GAME 4 - 2010 Stanley Cup GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators (1) @ Pittsburgh Penguins (2), Tuesday Apr. 20, 2010 - 7:00PM EST.

I'll say one thing...I love Crosby's game and I think he is the best player in the last 20 years, but I don't really like comparing players to Gretzky or Orr or whoever because they were completely different generations. Players are built better these days, have better equipment, there seems to be way more of a competition level in hockey now than there ever was, etc.

Too bad Gretzky and Crosby couldn't play in the same era.

PKC wrote:
I'm sorry. But that's just not true.

Um, yeah it is. The Pens are dominating us like we were a pee-wee team. People said they could flip a switch and I laughed, well guess what, they did.

RobbyJ wrote:

N4L wrote:I dont see how people can go out and blame Alfi here, he is doing everything he possibly can from a physical and emotional stand point for his team. He's 37 years old playing through an injury.

As for Elliott he was asked to make big saves early and give his team a chance to win, he did that. His team didnt give him a chance and that Spezza give away leading the 2nd goal essentially ended their season.

He should of sat down the last week of the season and healed up a bit. This isn't hindsight, I said it then and I was right. He could have stayed home during the Florida trip at least and played his 1000th game at home rested. Remember how much jump he had coming back from his injury earlier this season.

I agree with that in a way, disagree in another but it's a fair point.

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

Fair enough. If that happens, would Mike Fisher step it up enough to make up for Spezza folding? Not likely.

Nope, but again, you are building youth and a younger tallent might emerge with Fisher's work ethic and heart with more skill then he has. That's the point here, Spezza, you might get someone with a less skill then Spezza but more then Fisher, looks at Spezza and his example, and then he isnt good enough or doesnt work hard enough to stay in The NHL.

You think if Regin played like Spezza and not like Alfi we would be talking about him in the same light right now? I dont.

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:
I'm sorry. But that's just not true.

Um, yeah it is. The Pens are dominating us like we were a pee-wee team. People said they could flip a switch and I laughed, well guess what, they did.

I provided some facts and figures to back up my argument. Are they beating us? Yes. But it's not exactly black and white.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I'll tell you what. If Fleury and the Penguins improve next round and make it to the Conference finals then I may start to drink the kool-aid. If Fleury and the Pens makee it back to the Finals then I'll drink some of that kool-aid. If the Pens aren't embarrassed in the Finals, assuming the make it, then I'll drink a whole jug of the stuff. For now, this ain't the 80's, Crosby ain't Gretzky and never will be, and MAF ain't Fuhr.

That'll kill the Pens unless Varlemov or whoever they face poops the bed, MAF is the weak link - and I don't understand how he's won a Cup - amazing defensive plays and a five man unit on the ice and the odd great save. MAF is simply no longer good enough to win.

However, Crosby ain't Gretzky? You might be right Clutch, he's better than Gretzky. That's right, I'm saying it right now, Crosby is better than Gretzky and he's better than Lemieux. He's quite possibly the most dominating hockey player in history.

I think The Pens are defently better, but I dont think they are head and shoulders better. Crosby is special beyond words and he's run The Sens show.

N4L wrote:I dont see how people can go out and blame Alfi here, he is doing everything he possibly can from a physical and emotional stand point for his team. He's 37 years old playing through an injury.

As for Elliott he was asked to make big saves early and give his team a chance to win, he did that. His team didnt give him a chance and that Spezza give away leading the 2nd goal essentially ended their season.

May I be so bold as to ask how Elliott let a tiny slapper from Crosby in - who was off balance and had no other move to make? Not Elliott's fault when you let the best player in the world take the puck in like that, but at the same time, it was a shockingly unimpressive final result.

N4L wrote:Nope, but again, you are building youth and a younger tallent might emerge with Fisher's work ethic and heart with more skill then he has. That's the point here, Spezza, you might get someone with a less skill then Spezza but more then Fisher, looks at Spezza and his example, and then he isnt good enough or doesnt work hard enough to stay in The NHL.

You think if Regin played like Spezza and not like Alfi we would be talking about him in the same light right now? I dont.

I don't completely disagree but I doubt you can move Spezza's contract and I'm also tired of the inconsistent 2nd line which has had one constant for years now.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I'll tell you what. If Fleury and the Penguins improve next round and make it to the Conference finals then I may start to drink the kool-aid. If Fleury and the Pens makee it back to the Finals then I'll drink some of that kool-aid. If the Pens aren't embarrassed in the Finals, assuming the make it, then I'll drink a whole jug of the stuff. For now, this ain't the 80's, Crosby ain't Gretzky and never will be, and MAF ain't Fuhr.

That'll kill the Pens unless Varlemov or whoever they face poops the bed, MAF is the weak link - and I don't understand how he's won a Cup - amazing defensive plays and a five man unit on the ice and the odd great save. MAF is simply no longer good enough to win.

However, Crosby ain't Gretzky? You might be right Clutch, he's better than Gretzky. That's right, I'm saying it right now, Crosby is better than Gretzky and he's better than Lemieux. He's quite possibly the most dominating hockey player in history.

I just wanna know if you ever watched Gretzky and Mario in their primes?

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Nah, Elliott should have had that 4th goal, the 3rd was on him too, but lets face it, when that 2nd goal went in the wheels fell off his game. Spezza burried him and The Sens in one swoop. Elliott up until that point was playing fantastic.

What happend to Elliott was the same thing that happend to him most of last year and a lot of this year, the guys in front of him let him down.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

I think Ruutu could be moved to make room for Smith for sure. His value is at an all time high and a team like San Jose could be looking for a little grit. perhaps Carolina as well.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

N4L wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:I think you deal Spezza before you deal Fisher, salary isnt a huge issue at this point.

Can you replace 80-90 points? Can you replace hard work and mixed results?

If he wa sputting up those kind of numbers then it would be a little esier to make that arguement. He could get 150 points next year and he would fold in the playoffs, The Sens dont need it and it will hurt them having a guy like that in the end.

Build young tallent with old character. There is a ton coming into Ottawa right now, both upfront and on the blueline.

I've gotta say, I love Zack Smith's character. The kid could definitely develop into a true playoff forward.

SMith was fantastic. He's on this team next year, no doubt in my mind.

Who's gone to make room for him?

Alfie - Spezza (Do you really beleive he'll be moved or just hope) - Regin
Michalek - Cullen - Kovalev
Foligno - Fisher - Winchester
Ruutu - Kelly - Neil


Even if you assume Spezza is traded there will most likely be another roster forward coming back to take the vacancy left behind so again who comes out for Smith?

Don't get me wrong I think he played great BTW.

Foligno has genuinely regressed this year. I figured the crash bang playoff style hockey would suit him. He's wilted and faded. He Spezza'd himself.

N4L wrote:OMG obviously Alfi wont have a chance at a cup in Ottawa, that's been known for a long time, at least it should have been.

Depends. If he plays 3 more years, he could get lucky and come close in the third year.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:Nope, but again, you are building youth and a younger tallent might emerge with Fisher's work ethic and heart with more skill then he has. That's the point here, Spezza, you might get someone with a less skill then Spezza but more then Fisher, looks at Spezza and his example, and then he isnt good enough or doesnt work hard enough to stay in The NHL.

You think if Regin played like Spezza and not like Alfi we would be talking about him in the same light right now? I dont.

I don't completely disagree but I doubt you can move Spezza's contract and I'm also tired of the inconsistent 2nd line which has had one constant for years now.

The Sens are not a complete team, that's for sure. Is Spezza not moveable? Not yet.