Now with a POLL! Is the Ron Wilson death watch on? (Possible player revolt?)

Wilson has already back pedaled after saying Toskala was going to get the next three starts... he now says Joey Mac will get the start against the Avs.

A team with that much turnover on its back end particularly will take time to come together. I think it's a matter of time before Wilson has them playing better hockey and competing harder. They haven't really been scoring either - and that would be where Kessel comes in.

But hey, if they're gonna fair, by all means go for it. :prop:

Yeah, it's gonna take some time. We'll see how they're looking after 10-15 games.

SpezDispenser wrote:A team with that much turnover on its back end particularly will take time to come together. I think it's a matter of time before Wilson has them playing better hockey and competing harder. They haven't really been scoring either - and that would be where Kessel comes in.

But hey, if they're gonna fair, by all means go for it.

Thoight that defense was supposed to be sooooooo much better? They are actually worse.

N4L wrote:
Thoight that defense was supposed to be sooooooo much better? They are actually worse.

Yeah, they're horrid right now. Again though, you know how much time it can take for a group of new players to gel and play well. If things are still this bad 20 games in, then there will be trouble for sure.

You can count me in as one who definitely couldn't believe they traded Kubina for a bag of pucks.

I'm not even kidding, I could do a better job managing that team then Burke has. The only thing I would have done that he did was bring in MacDonald and signed Bozak, that's it. Kaberle would have never been on the block, Orr wouldnt have gotten a 4 year deal. He's screwed that franchise up for the next GM.

N4L wrote:I'm not even kidding, I could do a better job managing that team then Burke has. The only thing I would have done that he did was bring in MacDonald and signed Bozak, that's it. Kaberle would have never been on the block, Orr wouldnt have gotten a 4 year deal. He's screwed that franchise up for the next GM.

I honestly can't understand why they rebuffed at trading Kaberle and a first round pick for Kessel when they went ahead and gave away what seems to be turning into the runaway first overall pick.

I know it takes time for new defensive partners to gel, but what about the team in front of them. It's a team responsibility, from the forwards all the way back into the net, to be vigilant on the defensive side of the puck.

Just look at their roster right now...it's absolutely woeful. They have four guys who are pluses, four guys who are even and the rest of the roster in the minuses. Dreadful...

We all figured the Leafs were gonna have big time trouble scoring goals with that makeshift roster of forwards, but for them be allowing almost 5 goals against per game is absolutely ridiculous. It's beyond unacceptable.

The Leafs aren't as bad as their record indicates. And I'm pretty confident in saying that the Sens will not win 61 games this season. It's still early.

However, it looks like Toskala will soon be the third stringer -- by demoting him they would actually clear some space to, perhaps, bring in a defenseman. Kessel will help when he heals, but it's still not going to be enough. I don't see how they can make the playoffs this season unless a fairly large move happens (bury Roskala, trade Kaberle -- the Habs could use him then bring in a solid defensive D-man and a playmaking center).

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:I'm not even kidding, I could do a better job managing that team then Burke has. The only thing I would have done that he did was bring in MacDonald and signed Bozak, that's it. Kaberle would have never been on the block, Orr wouldnt have gotten a 4 year deal. He's screwed that franchise up for the next GM.

I honestly can't understand why they rebuffed at trading Kaberle and a first round pick for Kessel when they went ahead and gave away what seems to be turning into the runaway first overall pick.

I know it takes time for new defensive partners to gel, but what about the team in front of them. It's a team responsibility, from the forwards all the way back into the net, to be vigilant on the defensive side of the puck.

Just look at their roster right now...it's absolutely woeful. They have four guys who are pluses, four guys who are even and the rest of the roster in the minuses. Dreadful...

We all figured the Leafs were gonna have big time trouble scoring goals with that makeshift roster of forwards, but for them be allowing almost 5 goals against per game is absolutely ridiculous. It's beyond unacceptable.

Imagine how it would be if there was +/- in PK...

marakh wrote:

PKC wrote:

N4L wrote:I'm not even kidding, I could do a better job managing that team then Burke has. The only thing I would have done that he did was bring in MacDonald and signed Bozak, that's it. Kaberle would have never been on the block, Orr wouldnt have gotten a 4 year deal. He's screwed that franchise up for the next GM.

I honestly can't understand why they rebuffed at trading Kaberle and a first round pick for Kessel when they went ahead and gave away what seems to be turning into the runaway first overall pick.

I know it takes time for new defensive partners to gel, but what about the team in front of them. It's a team responsibility, from the forwards all the way back into the net, to be vigilant on the defensive side of the puck.

Just look at their roster right now...it's absolutely woeful. They have four guys who are pluses, four guys who are even and the rest of the roster in the minuses. Dreadful...

We all figured the Leafs were gonna have big time trouble scoring goals with that makeshift roster of forwards, but for them be allowing almost 5 goals against per game is absolutely ridiculous. It's beyond unacceptable.

Imagine how it would be if there was +/- in PK...

Technically, there is. You get a plus or a minus if you score or get scored on while shorthanded/on the powerplay.

wprager wrote:The Leafs aren't as bad as their record indicates. And I'm pretty confident in saying that the Sens will not win 61 games this season. It's still early.

However, it looks like Toskala will soon be the third stringer -- by demoting him they would actually clear some space to, perhaps, bring in a defenseman. Kessel will help when he heals, but it's still not going to be enough. I don't see how they can make the playoffs this season unless a fairly large move happens (bury Roskala, trade Kaberle -- the Habs could use him then bring in a solid defensive D-man and a playmaking center).

You're actually quite wrong on that one. They have a notoriously defensive coach coaching them and their penalty kill is running at an absolutely astonishing 53.8%. Now, granted, that won't stay that way, but Jesus Christ...have some self-respect and some pride, no?

I don't exaggerate when I say the Leafs might not win 20 games this year.

which doesn't happen very often though.

marakh wrote:which doesn't happen very often though.

With the exception of the last two years I believe, there have been more than one team to either win 20 games or win in the 22-23 games range.

Carolina 22 wins in 2002-03
Pittsburgh 23 wins in 2003-04
Washington 23 wins in 2003-04
Chicago 20 wins in 2003-04
Phoenix 22 wins in 2003-04
Pittsburgh 22 wins in 2005-06
St Louis 21 wins in 2005-06
Philadelphia 22 wins in 2006-07
Tampa Bay 24 wins in 2008-09

It's not that far fetched...and the Leafs look like they are right on pace to exceed those pillars of failure. Tampa Bay even had guys like Lecavalier, St. Louis, Malone and Stamkos last year.

Who does Toronto have? No one.

wprager wrote:The Leafs aren't as bad as their record indicates. And I'm pretty confident in saying that the Sens will not win 61 games this season. It's still early.

However, it looks like Toskala will soon be the third stringer -- by demoting him they would actually clear some space to, perhaps, bring in a defenseman. Kessel will help when he heals, but it's still not going to be enough. I don't see how they can make the playoffs this season unless a fairly large move happens (bury Roskala, trade Kaberle -- the Habs could use him then bring in a solid defensive D-man and a playmaking center).

Kaberle's their best d-man and the guy that can move the puck on that blue-line. They need to keep him.

asq2 wrote:

wprager wrote:The Leafs aren't as bad as their record indicates. And I'm pretty confident in saying that the Sens will not win 61 games this season. It's still early.

However, it looks like Toskala will soon be the third stringer -- by demoting him they would actually clear some space to, perhaps, bring in a defenseman. Kessel will help when he heals, but it's still not going to be enough. I don't see how they can make the playoffs this season unless a fairly large move happens (bury Roskala, trade Kaberle -- the Habs could use him then bring in a solid defensive D-man and a playmaking center).

Kaberle's their best d-man and the guy that can move the puck on that blue-line. They need to keep him.

They might as well pack it in. Forget what I said, there is nothing they can do to get into the playoffs. They really ought to look at what Gainey would offer for Kaberle. Normally I wouldn't dream of helping out a divisional rival, but the Habs aren't going anywhere either; giving them Kabs will only ensure they don't get a lottery pick.

I keep thinking of those two 1st rounders they gave Boston and shuddering.

Paying at the cap, no superstar, goaltending suspicious, amorph Defense,still winless this season, No 1st rounders for the next 2 years... Either Kessel plays like the 2nd coming, or we see Kadri and Bozak in January.

marakh wrote:Paying at the cap, no superstar, goaltending suspicious, amorph Defense,still winless this season, No 1st rounders for the next 2 years... Either Kessel plays like the 2nd coming, or we see Kadri and Bozak in January.

I can't believe it's come to this, but we might have to start cheering for the Leafs to improve or else we can kiss the division away for the next decade+ to the Bruins.

It would be close to illegal for them to have the opportunity to add one of Hall, Kabanov, Fowler, McFarland or Granlund.

With any luck they are not going to win the lottery in the up-coming draft. They'd still be picking top-five, but at least not picking 1st overall. Plus they just lost Kessel, who's to say they are not going to continue losing top-end talent because of cap constraints? Sure, with four 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders over the next two years the Bruins will have a leg-up on the competition, for sure, but it's still unproven talent.