GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Outside of scoring the gold winning goal Crosby was virtually invisible against elite talent. If he's so dominating he should have been skating circles around the best of the best in Vancouver. 1 big goal, regardless of how big, doesn't erase the rest of that Olympic performance in my eyes. Mario Lemieux was off the charts good in his World Cup and Olympic gold performances and was truly dominant on the big stage.

I don't think you can appreciate how hard it is to go up against Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom and win a 7 game series, or you wouldn't be saying that. I also think it may have slipped your mind that Crosby was a massive factor in the 7 games series win over the Caps - who have their fair share of elite talent.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
It's tough to take you seriously when you jump on band wagons like you change your underwear. First it was AO and how the game of Hockey was invented because this guy was eventually going to be born and lace them up to play and now Crosby is the best player to ever step onto the ice? Not buyin' it.

Have you not watched? Crosby turn it up when the chips are down, turns it up! Ovechkin has faded in the face of adversity lately, but these two guys are generational talents. The best of this era. Are they on par with Gretzky and Lemieux? Absolutely. Are they better? Impossible to actually say that for certain, but all one has to do it watch them to get a sense of how incredible they are.

I have watched and I watched Mario Lemieux very closely as he's my favourite all time NHL player so my view of him is of course biased. You flat out said Crosby is the best player in history and are now saying it's impossible to say for certain. Crosby may yet be one of the best elite to ever play but he's not there yet IMO. He's top 5 of players still playing today but best in the history of the game? Give him time to build a career first before you anoint him the best ever.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Outside of scoring the gold winning goal Crosby was virtually invisible against elite talent. If he's so dominating he should have been skating circles around the best of the best in Vancouver. 1 big goal, regardless of how big, doesn't erase the rest of that Olympic performance in my eyes. Mario Lemieux was off the charts good in his World Cup and Olympic gold performances and was truly dominant on the big stage.

I don't think you can appreciate how hard it is to go up against Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom and win a 7 game series, or you wouldn't be saying that. I also think it may have slipped your mind that Crosby was a massive factor in the 7 games series win over the Caps - who have their fair share of elite talent.

But Crosby is on another level and the best in history right? I wasn't talking about the Stanley Cup I was talking Olympics when the best of the best are on the ice and the top players to ever play the game excel and dominate, if they are the best ever, in situations like that. Crosby did not. Not saying he won't or can't as he's still very early in his career.

Just look at the Canada - Russia Summit series (I was too young to watch it live), Canada Cups/World Cups, Olympics.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I have watched and I watched Mario Lemieux very closely as he's my favourite all time NHL player so my view of him is of course biased. You flat out said Crosby is the best player in history and are now saying it's impossible to say for certain. Crosby may yet be one of the best elite to ever play but he's not there yet IMO. He's top 5 of players still playing today but best in the history of the game? Give him time to build a career first before you anoint him the best ever.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut that anyone can say for certain yet, I may have shot my load too quickly. But at 22, Crosby's well on his way to carving his name in there as the best player to ever lace 'em up. I wanted to see someone decapitate him last night, but at the end of the day you have to shake your head and appreciate that we're seeing one of the most dominating performances in a long, long time - right in our own backyard.

Lemieux was a magician, Gretzky was a powerhouse, but back in the 80s, would Crosby have out-scored them? Out-played them? This is what I mean when I say it's impossible to say for certain. Who can really answer that? I can tell you, it would have been real close.

Wow, Cullen has 6 points...I didn't realize...

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
But Crosby is on another level and the best in history right? I wasn't talking about the Stanley Cup I was talking Olympics when the best of the best are on the ice and the top players to ever play the game excel and dominate, if they are the best ever, in situations like that. Crosby did not. Not saying he won't or can't as he's still very early in his career.

Just look at the Canada - Russia Summit series (I was too young to watch it live), Canada Cups/World Cups, Olympics.

Clutch, Crosby is 22 years old, he played in his first Olympic games ever and scored the deciding goal in overtime. What more would you like him to do? Times have changed man, this is a different game, the goalies are better, the moves you could get away with back them, you can't anymore. I don't understand the argument? Can you not see how good Crosby is, or do you choose not to because he's anally savaging us?

I'm not arguing that Crosby is great and that he's dominating this team but, what I am arguing is that he's doing it just simply because he's Crosby and he's the best ever and would be killing it against any other opposition just because he is who he is and he has that ability to step it up beyond any opposition. Sure Crosby has made some great plays and scored some key goals but how many of those were because the Sens checked their brains in the dressing room and not because Crosby is all world?

They better blow up this team in the offseason. Alfie and Phillips along with promising young guys like Regin and Karlsson are the only I'd consider untouchable.

Everyone else I'd consider fair game if a good deal comes along.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I'm not arguing that Crosby is great and that he's dominating this team but, what I am arguing is that he's doing it just simply because he's Crosby and he's the best ever and would be killing it against any other opposition just because he is who he is and he has that ability to step it up beyond any opposition. Sure Crosby has made some great plays and scored some key goals but how many of those were because the Sens checked their brains in the dressing room and not because Crosby is all world?

Alright, let's call it even here. I happen to be prepared to laud him as the best player of our generation - and possibly the best player ever to play. You disagree. That's fine man, the last thing we need to do it argue about it when we're both probably still steaming from being destroyed.

Lets just say I've got more faith in my SIM Flames team to come back from their 2-1 series deficit than I have in the Sens showing any kind of life in game 5.

Hoags wrote:They better blow up this team in the offseason. Alfie and Phillips along with promising young guys like Regin and Karlsson are the only I'd consider untouchable.

Everyone else I'd consider fair game if a good deal comes along.

Well, we have Volchenkov leaving, Sutton leaving, Cheechoo leaving, Leclaire hopefully leaving, Cullen (hopefully not) leaving.

Possibly Foligno, Campoli doesn't have a contract. There will be a tremendous amount of turnover I would imagine.

Other than that, you have to find someone to dance with if you want to make trades. And the guys we want to move have big tickets like Spezza (7), Kuba (3.7), Kovalev (5), Leclaire (3.crap). Even if we wanted to trade Fisher he makes too much $$ (4.2) and has a no movement clause.

Like it or not, this team doesn't have many tradable assets. At least not ones that you can move and get good value back.

Hoags wrote:They better blow up this team in the offseason. Alfie and Phillips along with promising young guys like Regin and Karlsson are the only I'd consider untouchable.

Everyone else I'd consider fair game if a good deal comes along.

I would agree with that. Elliott I think is also this teams best option going forward and a number 1 goaltender capable of getting a team into the playoffs at 750K, pretty good deal.

N4L wrote:
I would agree with that. Elliott I think is also this teams best option going forward and a number 1 goaltender capable of getting a team into the playoffs at 750K, pretty good deal.

Leclaire gave me more hope than Elliott for a while and I give him a bit of a break considering he got thrown to the wolves in that game with no warmup and giveaway prone team in front of him.

I'm not sure what to think of Elliott... he choked .. badly.

But this entire team except for a few key pieces needs to be nuked from orbit

Based on how Elliott has improved throughout his career thus far I have very high hopes for him next season. I expect we'll be stuck with Leclaire though and therefore be forced into giving him another chance to take the number 1 job back. I have no faith that Pascal can do it though and we'll be back to Elliott by late October at the latest IMO.

It's kind of depressing that we won't be contenders until Lehner is our number 1 goalie most likely and even then I think Ottawa will have a tough time.

Did he choke? He won his first game, was great in the second game, 3rd game he wasnt great, given. But he did bounce back last night and made big saves early (exactly what was asked of him) and kept his team in it until Spezza sent Crosby in on a break away.

Could he have been better? Yup. Did he improve when he was asked to and when he had to be? He did. Brodure is falling apart, Luongo is falling apart. Elliott got thrown to the wolves last night and the wheels fell off his game completely. At worst this is a good expierence for Elliott who now knows what the playoffs are like.

Hoags wrote:They better blow up this team in the offseason. Alfie and Phillips along with promising young guys like Regin and Karlsson are the only I'd consider untouchable.

Everyone else I'd consider fair game if a good deal comes along.

You should buy your own team and blow yourself up.

Elliott misplayed the puck and passed it to Talbot behind the net. He was good but he could've been better and we need better. He was clearly falling apart when Clouston yanked him.

As for Spezza's mistake (as stupid as it was) this team should be good and strong enough to bounce back when our of your star players fucks up. This team has shown little or no resilience in bouncing back. All it takes is one little thing and the wheels fall off the Sens. Every team makes mistakes at some point. If we were playing better and keeping the score closer we could've recovered and used that as a turning point. Instead this team folds like a cheap suit when something goes wrong.

Spezza's mistake isn't anything like Dan Boyle's (now that's a mistake that costs you a game).

The Crosby breakaway goal was a bad goal. Elliott...has been really, really disappointing to me - and I love him.