues raised above. You have added considerably to the discussion.

And I must correct you: I'll be the happiest man alive that day -- at least if it means Spezza no longer plays for my team.

He's got a point, there are plenty of threads discussing Spezza, no need to have this pop up everywhere.

The conversation grew naturally out of the rep point discussion, tho'. it's not like you can compartmentalize these things absolutely; discussion would become impossible. Ideas lead to other ideas. That's how conversations work.

I know, but I'm sure some people have gotten to the point where they purposely avoid Spezza talk. So for those people to put up with it might be frustrating.

I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain extent, but I can see where others are coming from.

stempniaksen wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

This is a well considered response to the serious issues raised above. You have added considerably to the discussion.

And I must correct you: I'll be the happiest man alive that day -- at least if it means Spezza no longer plays for my team.

He's got a point, there are plenty of threads discussing Spezza, no need to have this pop up everywhere.

The conversation grew naturally out of the rep point discussion, tho'. it's not like you can compartmentalize these things absolutely; discussion would become impossible. Ideas lead to other ideas. That's how conversations work.

I know, but I'm sure some people have gotten to the point where they purposely avoid Spezza talk. So for those people to put up with it might be frustrating.

I'm playing devil's advocate to a certain extent, but I can see where others are coming from.

Hey, I don't know about you, but I hold conversations with people, not ostriches who bury their head in the sand and pretend this is a non-issue. The decision we make on Spezza will be the biggest one we've made as a franchise since Redden/Chara, perhaps even bigger. I can't help it if some people want to ignore that fact. We talk about it, a lot and often, because it's the biggest issue facing the organization.

It's nowhere near the Redden/Chara issue. Spezza being a part of this team in the future and us wanting to move him = the Savard situation now. You can always get him to waive it and move from there. Maybe the return isn't what it would be now, but I'd rather take that chance personally.

I would say it's up there with the Yashin situation. While Yashin was a hold out, it was clear that he wasn't totally happy in Ottawa, Spezza isn't either.

Trading Yashing was a huge move, as we were trading out #1 Centre. We're asking Murray to do the same...

Without looking anyone remember who our Centre was the year after we traded Yashin?


It was split between Radek Bonk and Todd White.

Looking back we got Chara and Spezza in the deal....so why do we have to get a #1 center back? I'm asking myself as much as anyone else. Could we not get a decent center and a top winger?

It's funny, with Yashin in the lineup (2000-01) the Sens finished 1st in the Division; the next year they finished 3rd. However they lost in the first round with Yashin but advanced to the Conference semis without him. Of course, that may have been because they did not see the Leafs until the semis