GAME DAY: Montreal Canadiens @ Ottawa Senators - 2:00pm ET - Sat. Jan. 30. 2010

rooneypoo wrote:

marakh wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Dash wrote:N4L

Neely's whole point is that scoring isn't everything, and that people who think Spezza is "elite" and "essential to this team" spend too much time reading stats and not enough time watching games.

Try again.

I challenge you to find someone who thinks Spezza is elite in here.

So, no elite, not essential to the team, not earning his $7 mil / yr -- but lord help us if we find ourselves without him? Can you really not see the problem here that your own challenge points to?

I challenge you to find one good reason to keep defending a guy who makes that kinda cash, plays that kinda game, and yet isn't elite or essential to the team.

AS I said, I'm all for trading Spezza but there is no solution. Problems are easy to find, and I think everybody here is conscious of that cap, but it's another thing to fix it.

It's nice to point out problems but when there is no solution, which my argument somewhere in this board pointed out, there's no point in regurgitating the same thing on every GDT. Spezza fucks this, Spezza fucks that.

marakh wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

marakh wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Dash wrote:N4L

Neely's whole point is that scoring isn't everything, and that people who think Spezza is "elite" and "essential to this team" spend too much time reading stats and not enough time watching games.

Try again.

I challenge you to find someone who thinks Spezza is elite in here.

So, no elite, not essential to the team, not earning his $7 mil / yr -- but lord help us if we find ourselves without him? Can you really not see the problem here that your own challenge points to?

I challenge you to find one good reason to keep defending a guy who makes that kinda cash, plays that kinda game, and yet isn't elite or essential to the team.

AS I said, I'm all for trading Spezza but there is no solution. Problems are easy to find, and I think everybody here is conscious of that cap, but it's another thing to fix it.

It's nice to point out problems but when there is no solution, which my argument somewhere in this board pointed out, there's no point in regurgitating the same thing on every GDT. Spezza fucks this, Spezza fucks that.

Don't make me break out the Irish Spring!

asq2 wrote:

sens4win wrote:

hemlock wrote:

PKC wrote:

wprager wrote:Karlsson has 11 points; Hedman has 14. The race is on.

Tyler Myers already finished the race...

He's the rookie of the year imo. He's doing it all in Buffalo.

what about tavares ?

Tavares isn't close to Myers right now in the Calder race. He's only got two more points than Myers has, and Myers has been a rock on the defensive side of things (granted he's playing in front of Miller).

I would argue that Duchene has moved in front of Tavares at this point. But Myers is easily in the lead.

Let's just hope the voters see it that way. Defencemen often get overlooked for the Calder.

Let's not forget Varlamov. If he comes back soon, that 16-1 record as of now won't be easy to ignore.

wprager wrote:Just make it certain, I am not saying Karlsson for the Calder. I just want him to finish ahead of Hedman.

By the way, does anyone think that Karlsson has a shot at making the Olympic squad? Or maybe I should say, would he have a shot at playing at that level? I think the ship has sailed. I look at the invite list and, who the heck is Douglas Murray -- he's on Sweden's 2010 Olympic Roster. Johnny Oduya? Tallinder? Really? He could probably do as well as those guys at this point.

Murray's pretty solid. The closest Sweden has to a Volchenkov.

Thing is, I don't think Karlsson is next in line on that list. Hedman is certainly above him given the size difference right now (though Sweden did choose Tobias Enstrom), and Edler's another key guy over-looked as well.

No question BAG made some terrible bizarre choices, though. Modin? Weinhandl? I would take Franzen on one leg over either.

sens4win wrote:has anyone realized that a lot of teams don't have assigned captains naming 2 are vancouver and toronto i only watch sens games but i realized they dont seem to have one is that weird?

Vancouver's captain is Luongo.

Montreal doesn't have a captain, though.

wprager wrote:For all we know, maybe he thought Markov dropped it because it was broken. I know I did.

That's what I thought too.

Phoenix30 wrote:Whats up with all the injuries this year. Gotta feel bad for Folingo not only on the ice but in the pocket book. I wonder how this affects his value come contract talk time.

Oh man, is that ever an interesting point.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:Whats up with all the injuries this year. Gotta feel bad for Folingo not only on the ice but in the pocket book. I wonder how this affects his value come contract talk time.

Oh man, is that ever an interesting point.

No arbitration rights, so if anything goes bad, we sign 1 year 10% raise. Kovalev and Cheechoo are out next year anyway, so I'd do that. But I think he accepts a 3 year 1.5 per MIllion kind of deal.
Same applies for Regin.

marakh wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:Whats up with all the injuries this year. Gotta feel bad for Folingo not only on the ice but in the pocket book. I wonder how this affects his value come contract talk time.

Oh man, is that ever an interesting point.

No arbitration rights, so if anything goes bad, we sign 1 year 10% raise. Kovalev and Cheechoo are out next year anyway, so I'd do that. But I think he accepts a 3 year 1.5 per MIllion kind of deal.
Same applies for Regin.

Regin will make 800K or so on his next contract. Like Elliott, it's a reward for a 1-way contract IMO. Foligno, I'd love to get him for 1.5. Especially the way he's improving.

OF course I was talking about the 10% rule for Regin, not the 1.5x3 deal. My bad.

marakh wrote:OF course I was talking about the 10% rule for Regin, not the 1.5x3 deal. My bad.

Oh, fair enough. 680K or whatever sounds fine and dandy. He'll make his money - from us, but for now, we'd like to save $$

sens4win wrote:

AlfieisGod11 wrote:Cammalleri---- right knee, acl problem

that should slow them down

rooneypoo wrote:

The point is not that Spezza is a bad player. It's that he's not a $7 mil, highest-paid-player-on-your-team, contributing-in-all-situations, heir-to-Alfie kind of guy. There's a huge difference between not being bad and being great for your team -- therein lies the dilemma with Spezza.

Don't let 4 decent games and a 6-game goalscoring streak wipe out from your memories the years and years of bad turnovers and lazy, half-assed, poor-hearted play. Keep it all in mind.

Spezza has until this June to prove his worth to the Sens organization. Ball's in his court.

I disagree with the fine Dr. Spezza is a $7-million per year kind of player. I think if you look at all the guys who earn in that range of money, that you'll find that Spezza would be one of the better players to have on your team. He might not be as exciting defensively as everyone hopes, but I'd suggest that by playing the brand of offense that he does, that that's his way of playing defense - by keeping the puck in the offensive zone 200 feet away from our net.

People overrate certain aspects of the game so incredibly. How many plays has Spezza made this year where the outright result was a goal against? Conversely, how many plays has Spezza made this year that outright resulted in a goal for?

The thing is you pay for hard work and pay a huge premium for talent. Defence is focus and hard work. Offense is talent, which is not teachable. The fact we are paying big money to Spezza for his talent is in line with what the rest of the leagues salary structure and a sign of what is valued the most. Theory is, it is easier to get players to work hard and focus. It is not easy to teach a hard working player to have offensive creativity.

MurderOnIce wrote:The thing is you pay for hard work and pay a huge premium for talent. Defence is focus and hard work. Offense is talent, which is not teachable. The fact we are paying big money to Spezza for his talent is in line with what the rest of the leagues salary structure and a sign of what is valued the most. Theory is, it is easier to get players to work hard and focus. It is not easy to teach a hard working player to have offensive creativity.

Point in case: Chris Kelly.

Here's a list of all the players who get paid in the Jason Spezza range ($6.5-7.5 million):

Scott Niedermayer - 6.75 (5G, 25 A, -17) 55 GP
Zdeno Chara - 7.5 (4G, 25 A, +5) 53 GP
Thomas Vanek - 7.18 (16G, 17 A, +1) 48 GP
Jarome Iginla - 7 (24G, 27 A, +3) 55 GP
Jay Bouwmeester - 6.68 (2G, 18 A, +11) 55 GP
Dion Phaneuf - 6.5 (10G, 12 A, +3) 55 GP
Brian Campbell - 7.14 (6G, 28 A, +16) 55 GP
Paul Stastny - 6.6 (11G, 37 A, +11) 53 GP
Brad Richards - 7.8 (15G, 44 A, -11) 52 GP
Pavel Datsyuk - 6.7 (14G, 29 A, +13) 52 GP
Nicklas Lidstrom - 7.45 (6G, 26 A, +20) 54 GP
Anze Kopitar - 6.8 (23G, 32 A, +7) 54 GP
Scott Gomez - 7.4 (7G, 28 A, -1) 52 GP
Marian Gaborik - 7.5 (30G, 32 A, +7) 53 GP
Chris Drury - 7.05 (8G, 11 A, -11) 50 GP
Wade Redden - 6.5 (1G, 7 A, even) 48 GP
Henrik Lundqvist - 6.875 (22-19-6, 2.40 GAA, .920 sv%) 48 GP
Jason Spezza - 7 (9G, 14 A, -1) 34 GP
Daniel Briere - 6.5 (18G, 16 A, -1) 46 GP
Ed Jovanovski - 6.5 (9G, 18 A, -3) 41 GP
Dany Heatley - 7.5 (30G, 29 A, +15) 55 GP
Joe Thornton - 7.2 (13G, 55 A, +16) 55 GP
Dan Boyle - 6.67 (10G, 33 A, +6) 51 GP
Roberto Luongo - 6.75 (29-14-2, .920 sv%, 2.31 GAA) 47 GP

Can someone do a better job than this?