Kessel to The Leafs

IMO, Kessel is a 2nd line guy who probably wont be much more then that because of his general attitude towards the game. I think he's over rated as is and benifitted playing infront of a great defense, the leagues best goaltender, and had an amazing coach and line mates to help him out.

I dont think he's a star in the rise, I think he is a player that just got a whole wack of cash that and will end up being way over paid.

asq2 wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:2 1sts is a little steep especially since they will be picking around 6-8th with a good chance of moving up a couple of spots. These picks could get some really influential players in the future. Toronto has very little prospects and should be concerned with building up a team through the draft. The fans may not have the patience but i doubt that would stop Toronto fans from coming to the game. Say what you want about Toronto fans(i know i do) but they always come out to support their team

TO's farm system isn't all that bad. Anyway, I think even before Kessel they had made some moves to improve the club. I think they'll be at worst picking 9th/10th, barring major injuries of course.

They already start with one, Kessel.

asq2 wrote:

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:2 1sts is a little steep especially since they will be picking around 6-8th with a good chance of moving up a couple of spots. These picks could get some really influential players in the future. Toronto has very little prospects and should be concerned with building up a team through the draft. The fans may not have the patience but i doubt that would stop Toronto fans from coming to the game. Say what you want about Toronto fans(i know i do) but they always come out to support their team

TO's farm system isn't all that bad. Anyway, I think even before Kessel they had made some moves to improve the club. I think they'll be at worst picking 9th/10th, barring major injuries of course.

they aren't that bad but they aren't that good either they could have used to top 10 picks even if they pick in the top ten next two years would tremendously help that team

and even if you think don't think they overpaid for getting him i think they definitely paid him too high of a salary i really dont think he is worth a 5.4M contract

N4L wrote:

wprager wrote:Just like Jason Blake, Kessel has no chance of a repeat performance. This year, for sure, since he's not playing until, what, November? And until the Leafs can find or groom a top-line center to feed him like Savard did, it will remain a near impossibility.

Mr Prager.... not that I disagree with it... but really?

Sorry, I meant in the immediate future. Not this year, and not until they can get him a 1st line, play-making center. Do they have one in their farm system because, if not, they won't have one for the duration of his contract, unless they manage to snag a free agent.

Hmm, obviously that's got to be part of Burke's plan all along, but he may find himself in cap hell if he does too much of that.

wprager wrote:

N4L wrote:

wprager wrote:Just like Jason Blake, Kessel has no chance of a repeat performance. This year, for sure, since he's not playing until, what, November? And until the Leafs can find or groom a top-line center to feed him like Savard did, it will remain a near impossibility.

Mr Prager.... not that I disagree with it... but really?

Sorry, I meant in the immediate future. Not this year, and not until they can get him a 1st line, play-making center. Do they have one in their farm system because, if not, they won't have one for the duration of his contract, unless they manage to snag a free agent.

Hmm, obviously that's got to be part of Burke's plan all along, but he may find himself in cap hell if he does too much of that.

I was just chirping, haha, I agree with it a;;/

Vandelay wrote:Although I'm not really sure why they didn't go the offer sheet route, I don't think this deal is as bad as some here seem to think. There are rumors that Kessel isn't much of a team guy but he's young with a 30+ goal season under his belt. As bad as the leafs could've been this year, somehow they never seem to get in the lottery pick range. So, if you look at what they got this year (I'm assuming they would've finished around the same place this year), this trade is two Kadris and a second for one Kessel.

I agree, he won't have anything close to a Marc Savard in Toronto but I also think his best years are still to come. It's a risky move but a typical Toronto move...when has Toronto ever rebuilt their team from scratch? Leafs nation just doesn't have the patience.

How about Karlsson, Cowen and Lehner?

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

wprager wrote:

Vandelay wrote:Although I'm not really sure why they didn't go the offer sheet route, I don't think this deal is as bad as some here seem to think. There are rumors that Kessel isn't much of a team guy but he's young with a 30+ goal season under his belt. As bad as the leafs could've been this year, somehow they never seem to get in the lottery pick range. So, if you look at what they got this year (I'm assuming they would've finished around the same place this year), this trade is two Kadris and a second for one Kessel.

I agree, he won't have anything close to a Marc Savard in Toronto but I also think his best years are still to come. It's a risky move but a typical Toronto move...when has Toronto ever rebuilt their team from scratch? Leafs nation just doesn't have the patience.

How about Karlsson, Cowen and Lehner?

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Wiercoich as well, I mean really, that's a great example.

Ya, but we're not talking about Ottawa picks. I admit, I don't know much about Toronto scouts but given their history, this move makes sense for them. Not neccessarily a good move but, not a bad one, keeping in mind it's Toronto we're talking about.

Who is the best player Toronto has ever drafted and actually held on to as a franchise player? Burke probably pulled up TSNs draft rankings on draft day or better yet, the Ottawa sun (as they were predicting we'd take Kadri).

still two top ten picks would land them good players i don't know if i would have done something like that althought you are right they have a horrible draft record

I think it is a little too much to give up.

According to http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?t=32650, the compensation for the amount that Kessel signed for is:

$4,520,151 -to- $6,026,867 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd

Now, maybe Burke didn't want to use an offer sheet and risk retaliation on Toronto's RFAs.

Toronto has made some decent depth moves by going out and signing free agents like Hanson, Bozak and Gustavsson, but only time will tell if they are of equivalence to two 1st's and a second.

I guess Burke felt Toronto had enough depth to sacrifice those picks, but die hard Leaf fans must be questioning it.

If Leafs finish in bottom 5, or even 10, and Boston finishes in the top 5 or 10, look out for Boston loading up on quality prospects to add to their already decent farm, and watch as Leaf fans cry and Burke sweat over his possible mistake. Or Boston flips those picks into very nice players via trade.

Bottom line, I think that giving up two possible top 10 picks for a former top 5 is a very risky move, and if Murray did this, I would be pretty upset.

the only reason i can see him not using an offer sheet is after the hissy fit he threw when edmonton did that to penner

Dash wrote:I think it is a little too much to give up.

According to http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?t=32650, the compensation for the amount that Kessel signed for is:

$4,520,151 -to- $6,026,867 = 1st, 2nd, 3rd

Now, maybe Burke didn't want to use an offer sheet and risk retaliation on Toronto's RFAs.

Toronto has made some decent depth moves by going out and signing free agents like Hanson, Bozak and Gustavsson, but only time will tell if they are of equivalence to two 1st's and a second.

I guess Burke felt Toronto had enough depth to sacrifice those picks, but die hard Leaf fans must be questioning it.

If Leafs finish in bottom 5, or even 10, and Boston finishes in the top 5 or 10, look out for Boston loading up on quality prospects to add to their already decent farm, and watch as Leaf fans cry and Burke sweat over his possible mistake. Or Boston flips those picks into very nice players via trade.

Bottom line, I think that giving up two possible top 10 picks for a former top 5 is a very risky move, and if Murray did this, I would be pretty upset.

That's using old salary averages... for 2008/09 the following compensation levels apply:

Source: http://www.nhlscap.com/offer_sheets.htm

Amount: Compensation Due
$863,156 or less: None
$863,156 - $1,307,812: 3rd round pick
$1,307,812 - $2,615,625: 2nd round pick
$2,615,623 - $3,923,437: 1st and 3rd round pick
$3,923,437 - $5,231,249: 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$5,231,249 - $6,539,062: Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$6,539,062 or more: Four 1st round picks

So, he paid less than what an offer sheet would have required.

Interesting to note that Kessel just didn't want to play for the Bruins...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291746

Why do you think that is? Very odd...

Cuz he's a friggin baby. Always has been, Kessel is a younger, less talented, smaller Dany Heatley.

Anyone know is the 2008/09 compensation still applied? The cap went up, slightly (artificially, sure, but still) so the compensation should have gone up as well. About 3% takes that $5.231M to that $5.4M cap hit. Surely they could have adjusted the term to get the cap to the 1st/2nd/3rd threshold, and use the offer sheet. Or at least tell Chiarelli that that's what they were going to offer -- take it or leave it. Whether it was $5.4M or $5.2M Boston couldn't (hell, they wouldn't) match. I still think he could have saved hat second 1st rounder.

N4L wrote:Cuz he's a friggin baby. Always has been, Kessel is a younger, less talented, smaller Dany Heatley.

I don't think Heatley's the best comparison for him. He's much faster and IMO has better hands, but doesn't have Heatley's one-timer or spatial sense.

Also, I can't vouch for his maturity or character but I respect what he's had to overcome thus far.

asq2 wrote:

N4L wrote:Cuz he's a friggin baby. Always has been, Kessel is a younger, less talented, smaller Dany Heatley.

I don't think Heatley's the best comparison for him. He's much faster and IMO has better hands, but doesn't have Heatley's one-timer or spatial sense.

Also, I can't vouch for his maturity or character but I respect what he's had to overcome thus far.

I just ment all the BS that comes with them.