Ottawa Senators off-season talk

asq2 wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

The only issue is his health. He would easily have broken 80 points this past season if he was healthy the whole time. Under Hartsburg this team was dead last offensively and he still ended up only missing the mark by 2 points.

Guy produces. It's the defensive side of things and the whole taking charge/responsibility in the offensive zone that's eluded him.

Kesler would assuredly not be the #1 centre, though. He's more useful as a checker anyway.

Either way the point I was making is that Spezza hasnt produced at the rate he should be for well over 2 years now based on the fact his only real asset is his offence.

Richards is probably better as a check too but he's still a number 1 center. Kesler would absolutely be the go to center in Ottawa in the current state of The Sens. Kesler is a better player then Spezza and honestly, there isnt or shouldnt be a whole lot of debate about that. Kesler is a fantastic all around player.

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:Spezza's perfect role is probably a number 2 center, not sure if a true number 1 is coming though.

You don't trust Murray to get us a number one center and designate Spezza to a number 2 role?

IMO it has to be developed.

And...you don't think that'll be done in Ottawa? We all see what Murray is doing, he's changing the dynamics of this team one step at a time. I'm 99.99% sure the next thing is to bring in an actual 2nd line center - even if it's Cullen and can be interchanged with Fisher OR Spezza.

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

So you're saying that Spezza works his Donkey off to get to 75 points?

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:Spezza's perfect role is probably a number 2 center, not sure if a true number 1 is coming though.

You don't trust Murray to get us a number one center and designate Spezza to a number 2 role?

IMO it has to be developed.

And...you don't think that'll be done in Ottawa? We all see what Murray is doing, he's changing the dynamics of this team one step at a time. I'm 99.99% sure the next thing is to bring in an actual 2nd line center - even if it's Cullen and can be interchanged with Fisher OR Spezza.

3, 4 years you might see a guy come along unless Regin does it soon.

Like I said before unless it's an internal issue with Spezza I dont think they should be dealing him because in the right circumstance he could be a very valuable player, but you have to move one of Fisher or Spezza and fill that role with a guy who at least has a shot to become a number 1 guy. Fisher isnt a number 1, no shot and Spezza, well he struggles with that position on the team when it matters.

If The Sens win The Cup or even challenge for it, it will be based on solid goaltending and a defense first mentality. Spezza or whoe evr else will be a product of a very disaplined team game that involves a ton of speed and a ton of determination.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

So you're saying that Spezza works his Donkey off to get to 75 points?

During the stretch when he came back this year and he tore it up, absolutely. With Heatley and Alfi, absolutely not. That was an absolutely perfect situation for him at the time and he cashed in based on that.

Now, absolutely Spezza has to work his Donkey off to get to 75 points or more, he has to. He doesnt have the same weapons around him that he used to nor does he get that same time and space.

N4L wrote:
3, 4 years you might see a guy come along unless Regin does it soon.

Like I said before unless it's an internal issue with Spezza I dont think they should be dealing him because in the right circumstance he could be a very valuable player, but you have to move one of Fisher or Spezza and fill that role with a guy who at least has a shot to become a number 1 guy. Fisher isnt a number 1, no shot and Spezza, well he struggles with that position on the team when it matters.

If The Sens win The Cup or even challenge for it, it will be based on solid goaltending and a defense first mentality. Spezza or whoe evr else will be a product of a very disaplined team game that involves a ton of speed and a ton of determination.

That's it, yeah.

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

So you're saying that Spezza works his Donkey off to get to 75 points?

During the stretch when he came back this year and he tore it up, absolutely. With Heatley and Alfi, absolutely not. That was an absolutely perfect situation for him at the time and he cashed in based on that.

Now, absolutely Spezza has to work his Donkey off to get to 75 points or more, he has to. He doesnt have the same weapons around him that he used to nor does he get that same time and space.

That's good because if he isn't leading offensively, at least he's leading by example.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
3, 4 years you might see a guy come along unless Regin does it soon.

Like I said before unless it's an internal issue with Spezza I dont think they should be dealing him because in the right circumstance he could be a very valuable player, but you have to move one of Fisher or Spezza and fill that role with a guy who at least has a shot to become a number 1 guy. Fisher isnt a number 1, no shot and Spezza, well he struggles with that position on the team when it matters.

If The Sens win The Cup or even challenge for it, it will be based on solid goaltending and a defense first mentality. Spezza or whoe evr else will be a product of a very disaplined team game that involves a ton of speed and a ton of determination.

That's it, yeah.

Spezza produces like a number 1 center, it doesnt mean he fulls the role of a Richards, Toews, Datsyuk, Crosby, or whoever else. A lot of people ignore the fact that these guys have extremely strong 2 way games. Points are not all that matters and that's what people get wrapped up about when they talk about Spezza.

Anyone who says Spezza isnt as tallented as the best in the league, that's BS, he is. Anyone who says Spezza is on par with the guys considered the best in the league, well that's BS as well. Im not even saying Spezza doesnt work as hard as a lot of those guys, but there is working hard and there is working smart... the most over rated part of his game is when people say "he's a smart player", no he isnt, he's creative. In actuality he's a dumby on the ice compared to A LOT of players in The NHL, not just the best.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

So you're saying that Spezza works his Donkey off to get to 75 points?

During the stretch when he came back this year and he tore it up, absolutely. With Heatley and Alfi, absolutely not. That was an absolutely perfect situation for him at the time and he cashed in based on that.

Now, absolutely Spezza has to work his Donkey off to get to 75 points or more, he has to. He doesnt have the same weapons around him that he used to nor does he get that same time and space.

That's good because if he isn't leading offensively, at least he's leading by example.

Gonna have to do it for more then 28 games. Playoffs might be a good start but everyone is working hard at that point.

Spezza isnt a guy that's going to be a captain, a leader, or whatever else people try to lable him as. He's a good player with a ton of tallent that is not made to be a number 1 center. He's a Rebiero, Thornton, Savrd type player. A guy who will produce but cant always be counted on and should just be left to do his thing, problem is, number 1 centers cant just be left to "do their thing". They have to be the most responsible player on the ice, usually the hardest working, and some sort of leader.

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:

Urkie wrote:

N4L wrote:Well he hasnt done it for over 2 seasons now so... it cant be all that easy for him.

Nope, I dont think Sedin wins The Art Ross without Kessler. If Kessler is in Ottawa, he's the number 1 center.

You can't question Spezza's offensive talents N4L. He produces and is the teams offensive leader. It's the defensive aspects of his game that hurt him most as others have mentioned.

He missed over 20 games this season and was playing hurt to start the year so you can't really fault him for not getting over 75 points. He also had to adjust his game post Heatley and that took a bit of time as it would for anybody. The season before was just a nightmare for everybody on the team so to single him out is short sighted. When he came back from his injury in January he started to play like he can and was a big reason for the second half surge.

But lets just look at the negatives in his game like you always do...

I dont deny he has a ton of offensive tallent, hell, im the one that says he has more tallent then 95% of the guys in The NHL today. I simply replied to someone who said he gets to 75 points and makes it look easy... well he hasnt done it in two years so how is that statement have any merit at all?

Spezza's other issue is staying healthy and he can not play through pain or injury, this year was a perfect example of that. When he's healthy in the regular season, he's tough to stop, probably a top 5 center in that aspect. I wont deny it nor will I ignore it. I also wont ignore the fact that when games get tougher, the compition level gets higher, Spezza either shy's away or becomes totally irresponsible on the ice... that's basically playoff hockey and that offensive tallent he has, a lot of it gets thrown out the window because he gets warn down and out worked by the other team.

The bolded part is BS, I look at the most important things in terms of the actual team and the actual games played. Game 52 of the regular season isnt as important as game 4 at home in the playoffs. The team game Spezza struggles with and has for a long time, there is no evidence that is changing at a pace that will turn The Sens into a contender anytime soon.

So you're saying that Spezza works his Donkey off to get to 75 points?

During the stretch when he came back this year and he tore it up, absolutely. With Heatley and Alfi, absolutely not. That was an absolutely perfect situation for him at the time and he cashed in based on that.

Now, absolutely Spezza has to work his Donkey off to get to 75 points or more, he has to. He doesnt have the same weapons around him that he used to nor does he get that same time and space.

That's good because if he isn't leading offensively, at least he's leading by example.

Gonna have to do it for more then 28 games. Playoffs might be a good start but everyone is working hard at that point.

Spezza isnt a guy that's going to be a captain, a leader, or whatever else people try to lable him as. He's a good player with a ton of tallent that is not made to be a number 1 center. He's a Rebiero, Thornton, Savrd type player. A guy who will produce but cant always be counted on and should just be left to do his thing, problem is, number 1 centers cant just be left to "do their thing". They have to be the most responsible player on the ice, usually the hardest working, and some sort of leader.

I'm pretty sure the "leader" tag has been hung on just about everybody but Spezza so we have plenty of that. Scoring? Not so much.

I dont think Spezza needs to be a leader, you're right. A 1st line center does though.

Like I said, a 1st line center is the guy out there in the last min of play in every situation, a guy that can be depended on to make the right choices and the right times, and a guy who can get somewhere between 65-80 points.

Spezza is a complimentry guy that ideally should be part of a 1 A, 1 B tandom. Some guys get by with players like Fisher as a number 2 center, Spezza cant.

When people say "Spezza needs more help then Mike Fisher" I agree. But Fisher is a legit number 2 center.

N4L wrote:I dont think Spezza needs to be a leader, you're right. A 1st line center does though.

Like I said, a 1st line center is the guy out there in the last min of play in every situation, a guy that can be depended on to make the right choices and the right times, and a guy who can get somewhere between 65-80 points.

Spezza is a complimentry guy that ideally should be part of a 1 A, 1 B tandom. Some guys get by with players like Fisher as a number 2 center, Spezza cant.

When people say "Spezza needs more help then Mike Fisher" I agree. But Fisher is a legit number 2 center.

So, on the Penguins, they win the Cup with Fisher instead of Malkin AND Staal is #3 behind Fisher? Wow.

Nope, but in Chicago they win with Sharp who is very similar to Fisher. Who was Carolina's number 2? Who was Anahiem's? Talk about them too if you would like to pick and choose ONE cup winner over the last 10 years.

N4L wrote:Nope, but in Chicago they win with Sharp who is very similar to Fisher.

Only a lot better.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:Nope, but in Chicago they win with Sharp who is very similar to Fisher.

Only a lot better.

No he isnt, haha. Sharp is a very nice player and perhaps a little better then Fisher, but it's minimal to say the least.

N4L wrote:Nope, but in Chicago they win with Sharp who is very similar to Fisher. Who was Carolina's number 2? Who was Anahiem's? Talk about them too if you would like to pick and choose ONE cup winner over the last 10 years.

Andy McDonald was Anaheim's. Carolina won by accident and Sharp is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Fisher.

Andy McDonald was number 1. Getzlaf was 20 years old and not even close to being the player he is today. Call Carolina an accident but they still won and managed to do it with a solid team.

Pitts wouldnt have won without those 3 because they have nothing else. It's like saying NJ wouldnt have won without Neidamayer, Stevens, and Danyko, well no Dung.

Sharp is not waaaaaaay better then Fisher, they are very, very similar.