GAME DAY: Montreal Canadiens @ Ottawa Senators - 2:00pm ET - Sat. Jan. 30. 2010

MurderOnIce wrote:The thing is you pay for hard work and pay a huge premium for talent. Defence is focus and hard work. Offense is talent, which is not teachable. The fact we are paying big money to Spezza for his talent is in line with what the rest of the leagues salary structure and a sign of what is valued the most. Theory is, it is easier to get players to work hard and focus. It is not easy to teach a hard working player to have offensive creativity.

marakh wrote:Let's not forget Varlamov. If he comes back soon, that 16-1 record as of now won't be easy to ignore.

wprager wrote:

marakh wrote:Let's not forget Varlamov. If he comes back soon, that 16-1 record as of now won't be easy to ignore.

Is Varlamov a rookie after playing 19 games last season? Or don't playoff games count toward rookie eligibility?

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

TeamRenzo wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Dash wrote:N4L

Neely's whole point is that scoring isn't everything, and that people who think Spezza is "elite" and "essential to this team" spend too much time reading stats and not enough time watching games.

Try again.

Really? So why is he fast to point out that Kelly has more goals than Spezza?

He very rarely points out the good things Spezza does in a game, but jumps all over his mistakes. He has personal issues with Spezza I am sure of it.

Try again

There's some truth to it. I pointed out to him the other day during a game, that he had Spezza under a microscope like noone else. Sure, Spezza is the highest paid player, but the amount of scrutiny he receives from N4L is way over the top. And N4L practically agreed.

No matter what though, despite winning a few converts over like the good Dr., he will never convince most people here that Spezza is as bad as he says he is, because, like you said, it almost seems personal.

The point is not that Spezza is a bad player. It's that he's not a $7 mil, highest-paid-player-on-your-team, contributing-in-all-situations, heir-to-Alfie kind of guy. There's a huge difference between not being bad and being great for your team -- therein lies the dilemma with Spezza.

Don't let 4 decent games and a 6-game goalscoring streak wipe out from your memories the years and years of bad turnovers and lazy, half-assed, poor-hearted play. Keep it all in mind.

Spezza has until this June to prove his worth to the Sens organization. Ball's in his court.

N4L wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

TeamRenzo wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Dash wrote:N4L

Neely's whole point is that scoring isn't everything, and that people who think Spezza is "elite" and "essential to this team" spend too much time reading stats and not enough time watching games.

Try again.

Really? So why is he fast to point out that Kelly has more goals than Spezza?

He very rarely points out the good things Spezza does in a game, but jumps all over his mistakes. He has personal issues with Spezza I am sure of it.

Try again

There's some truth to it. I pointed out to him the other day during a game, that he had Spezza under a microscope like noone else. Sure, Spezza is the highest paid player, but the amount of scrutiny he receives from N4L is way over the top. And N4L practically agreed.

No matter what though, despite winning a few converts over like the good Dr., he will never convince most people here that Spezza is as bad as he says he is, because, like you said, it almost seems personal.

The point is not that Spezza is a bad player. It's that he's not a $7 mil, highest-paid-player-on-your-team, contributing-in-all-situations, heir-to-Alfie kind of guy. There's a huge difference between not being bad and being great for your team -- therein lies the dilemma with Spezza.

Don't let 4 decent games and a 6-game goalscoring streak wipe out from your memories the years and years of bad turnovers and lazy, half-assed, poor-hearted play. Keep it all in mind.

Spezza has until this June to prove his worth to the Sens organization. Ball's in his court.

Ive NEVER said Spezza is "a bad player". I say he isnt a 7 million dollar player, a true first line center, or a player a team can be built around. Do I expect a lot from the highest paid plakyer on the team? Yeah, I do. I expect him to make others around him better, lead, do what ever it takes to work, Spezza does none of those.

It shouldnt take him getting hurt or injured for the team to turn things around going into the playoffs (like in 2007) then him being forced to buy into what the team is selling.

Right now he does 100 things right, then 100 things wrong. Has to stop.

PKC wrote:Here's a list of all the players who get paid in the Jason Spezza range ($6.5-7.5 million):

Scott Niedermayer - 6.75 (5G, 25 A, -17) 55 GP
Zdeno Chara - 7.5 (4G, 25 A, +5) 53 GP
Thomas Vanek - 7.18 (16G, 17 A, +1) 48 GP
Jarome Iginla - 7 (24G, 27 A, +3) 55 GP
Jay Bouwmeester - 6.68 (2G, 18 A, +11) 55 GP
Dion Phaneuf - 6.5 (10G, 12 A, +3) 55 GP
Brian Campbell - 7.14 (6G, 28 A, +16) 55 GP
Paul Stastny - 6.6 (11G, 37 A, +11) 53 GP
Brad Richards - 7.8 (15G, 44 A, -11) 52 GP
Pavel Datsyuk - 6.7 (14G, 29 A, +13) 52 GP
Nicklas Lidstrom - 7.45 (6G, 26 A, +20) 54 GP
Anze Kopitar - 6.8 (23G, 32 A, +7) 54 GP
Scott Gomez - 7.4 (7G, 28 A, -1) 52 GP
Marian Gaborik - 7.5 (30G, 32 A, +7) 53 GP
Chris Drury - 7.05 (8G, 11 A, -11) 50 GP
Wade Redden - 6.5 (1G, 7 A, even) 48 GP
Henrik Lundqvist - 6.875 (22-19-6, 2.40 GAA, .920 sv%) 48 GP
Jason Spezza - 7 (9G, 14 A, -1) 34 GP
Daniel Briere - 6.5 (18G, 16 A, -1) 46 GP
Ed Jovanovski - 6.5 (9G, 18 A, -3) 41 GP
Dany Heatley - 7.5 (30G, 29 A, +15) 55 GP
Joe Thornton - 7.2 (13G, 55 A, +16) 55 GP
Dan Boyle - 6.67 (10G, 33 A, +6) 51 GP
Roberto Luongo - 6.75 (29-14-2, .920 sv%, 2.31 GAA) 47 GP

PKC wrote:

He scored a goal yesterday, and almost had another one on what should have certainly been called a penalty shot. I for one think Spezza's been fantastic since he came back from his injury. He just looks like he cares out there.

That end to end rush in OT is the kind of rush very few players in the league can pull off. He basically skated directly at 3 habs with 1 hanging off of him from behind and then went straight through them.

I just don't know what more you guys want the guy to do. He's gonna have to average 15 points a game for some of you to get off his back.

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:

He scored a goal yesterday, and almost had another one on what should have certainly been called a penalty shot. I for one think Spezza's been fantastic since he came back from his injury. He just looks like he cares out there.

That end to end rush in OT is the kind of rush very few players in the league can pull off. He basically skated directly at 3 habs with 1 hanging off of him from behind and then went straight through them.

I just don't know what more you guys want the guy to do. He's gonna have to average 15 points a game for some of you to get off his back.

Honestly, I'd settle for what he's done over the last for games, plus just a tad more consistency when he's handling the puck (which has been better this year all around). He's been shooting more and driving to the net more, both of which are things he absolutely needs to keep doing.

We're not asking for the moon. We're asking for a $7mil, 1st liner to play like one -- with consistency, game in and game out. Don't like this four-game streak wipe out years of inconsistency and turnovers, etc., including a very poor 1st half to start this year.

N4L wrote:He looks better then when he left, 100%. He still makes rookie mistakes which HAS to stop. No one is trashing Spezza right now, we are stating what is happening on the ice. People just look at points and output and think that's all there is too it.

Spezza is making 7 million a year, like it or not, that is an important factor. If he was making 4.5-5.5, you wouldnt hear a lot of people sya anything. That kind of cash the player has to be your hardest worker, usually most productive (in some aspect), and a leader. It's not like he was a UFA signing that deal, he was a draft pick that has grown up in the organization, The Sens fave him what he wanted. He has yet to earn his pay check.

Again, I ask, is this team a contender with Spezza? No, they are not a true conteder. Are they a playoff team without him? Yes, they are.

N4L wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:

He scored a goal yesterday, and almost had another one on what should have certainly been called a penalty shot. I for one think Spezza's been fantastic since he came back from his injury. He just looks like he cares out there.

That end to end rush in OT is the kind of rush very few players in the league can pull off. He basically skated directly at 3 habs with 1 hanging off of him from behind and then went straight through them.

I just don't know what more you guys want the guy to do. He's gonna have to average 15 points a game for some of you to get off his back.

Honestly, I'd settle for what he's done over the last for games, plus just a tad more consistency when he's handling the puck (which has been better this year all around). He's been shooting more and driving to the net more, both of which are things he absolutely needs to keep doing.

We're not asking for the moon. We're asking for a $7mil, 1st liner to play like one -- with consistency, game in and game out. Don't like this four-game streak wipe out years of inconsistency and turnovers, etc., including a very poor 1st half to start this year.

Right there, that's why I havnt really said a whole bunch about him but this thread was going before I said a word. People bring up Spezza's short comings and look at the overall picture of The Sens and the game being played and people act like he is being bashed for no reason.

Flo The Action wrote:yawn.... :blah:
i still think that spezza's play started going down this season when he came back early from injury (around the 15 game mark if i remember correctly) forcing him to play injured. we all liked how he played at the biggening and now. sure he makes 7 mill. sure he hasn't the track record to show he deserves it.
will he start earning it now? maybe
is it detrimental to this team to get rid of him? i don't think so.
could this be a savard like player?(for years having a bad rep and now showing that he was worth it). quite possibly.

not saying he's not gonna go back to his old ways. i think it's 50/50.
but if he is gonna play like he is now and we let him go, we are fool.

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

PKC wrote:

He scored a goal yesterday, and almost had another one on what should have certainly been called a penalty shot. I for one think Spezza's been fantastic since he came back from his injury. He just looks like he cares out there.

That end to end rush in OT is the kind of rush very few players in the league can pull off. He basically skated directly at 3 habs with 1 hanging off of him from behind and then went straight through them.

I just don't know what more you guys want the guy to do. He's gonna have to average 15 points a game for some of you to get off his back.

Honestly, I'd settle for what he's done over the last for games, plus just a tad more consistency when he's handling the puck (which has been better this year all around). He's been shooting more and driving to the net more, both of which are things he absolutely needs to keep doing.

We're not asking for the moon. We're asking for a $7mil, 1st liner to play like one -- with consistency, game in and game out. Don't like this four-game streak wipe out years of inconsistency and turnovers, etc., including a very poor 1st half to start this year.

Right there, that's why I havnt really said a whole bunch about him but this thread was going before I said a word. People bring up Spezza's short comings and look at the overall picture of The Sens and the game being played and people act like he is being bashed for no reason.

I agree with you guys on that front, he does need to shoot more and drive the net more, but you also have to take into consideration his style of play. He's not a power forward as much as some of you want him to be, he's a play maker. It's just now he's realizing he probably has the best shot on this team and is considerably better than his linemates' (with the exception of Alfredsson).

But the guy is a passer, first and foremost. He's played that way since he was six years old. And people on here just expect that to change. I don't think there's been anything wrong with his game lately and I don't see any reason for his play to regress again like it did earlier this year.

<BLOCKQUOTE>N4L wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>rooneypoo wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>PKC wrote:

He scored a goal yesterday, and almost had another one on what should have certainly been called a penalty shot. I for one think Spezza's been fantastic since he came back from his injury. He just looks like he cares out there.

That end to end rush in OT is the kind of rush very few players in the league can pull off. He basically skated directly at 3 habs with 1 hanging off of him from behind and then went straight through them.

I just don't know what more you guys want the guy to do. He's gonna have to average 15 points a game for some of you to get off his back.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, I'd settle for what he's done over the last for games, plus just a tad more consistency when he's handling the puck (which has been better this year all around). He's been shooting more and driving to the net more, both of which are things he absolutely needs to keep doing.

We're not asking for the moon. We're asking for a $7mil, 1st liner to play like one -- with consistency, game in and game out. Don't like this four-game streak wipe out years of inconsistency and turnovers, etc., including a very poor 1st half to start this year.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Right there, that's why I havnt really said a whole bunch about him but this thread was going before I said a word. People bring up Spezza's short comings and look at the overall picture of The Sens and the game being played and people act like he is being bashed for no reason.
</BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree with you guys on that front, he does need to shoot more and drive the net more, but you also have to take into consideration his style of play. He's not a power forward as much as some of you want him to be, he's a play maker. It's just now he's realizing he probably has the best shot on this team and is considerably better than his linemates' (with the exception of Alfredsson).

But the guy is a passer, first and foremost. He's played that way since he was six years old. And people on here just expect that to change. I don't think there's been anything wrong with his game lately and I don't see any reason for his play to regress again like it did earlier this year.