2010 NHL Draft

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

I agree with that too but Spezza does actually have pretty good representation from a managment stand point and I dont think he or his agents would allow himself to committ career suicide. Two of his freinds may not ever play another game in The NHL and even the dumbest person on earth probably wouldnt take two unemployeed, recovering coke head's advice. Them saying you should ask for a trade and move on vs demanding one is totally different.

I agree with your stance on Spezza the hockey player but in temrs of him pulling that particular stunt, I think there's a very slim chance of that happening.

beerandsens wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

I completely believe you are right. And truly hope you are wrong

Hey, me too. That's what I've been saying for close to a year now -- I don't want to be right about this, because it will be bad news for OTT, big time. But wishing a thing away doesn't make it go away.

N4L wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

I agree with that too but Spezza does actually have pretty good representation from a managment stand point and I dont think he or his agents would allow himself to committ career suicide. Two of his freinds may not ever play another game in The NHL and even the dumbest person on earth probably wouldnt take two unemployeed, recovering coke head's advice. Them saying you should ask for a trade and move on vs demanding one is totally different.

I agree with your stance on Spezza the hockey player but in temrs of him pulling that particular stunt, I think there's a very slim chance of that happening.

I hope your right. This latest "perhaps we should look into trading me" thing has really got me thinking the worst about the guy. Which is saying something.

And honestly, without Spezza having an NTC teams didnt want much to do with him so I think that was a wake up call for him from a value stand point.

A lot has happend to Spezza in the last 2 years both on and off the ice in Ottawa, sometimes you just gotta see how something plays out. I dont like Spezza as a hockey player and I think he's more trouble then he's worth, but if you are Murray and The Sens, just gotta hope for the best from this point out.

N4L wrote:And honestly, without Spezza having an NTC teams didnt want much to do with him so I think that was a wake up call for him from a value stand point.

A lot has happend to Spezza in the last 2 years both on and off the ice in Ottawa, sometimes you just gotta see how something plays out. I dont like Spezza as a hockey player and I think he's more trouble then he's worth, but if you are Murray and The Sens, just gotta hope for the best from this point out.

That is the attitude we all need to have if Spezza is still on this team after July 1st. But again, until that day comes, I reserve the right to imagine a Spezza-less future for my Sens.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:And honestly, without Spezza having an NTC teams didnt want much to do with him so I think that was a wake up call for him from a value stand point.

A lot has happend to Spezza in the last 2 years both on and off the ice in Ottawa, sometimes you just gotta see how something plays out. I dont like Spezza as a hockey player and I think he's more trouble then he's worth, but if you are Murray and The Sens, just gotta hope for the best from this point out.

That is the attitude we all need to have if Spezza is still on this team after July 1st. But again, until that day comes, I reserve the right to imagine a Spezza-less future for my Sens.

Haha, fair enough, you have about 4 days though. ANyways, I just can see him moving at this point. Im just sick of the whole discussion though, bascially everyone has an opinion on it, some are absolutely moronic on both sides, pro and anti-spezza, and the rest are somewhere in the middle.

Gotta get behind him though because even if one fan is trashing a guy making 7 million for the next 5 years in Ottawa, he isnt doing anyone any favours.

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

Agreed, but there will still be discussions.

Big Ev wrote:

beerandsens wrote:Ugh... this discussion finds its way into nearly every thread. I'm going to be the happiest man on Earth once July 1st arrives.

Agreed, but there will still be discussions.

Even after the 1st, I've come to accept that. I'm not in THAT much denial.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

But those are both tangy; I think it's more Granny Smith and Royal Gala -- both apples, but one is green and sour, and the other reddish-yellow and sweet.

Are you saying the odds are 60/40 that he leaks a "trade me" request, shuts himself up in his cottage, doesn't answer Alfie's calls, says nothing concrete but some vague insinuations?

The two are just very different personalities. He's *never* come out and said anything remotely negative about the organization or the coaching. He's actually come to the defense of a team-mate on the ice (Heatley, by the way) while I don't remember Heatley ever sticking up for someone). I think I just talked myself back into apples/oranges.

wprager wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

But those are both tangy; I think it's more Granny Smith and Royal Gala -- both apples, but one is green and sour, and the other reddish-yellow and sweet.

Are you saying the odds are 60/40 that he leaks a "trade me" request, shuts himself up in his cottage, doesn't answer Alfie's calls, says nothing concrete but some vague insinuations?

The two are just very different personalities. He's *never* come out and said anything remotely negative about the organization or the coaching. He's actually come to the defense of a team-mate on the ice (Heatley, by the way) while I don't remember Heatley ever sticking up for someone). I think I just talked myself back into apples/oranges.

I think I could agree with most of this if it were not for the fact that we know that he told BM "maybe we should look into trading me." That, for me, sends up huge warning bells about his character -- on top of all the other stuff, on and off, that we already know about him.

That's not actually what he said. According to Murray, Spezza would not object to being dealt. While hardly a ringing endorsement of our next Captain, that is not the same as "Maybe we should look into trading me." In fact, we don't even know if Spezza is the one who initiated or if this was in response to Murray's questions.

To be fair, we don't really know what Heatley (or his agent) said, either. We don't even know for sure who said what we don't know was said.

wprager wrote:That's not actually what he said. According to Murray, Spezza would not object to being dealt. While hardly a ringing endorsement of our next Captain, that is not the same as "Maybe we should look into trading me." In fact, we don't even know if Spezza is the one who initiated or if this was in response to Murray's questions.

To be fair, we don't really know what Heatley (or his agent) said, either. We don't even know for sure who said what we don't know was said.

All I know is that Spezza is the one who raised the possibility/topic of his being dealt. However you phrase it, it doesn't look good on him, and it can't help but raise the kinds of questions about his personality that I'm, admittedly, harping on.

You know what's funny, if you go to Hockey's Future, Vladimir Tarasenko is on the Sens page under "other notables".

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:In all honesty, I dont think Spezza pulls the same BS Heatley has. The situations are similar in a sense but different enough that I dont think people have to worry about that one particular scenario.

Spezza hasnt killed anyone (that we know of), he's been drafted and brought through the organization, and fact of the matter is he's probably more important to the team then Heatley could be.

Now, a lot of the other arguements about him never having won anything, perhaps already have peaked in terms of production and overall play, a head case, and so on are all legit.

So its Macintoshs and Granny Smiths -- different kinds of apples, but not apples and oranges as was suggested earlier.

In terms of Spezza pulling a Heatley, I think the odds are currently about 60/40 in favour of him doing it. And I say that based on who his friends are, the nature of his deal and his NTC in particular, where his head is at (in terms of his self-worth, his ego, his sensitivity to criticism), and his generally privileged existence/treatment to date as a hockey player.

But those are both tangy; I think it's more Granny Smith and Royal Gala -- both apples, but one is green and sour, and the other reddish-yellow and sweet.

Are you saying the odds are 60/40 that he leaks a "trade me" request, shuts himself up in his cottage, doesn't answer Alfie's calls, says nothing concrete but some vague insinuations?

The two are just very different personalities. He's *never* come out and said anything remotely negative about the organization or the coaching. He's actually come to the defense of a team-mate on the ice (Heatley, by the way) while I don't remember Heatley ever sticking up for someone). I think I just talked myself back into apples/oranges.

I think I could agree with most of this if it were not for the fact that we know that he told BM "maybe we should look into trading me." That, for me, sends up huge warning bells about his character -- on top of all the other stuff, on and off, that we already know about him.

I don't like Spezza on the ice, I think he's the kind of athlete that
doesn't have what it takes to win, but I don't question his personal character at
all.
He may be paid 7M but he's still human. He's been 6 or 7 years (not sure) with the organization, and that's the first time we've ever heard about requesting a trade, despite being the whipping boy for years. You can only take so much sometimes, unless you're Gary Bettman.
The year end meetings were just at the end of the season and as Murray said he was still "emotional" about it. Seriously, I would question his character if he didn't say anything because it would mean he didn't really care. Spezza was available for interviews, he was in Toronto for a charity stuff and answered questions. Have you seen Heatley last summer anywhere? He evan cancelled a visit with some kids at Silvercity...
I can't see Spezza pulling the same Dung as Heatley at all (0 communication and hiding in his cottage). He entertained the possibilities but part of him still want to stay here I`m sure, now that water have passed under the bridge. UNlike the moron from last year.

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:That's not actually what he said. According to Murray, Spezza would not object to being dealt. While hardly a ringing endorsement of our next Captain, that is not the same as "Maybe we should look into trading me." In fact, we don't even know if Spezza is the one who initiated or if this was in response to Murray's questions.

To be fair, we don't really know what Heatley (or his agent) said, either. We don't even know for sure who said what we don't know was said.

All I know is that Spezza is the one who raised the possibility/topic of his being dealt. However you phrase it, it doesn't look good on him, and it can't help but raise the kinds of questions about his personality that I'm, admittedly, harping on.

That was actually part of my point -- we *don't* know. Could have gone two ways:

#1
JS: Bryan, I wouldn't mind being traded.
BM: Hmm, I see ... and how do you feel about your mother?

#2
BM: Tough way to end the year, eh? Not fun being bood in your own barn during the most important game of the year.
JS: Yeah, it sucks, Bryan. My wife, Jen, sitting there 8 months pregnant, hearing all this. Then I know that idiot with the 'Dutchie' breath and the wrinkled shirt will be around with his usual schtick -- I tell her not to read but, honestly, once in a while I read that crap myself. Pulitzer Prize material -- that ain't it, for sure. All this "Trade him before it's too late" crap and now the fans look like they are on that bandwagon as well -- gotta be honest, if it came to that, I wouldn't stand in your way.

---
Hollywood, here I come

wprager wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

wprager wrote:That's not actually what he said. According to Murray, Spezza would not object to being dealt. While hardly a ringing endorsement of our next Captain, that is not the same as "Maybe we should look into trading me." In fact, we don't even know if Spezza is the one who initiated or if this was in response to Murray's questions.

To be fair, we don't really know what Heatley (or his agent) said, either. We don't even know for sure who said what we don't know was said.

All I know is that Spezza is the one who raised the possibility/topic of his being dealt. However you phrase it, it doesn't look good on him, and it can't help but raise the kinds of questions about his personality that I'm, admittedly, harping on.

That was actually part of my point -- we *don't* know. Could have gone two ways:

#1
JS: Bryan, I wouldn't mind being traded.
BM: Hmm, I see ... and how do you feel about your mother?

#2
BM: Tough way to end the year, eh? Not fun being bood in your own barn during the most important game of the year.
JS: Yeah, it sucks, Bryan. My wife, Jen, sitting there 8 months pregnant, hearing all this. Then I know that idiot with the 'Dutchie' breath and the wrinkled shirt will be around with his usual schtick -- I tell her not to read but, honestly, once in a while I read that crap myself. Pulitzer Prize material -- that ain't it, for sure. All this "Trade him before it's too late" crap and now the fans look like they are on that bandwagon as well -- gotta be honest, if it came to that, I wouldn't stand in your way.

---
Hollywood, here I come

Well, we do have BM's account, which was pretty unambiguous. Jason raised the idea during the exit interviews, BM dismissed it, reminding him that 'it doesn't work that way, you're under contract and made a long-term commitment to this franchise.' I don't know about you, but I listened to that audio last week about 4 times.

I just listened to the last three Bryan Murray audio clips on NHL_Sens twitter and I just don't hear what you say you heard.

Reporter: Did he ask for a trade?
Murray: Ah, he said he wouldn't object to one. He didn't come in and say I have to be traded. He didn't object to the fact that maybe it's time, he said, you know the way I've been received now and that maybe it's time that I look around. And I said, well, unfortunately that just doesn't happen. You've signed a long term contract. We have committed to you, you have committed to us, we will look at every thing that's going to help out hockey team, but I'm not going to make a bad trade.


Since Jason is not a free agent, I have to assume that the bolded I in the transcript above was meant to be Murray, not Spezza.

Puck Daddy

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/What-We-Learned-Chiarelli-s-problem-NHL-Draft-;_ylt=AjP096WJII5dJcgZxt1O.BF.ppJ4?urn=nhl,251875

Ottawa Senators: Losers. Maybe you're the kinda guy that really really loves David Rundblad, but the Blues aren't exactly overflowing with forward talent, so why would they deal him? Otherwise, the Sens had just four picks, none in the first two rounds, and then they take a big body with little to no evident skill in Jakub Culek. The kid had 13 goals and was eighth on his team in scoring last year. In the QMJHL!

Spot the brain fart