GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

DirtyDave wrote:i'd get rid of Foligno before Kelly

Phoenix30 wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Will Bryan Murray have the stones to trade Spezza? And if so, who could he possibly find to replace his offense? Be prepared, because this is the question that will be asked from now until training camp.

Playoff offense or regualr season offense? Who's going to replace his big 50 points? Who's going to replace his 70 from the year before? Who knows but it's not a big deal. Who repalced Heatley's goals from last year? No on really but we made the playoffs didnt they.

If Michalek stayed injury free this year and based on what Heatley put up this year and last, Michalek would be the guy to replace most of them. Combine that with his lesser salary I am happy with his effort. Hopefully a good rehab this summer he'll want to come back next season (hopefully injury free) and show everyone why Murray took got him.

DirtyDave wrote:What about?

Zanon, Havlat and Brunnett

for

A train, Kovalev and Foligno

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
Haha you have to be kidding? You act like that 2nd goal wasnt the dagger, it was man. Anyways, Ill let you be with what ever view it is you have. It's nice knowing I was right about Spezza, he did exactly what I said he would end up doing when it mattered, and he did.

You act like the only player to fail last night was Spezza. You would be wrong.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Will Bryan Murray have the stones to trade Spezza? And if so, who could he possibly find to replace his offense? Be prepared, because this is the question that will be asked from now until training camp.

Playoff offense or regualr season offense? Who's going to replace his big 50 points? Who's going to replace his 70 from the year before? Who knows but it's not a big deal. Who repalced Heatley's goals from last year? No on really but we made the playoffs didnt they.

If Michalek stayed injury free this year and based on what Heatley put up this year and last, Michalek would be the guy to replace most of them. Combine that with his lesser salary I am happy with his effort. Hopefully a good rehab this summer he'll want to come back next season (hopefully injury free) and show everyone why Murray took got him.

Who's passing Michalek the puck? Surely not Mike Fisher?

wprager wrote:
We've got a veteran hockey guy running things and he will do whatever he thinks is the best for the club. Unfortunately that may not be what we want, because a large component of running the club is the business side, so all hockey decisions have to pass a financial filter. To that end, it's extremely unlikely that we will blow this team up and start from scratch. I'm OK with that. We've definite progress recently. Better coaching, better system (although lacking consistency) and some good young talent.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Because Spezza's playing like crap and because the Pens are tap dancing on our heads. In the regular season (which is pretty important in respect to even making the playoffs) if you saunter out Mike Fisher or Cullen or Regin as your top line center, teams are laughing at you. You might win some games, but our non-existent offense would be the joke of the league. Which part of Spezza's PPG this year baffles you?

All three, apparently.

Look, Spez, give up. Neely has a hate-on for Spezza and we can all understand it. Spezza is a loser, never won anything since 15, never will win anything, always has had everything handed to him, team will never win with him as their #1, blah blah blah. Some of those things are legitimate concerns, some are blatant exaggerations. But don't think for one second that you will be able to sway his opinion. Also, don't think for a nano-second that his opinion needs to be swayed.

We've got a veteran hockey guy running things and he will do whatever he thinks is the best for the club. Unfortunately that may not be what we want, because a large component of running the club is the business side, so all hockey decisions have to pass a financial filter. To that end, it's extremely unlikely that we will blow this team up and start from scratch. I'm OK with that. We've definite progress recently. Better coaching, better system (although lacking consistency) and some good young talent.

My opinion, which matters very little, is we need to replace the following players:

- Fisher:
Love the guy, but he's terribly inconsistent, refuses to play where he is best suited and can best help this team, and almost completely disappears in the playoffs, despite his style being almost exactly what you would think the playoffs required. WTH? I'll miss him (and Carrie) but after finally scoring 25 goals we can probably get a decent return for him.

- Volchenkov:
- Another guy I love, but dammit, I want *some* offense from my D. That play, blame Spezza all you like, but any one of our other 7 defensemen (I include Lee and Kuba in there) would have read that play and moved up a foot to grab that puck. He is going to ask for $4.5+ and I'm just not there.

- Foligno:
I've really been unimpressed with him this post-season. He doesn't do much in the regular season, but I thought his style of play would be well suited for the playoffs. Instead, he's been exposed for his severe lack of speed. Neil can skate circles around him, for crying out loud.

- Kuba:
Sorry, but just as I like a little offense from the D, I like a little toughness as well. The guy's got size but refuses to use it. We don't need more than 1 player like that. I'd rather go with a young back-end and miss the playoffs one more time then continue paying this guy all that money for playing shinny.

I would not move Spezza unless we got another 1st line center coming back, or we had one ready to step in. We aren't going to get anyone for him that would be an upgrade, and, sorry but Regin is not there yet; probably will never be more than a 2nd line center.

Obviously there are others (Shannon, Donovan) that have no place here, and some that I'm still scratching my head over (Lee, Cheechoo).

I'm not sure what to do with Leclaire. He's shown stuff I haven't seen from a goalie in Ottawa since Hasek; unfortunately he's shown lots of other stuff as well. I was never sold on him when he first came over, but at this point maybe it's best to keep him and hope for a rebound (force him to wear his mask on the bench, and if Fisher is traded he'll be injury-free).

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Kelly is the one I think gets moved to make room for Smith. There was an old rumor I heard that Kelly would be a nice fit in Edmonton a couple of years ago. With their rebuild going forward he would provide them the leadership and character we all cherish here to their young guys. He would also give them that 3rd line and PK center they have needed for some time. Kovalev would be another piece I would look to move. Its a shame he got hurt as it would have been nice to see how he played during the playoffs.

I would explore offering Kelly, Kovalev and Foligno to Dallas for Richards, Grossman and a pick.

Not because I want to get rid of Kelly but because Fisher isn't going anywhere.

wprager wrote:Another argument for keeping Spezza -- remember what happened when we lost or moved Chara, Redden, Meszaros (plus Corvo, Preissing, Schneider). Our D went into a huge funk that we still haven't recovered from.

Over the last few years we've lost a lot of forwards (in no particular order) Havlat, Heatley, Vermette, Hossa, the pending UFAs we signed (including Cullen this year -- don't kid yourselves, he's not coming back). We'll lost Kovalev soon, and who knows if Michalek will still be top-six after yet another knee surgery. Those are all top-six and that's a lot of turnover.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Will Bryan Murray have the stones to trade Spezza? And if so, who could he possibly find to replace his offense? Be prepared, because this is the question that will be asked from now until training camp.

Playoff offense or regualr season offense? Who's going to replace his big 50 points? Who's going to replace his 70 from the year before? Who knows but it's not a big deal. Who repalced Heatley's goals from last year? No on really but we made the playoffs didnt they.

If Michalek stayed injury free this year and based on what Heatley put up this year and last, Michalek would be the guy to replace most of them. Combine that with his lesser salary I am happy with his effort. Hopefully a good rehab this summer he'll want to come back next season (hopefully injury free) and show everyone why Murray took got him.

Who's passing Michalek the puck? Surely not Mike Fisher?

Yeah but Michalek doesn't really play off his linemates anyway. He kind of gets his goals off individual rushes.

wprager wrote:DirtyDave, I see you didn't keep Donovan either. Yes, he's cheap, but he barely played this year and when he did, he did not do much after his injury. He's not coming back.

I pretty much agree with your list. Didn't think I'd be up for keeping Campoli after November, but he's come around and has been playing well. I think I'd keep Alfie, too, just play him less. I wouldn't spill any tears if Ruutu was moved, though. I liked what Smith was doing in terms of pissing off the opposition. Frankly, if I don't have to explain to anyone why I support a player who bites others, I would not be too upset.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Because Spezza's playing like crap and because the Pens are tap dancing on our heads. In the regular season (which is pretty important in respect to even making the playoffs) if you saunter out Mike Fisher or Cullen or Regin as your top line center, teams are laughing at you. You might win some games, but our non-existent offense would be the joke of the league. Which part of Spezza's PPG this year baffles you?

All three, apparently.

Look, Spez, give up. Neely has a hate-on for Spezza and we can all understand it. Spezza is a loser, never won anything since 15, never will win anything, always has had everything handed to him, team will never win with him as their #1, blah blah blah. Some of those things are legitimate concerns, some are blatant exaggerations. But don't think for one second that you will be able to sway his opinion. Also, don't think for a nano-second that his opinion needs to be swayed.

We've got a veteran hockey guy running things and he will do whatever he thinks is the best for the club. Unfortunately that may not be what we want, because a large component of running the club is the business side, so all hockey decisions have to pass a financial filter. To that end, it's extremely unlikely that we will blow this team up and start from scratch. I'm OK with that. We've definite progress recently. Better coaching, better system (although lacking consistency) and some good young talent.

My opinion, which matters very little, is we need to replace the following players:

- Fisher:
Love the guy, but he's terribly inconsistent, refuses to play where he is best suited and can best help this team, and almost completely disappears in the playoffs, despite his style being almost exactly what you would think the playoffs required. WTH? I'll miss him (and Carrie) but after finally scoring 25 goals we can probably get a decent return for him.

- Volchenkov:
- Another guy I love, but dammit, I want *some* offense from my D. That play, blame Spezza all you like, but any one of our other 7 defensemen (I include Lee and Kuba in there) would have read that play and moved up a foot to grab that puck. He is going to ask for $4.5+ and I'm just not there.

- Foligno:
I've really been unimpressed with him this post-season. He doesn't do much in the regular season, but I thought his style of play would be well suited for the playoffs. Instead, he's been exposed for his severe lack of speed. Neil can skate circles around him, for crying out loud.

- Kuba:
Sorry, but just as I like a little offense from the D, I like a little toughness as well. The guy's got size but refuses to use it. We don't need more than 1 player like that. I'd rather go with a young back-end and miss the playoffs one more time then continue paying this guy all that money for playing shinny.

I would not move Spezza unless we got another 1st line center coming back, or we had one ready to step in. We aren't going to get anyone for him that would be an upgrade, and, sorry but Regin is not there yet; probably will never be more than a 2nd line center.

Obviously there are others (Shannon, Donovan) that have no place here, and some that I'm still scratching my head over (Lee, Cheechoo).

I'm not sure what to do with Leclaire. He's shown stuff I haven't seen from a goalie in Ottawa since Hasek; unfortunately he's shown lots of other stuff as well. I was never sold on him when he first came over, but at this point maybe it's best to keep him and hope for a rebound (force him to wear his mask on the bench, and if Fisher is traded he'll be injury-free).

DirtyDave wrote:

wprager wrote:DirtyDave, I see you didn't keep Donovan either. Yes, he's cheap, but he barely played this year and when he did, he did not do much after his injury. He's not coming back.

I pretty much agree with your list. Didn't think I'd be up for keeping Campoli after November, but he's come around and has been playing well. I think I'd keep Alfie, too, just play him less. I wouldn't spill any tears if Ruutu was moved, though. I liked what Smith was doing in terms of pissing off the opposition. Frankly, if I don't have to explain to anyone why I support a player who bites others, I would not be too upset.

ya i didn't keep him cause he's too old.. Sens have some friggen old players on their roster. Sens D is going to be good in the future.. I'm very concerned about their forwards.

DirtyDave wrote:We should make a pitch at Marleau.. he could seriously help here my proposed offers