GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:it is not just elliots fault but to say that he has no blame is just being ignorant of the facts yes spezza had a bad game made a horrible play but most of the team was out to lunch and picking tee times last night elliot needs to play good for more than one period and the team needs to play as a whole

Point is Spezza was horrible this entire playoff. He talks all the time about wanting to be the guy, up for the challenge, so on. But when the opportunities present themselves, where is he? No show.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:Seriously, haha, how mnay saves does he have to make for it to actually be the big save. Elliott got burned last night bu his team and he fell apart like a rookie, which is basically what he is.

Seems to me that every goal should have been a "big save" and the "big saves" are simply forgotten.

Anyway, we ALL knew what the TEAM had to do to win and they didn't. Even more frustrating is that they proved that they could have done what they should have all along, only too late.

The team defensivly was awful, that falls on everyone.

I wonder what Kevin Lee is doing right now.

DirtyDave wrote:I wonder what Kevin Lee is doing right now.

Lying.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Kelly is the one I think gets moved to make room for Smith. There was an old rumor I heard that Kelly would be a nice fit in Edmonton a couple of years ago. With their rebuild going forward he would provide them the leadership and character we all cherish here to their young guys. He would also give them that 3rd line and PK center they have needed for some time. Kovalev would be another piece I would look to move. Its a shame he got hurt as it would have been nice to see how he played during the playoffs.

Phoenix30 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Kelly is the one I think gets moved to make room for Smith. There was an old rumor I heard that Kelly would be a nice fit in Edmonton a couple of years ago. With their rebuild going forward he would provide them the leadership and character we all cherish here to their young guys. He would also give them that 3rd line and PK center they have needed for some time. Kovalev would be another piece I would look to move. Its a shame he got hurt as it would have been nice to see how he played during the playoffs.

I would explore offering Kelly, Kovalev and Foligno to Dallas for Richards, Grossman and a pick.

Not because I want to get rid of Kelly but because Fisher isn't going anywhere.

Phoenix30 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Kelly is the one I think gets moved to make room for Smith. There was an old rumor I heard that Kelly would be a nice fit in Edmonton a couple of years ago. With their rebuild going forward he would provide them the leadership and character we all cherish here to their young guys. He would also give them that 3rd line and PK center they have needed for some time. Kovalev would be another piece I would look to move. Its a shame he got hurt as it would have been nice to see how he played during the playoffs.

no way.. sorry.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
I would explore offering Kelly, Kovalev and Foligno to Dallas for Richards, Grossman and a pick.

Not because I want to get rid of Kelly but because Fisher isn't going anywhere.

I would do that without blinking an eye.

i'd get rid of Foligno before Kelly

N4L wrote:Did he choke? He won his first game, was great in the second game, 3rd game he wasnt great, given. But he did bounce back last night and made big saves early (exactly what was asked of him) and kept his team in it until Spezza sent Crosby in on a break away.

Could he have been better? Yup. Did he improve when he was asked to and when he had to be? He did. Brodure is falling apart, Luongo is falling apart. Elliott got thrown to the wolves last night and the wheels fell off his game completely. At worst this is a good expierence for Elliott who now knows what the playoffs are like.

Agreed, and hopefully Murray goes out and moves Leclaire in the off season. If Elliott is the guy moving forward he needs a very reliable and experienced back up behind him. Turco, Biron, Legace, Osgood are all guys who I think can really help Elliott along yet step in with no problems.

I think I'd consider going after Boyes since I heard St Louis may want to move him

My buddy says that Mike Fisher's NMC becomes a limited NTC this summer where Fisher submits a list of 8 teams he would approve a trade to.

May I ask why we should keep Mike at this juncture? I mean, he's a big boy, he can play the game well and he's ultimately a 20+ goal man. However, how many other guys could take his spot for less money? Cullen? Z.Smith? When Fisher isn't scoring - like now - he's useless as titties on a bull.

I would finally consider shedding that 4.2 million this summer - providing you get an offer that makes the Sens better.

EDIT: Diddle, the list of 8 teams kicks in next summer.

SpezDispenser wrote:
Because Spezza's playing like crap and because the Pens are tap dancing on our heads. In the regular season (which is pretty important in respect to even making the playoffs) if you saunter out Mike Fisher or Cullen or Regin as your top line center, teams are laughing at you. You might win some games, but our non-existent offense would be the joke of the league. Which part of Spezza's PPG this year baffles you?

All three, apparently.

Look, Spez, give up. Neely has a hate-on for Spezza and we can all understand it. Spezza is a loser, never won anything since 15, never will win anything, always has had everything handed to him, team will never win with him as their #1, blah blah blah. Some of those things are legitimate concerns, some are blatant exaggerations. But don't think for one second that you will be able to sway his opinion. Also, don't think for a nano-second that his opinion needs to be swayed.

We've got a veteran hockey guy running things and he will do whatever he thinks is the best for the club. Unfortunately that may not be what we want, because a large component of running the club is the business side, so all hockey decisions have to pass a financial filter. To that end, it's extremely unlikely that we will blow this team up and start from scratch. I'm OK with that. We've definite progress recently. Better coaching, better system (although lacking consistency) and some good young talent.

My opinion, which matters very little, is we need to replace the following players:

- Fisher:
Love the guy, but he's terribly inconsistent, refuses to play where he is best suited and can best help this team, and almost completely disappears in the playoffs, despite his style being almost exactly what you would think the playoffs required. WTH? I'll miss him (and Carrie) but after finally scoring 25 goals we can probably get a decent return for him.

- Volchenkov:
- Another guy I love, but dammit, I want *some* offense from my D. That play, blame Spezza all you like, but any one of our other 7 defensemen (I include Lee and Kuba in there) would have read that play and moved up a foot to grab that puck. He is going to ask for $4.5+ and I'm just not there.

- Foligno:
I've really been unimpressed with him this post-season. He doesn't do much in the regular season, but I thought his style of play would be well suited for the playoffs. Instead, he's been exposed for his severe lack of speed. Neil can skate circles around him, for crying out loud.

- Kuba:
Sorry, but just as I like a little offense from the D, I like a little toughness as well. The guy's got size but refuses to use it. We don't need more than 1 player like that. I'd rather go with a young back-end and miss the playoffs one more time then continue paying this guy all that money for playing shinny.

I would not move Spezza unless we got another 1st line center coming back, or we had one ready to step in. We aren't going to get anyone for him that would be an upgrade, and, sorry but Regin is not there yet; probably will never be more than a 2nd line center.

Obviously there are others (Shannon, Donovan) that have no place here, and some that I'm still scratching my head over (Lee, Cheechoo).

I'm not sure what to do with Leclaire. He's shown stuff I haven't seen from a goalie in Ottawa since Hasek; unfortunately he's shown lots of other stuff as well. I was never sold on him when he first came over, but at this point maybe it's best to keep him and hope for a rebound (force him to wear his mask on the bench, and if Fisher is traded he'll be injury-free).

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Will Bryan Murray have the stones to trade Spezza? And if so, who could he possibly find to replace his offense? Be prepared, because this is the question that will be asked from now until training camp.

Playoff offense or regualr season offense? Who's going to replace his big 50 points? Who's going to replace his 70 from the year before? Who knows but it's not a big deal. Who repalced Heatley's goals from last year? No on really but we made the playoffs didnt they.

If Michalek stayed injury free this year and based on what Heatley put up this year and last, Michalek would be the guy to replace most of them. Combine that with his lesser salary I am happy with his effort. Hopefully a good rehab this summer he'll want to come back next season (hopefully injury free) and show everyone why Murray took got him.

What about?

Zanon, Havlat and Brunnett

for

A train, Kovalev and Foligno

DirtyDave wrote:i'd get rid of Foligno before Kelly

Yep. Foligno has lost a lot of stock. If he put half as much effort into skating as he did in his yapping, maybe. We could still get something for him from Buffalo, maybe.

Phoenix30 wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Will Bryan Murray have the stones to trade Spezza? And if so, who could he possibly find to replace his offense? Be prepared, because this is the question that will be asked from now until training camp.

Playoff offense or regualr season offense? Who's going to replace his big 50 points? Who's going to replace his 70 from the year before? Who knows but it's not a big deal. Who repalced Heatley's goals from last year? No on really but we made the playoffs didnt they.

If Michalek stayed injury free this year and based on what Heatley put up this year and last, Michalek would be the guy to replace most of them. Combine that with his lesser salary I am happy with his effort. Hopefully a good rehab this summer he'll want to come back next season (hopefully injury free) and show everyone why Murray took got him.

Who's passing Michalek the puck? Surely not Mike Fisher?

DirtyDave wrote:What about?

Zanon, Havlat and Brunnett

for

A train, Kovalev and Foligno

Not quite that deal, but I'd do Foligno and Kovalev for Havlat and a pick.

Problem is, Havlat choked for Minny when they needed him the most. He had 1 goal in 14 games or something atrocious like that. However, I've wanted Havlat back on this team for a long time now. He's part of the answer

And I'm sure he wouldn't have an issue playing LW.