Worst UFA signings of 2009

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't care that Orr makes only 1 million, that's a horrible signing. I really think that's a waste personally. Like getting Holweg last year, for what?

I personally don't see a problem with the Antropov signing, DEFINITELY not the Hossa signing, DEFINITELY not the Havlat signing, DEFINITELY not the Cammalleri signing, nor do I have an issue with the Gionta signing actually.

Gaborik when healthy is a top 3 winger, but the money is silly in this economy, so...I'm on the fence on that one.

Komisarek is a good singing, nothing wrong with that really.

Bulin is good and bad because of age factors and injury history.

Neil is overpaid by 500K, but I wouldn't have him on that list.

Kotalik for 3 million is STUPID. So there's one I don't like.

I basically disagree with half of that top 10. Kind of a weak article from THN. Surprising.

I think the Hossa signing is great dollar wise and ridiculous term wise. How many 42 year olds are legitimate 5 (or so) million dollar players. Sure he can retire, but why would he with that kind of money still available?

I think the Havlat contract is ridiculous. He's had ONE major injury free season in the last forever. Too long. The dollars make sense, but if his shoulder keeps acting up, it will be as much of a headache contract as Gaborik's is sure to be for NYR.

Cammy and Gionta's contracts aren't bad on their own, but together they don't make much sense. Too much money for too few pounds, especially considering the goonery to come from TML.

I agree completely with your comments on Gaborik. Amazing signing if he stays healthy, but that's too big an "if" for me to make a real call. I maintain his contract is effectively Gomez redux. Crazy term for a player that could go either way. There's always risk, but the money they through at Gomez, and the term they through at Gabby are ridiculous.

Komisarek might be a good signing. I'll reserve judgement. I want to see how he performs. As it stands, I'll go with "not bad".

Orr...ridiculous money for a few minutes a game.

Antropov....again, I'm gonna reserve judgement. I think he could thrive in a new environment, but, as was pointed out in the article, too slow to keep up with Kovy.

Neil is a weird signing. He shouldn't make 2 mil, but the Sens lose him unless they pay him something similar to what the other teams offered. Is he worth 2 mil to keep? I'd like to think so, but my bias is probably in the way. I guess I reserve judgement there too. He has a lot of the intangibles (to use a word that I hate) that the Sens need. Tough, gritty, go to the net style of play. I think he can continue to fill a need there. I just don't know if it's worth 2 mil. Nice to see how much he wanted to be a Sen though.

wprager wrote:Is Kuba *really* a PP specialist? I am good with Campoli, Shannon and Karlsson manning the point. Rotate the three of them if you have to, or play one unit with 2/3 and another with 1/4 (defense/forward split). Funny how all our better PP QBs are short.

I wouldn't call Kuba a PP specialist, but he's one of the better passers on the blueline. He'll make sweet music slap-passing it to Heatley or Kovalev or Spezza or Alfredsson... :drooling:

IF Karlsson makes it (I doubt it), I assume he would take Campoli's spot on PP 1. Although Picard kills it on the PP as well.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Yeah that thread is the main reason June was our biggest month for posts. So we're getting plugs over at the main Sens forum now too. Interesting.

Main Sens board? Didn't know that existed.

I wonder who linked us there?

Yeah on the main site there's a Sens Army forum or something.

On the official site there is a Sens Army forum, as indicated above. It was the "Trade Spezza for Thornton" thread that had a link to this site. I can't remember who it was, but it was someone very active over there. I've seen his posts here as well. CASH maybe?

spader wrote:
I think the Hossa signing is great dollar wise and ridiculous term wise. How many 42 year olds are legitimate 5 (or so) million dollar players. Sure he can retire, but why would he with that kind of money still available?

I think the Havlat contract is ridiculous. He's had ONE major injury free season in the last forever. Too long. The dollars make sense, but if his shoulder keeps acting up, it will be as much of a headache contract as Gaborik's is sure to be for NYR.

Cammy and Gionta's contracts aren't bad on their own, but together they don't make much sense. Too much money for too few pounds, especially considering the goonery to come from TML.

I agree completely with your comments on Gaborik. Amazing signing if he stays healthy, but that's too big an "if" for me to make a real call. I maintain his contract is effectively Gomez redux. Crazy term for a player that could go either way. There's always risk, but the money they through at Gomez, and the term they through at Gabby are ridiculous.

Komisarek might be a good signing. I'll reserve judgement. I want to see how he performs. As it stands, I'll go with "not bad".

Orr...ridiculous money for a few minutes a game.

Antropov....again, I'm gonna reserve judgement. I think he could thrive in a new environment, but, as was pointed out in the article, too slow to keep up with Kovy.

Neil is a weird signing. He shouldn't make 2 mil, but the Sens lose him unless they pay him something similar to what the other teams offered. Is he worth 2 mil to keep? I'd like to think so, but my bias is probably in the way. I guess I reserve judgement there too. He has a lot of the intangibles (to use a word that I hate) that the Sens need. Tough, gritty, go to the net style of play. I think he can continue to fill a need there. I just don't know if it's worth 2 mil. Nice to see how much he wanted to be a Sen though.

True enough on the Hossa term. I don't really get it either - other than to lower the cap hit. 12+ year contract should go to Mike Richards and guys like that. I still love the cap hit - and I'm sure Chicago will deal with it when the time comes.

Havlat's signing was a desperate move by Minny, but I still think he's grown up a lot since the Ottawa days. He brings speed, skill and some actual leadership. As for the injuries, you take a chance if you're Minny. They weren't willing to deal Burns for Heatley, so they had to take what they could get. I still like this deal, but I thought it was 5 years...6 is a little longer than I would have like if I was Minny.

I agree with everything else, including Neil...I hope he's got some major moxie left in his tank.

SpezDispenser wrote:

spader wrote:
I think the Hossa signing is great dollar wise and ridiculous term wise. How many 42 year olds are legitimate 5 (or so) million dollar players. Sure he can retire, but why would he with that kind of money still available?

I think the Havlat contract is ridiculous. He's had ONE major injury free season in the last forever. Too long. The dollars make sense, but if his shoulder keeps acting up, it will be as much of a headache contract as Gaborik's is sure to be for NYR.

Cammy and Gionta's contracts aren't bad on their own, but together they don't make much sense. Too much money for too few pounds, especially considering the goonery to come from TML.

I agree completely with your comments on Gaborik. Amazing signing if he stays healthy, but that's too big an "if" for me to make a real call. I maintain his contract is effectively Gomez redux. Crazy term for a player that could go either way. There's always risk, but the money they through at Gomez, and the term they through at Gabby are ridiculous.

Komisarek might be a good signing. I'll reserve judgement. I want to see how he performs. As it stands, I'll go with "not bad".

Orr...ridiculous money for a few minutes a game.

Antropov....again, I'm gonna reserve judgement. I think he could thrive in a new environment, but, as was pointed out in the article, too slow to keep up with Kovy.

Neil is a weird signing. He shouldn't make 2 mil, but the Sens lose him unless they pay him something similar to what the other teams offered. Is he worth 2 mil to keep? I'd like to think so, but my bias is probably in the way. I guess I reserve judgement there too. He has a lot of the intangibles (to use a word that I hate) that the Sens need. Tough, gritty, go to the net style of play. I think he can continue to fill a need there. I just don't know if it's worth 2 mil. Nice to see how much he wanted to be a Sen though.

True enough on the Hossa term. I don't really get it either - other than to lower the cap hit. 12+ year contract should go to Mike Richards and guys like that. I still love the cap hit - and I'm sure Chicago will deal with it when the time comes.

Havlat's signing was a desperate move by Minny, but I still think he's grown up a lot since the Ottawa days. He brings speed, skill and some actual leadership. As for the injuries, you take a chance if you're Minny. They weren't willing to deal Burns for Heatley, so they had to take what they could get. I still like this deal, but I thought it was 5 years...6 is a little longer than I would have like if I was Minny.

I agree with everything else, including Neil...I hope he's got some major moxie left in his tank.

I agree 100% that Havlat has grown leaps and bounds. I just think the term is too big a risk for a team that was handcuffed for years with too much money invested in a player made of glass to invest similar years in another.

The more I think about, the more I HATE the Orr signing. That's one million dollars down the crapper IMO.

SpezDispenser wrote:The more I think about, the more I HATE the Orr signing. That's one million dollars down the crapper IMO.

Yeah pretty much, just to have a shirt on your team that actally reads "Orr" is worth the mil i suppose....

SpezDispenser wrote:The more I think about, the more I HATE the Orr signing. That's one million dollars down the crapper IMO.

but it was a burke move, that is blasphemy or burkesphemy if you want to call it that to criticize any move that he makes.

spader wrote:
I think the Hossa signing is great dollar wise and ridiculous term wise. How many 42 year olds are legitimate 5 (or so) million dollar players. Sure he can retire, but why would he with that kind of money still available?

You've got to look at the break-down of that salary. CapGeek.com let's you pick a player, then click on the "breakdown" link for a particular contract to get a pop-up of the salary breakdown for each contract year. In Hossa's case he would be making $1M, $1M, $750K, $750K in the last four years of his contract. As a 39-year old maming $1M but with a $5.3M cap hit he would be perfect for a team that has a self-imposed salary ceiling that is below the cap-floor. In other words, they can afford to pay him $1M, and the $5.3M cap hit will help them get to the cap floor. Or he can just retire -- after all, $1M or $750K isn't that much to give up when you've just earned $50 over the last 8 years.

I'm not sure about Pronger's contract, though. His contract break-down (according to CapGeek) is $4,985,714 in each of the 7 years of the deal. In another article I read that he was making something around $550K in the last couple of years, but without seeing the actual breakdown (in the article) I don't really know if that's correct information. Also, while the Flyers are saying that this contract is a "before 35" contract, Dregger is reporting this:

According to the NHL, the answer is yes. The seven-year, $35 million
extension Pronger agreed to on Tuesday doesn't commence until after
June 30, 2010. Pronger will be 35 at that point and any remaining
salary will remain on the cap.

Ouch, did Holmgren just make a big, big mistake?

More on Pronger's deal. Panaccio provides a breakdown in his blog on HB:

Chris Pronger's 7-year extension with the Flyers is worth $34.45 million against the cap.

The email I received today presented a decimal point in the final two
years which are worth $525,000 and not $5.25 as I read the email. The
correct figures are:

$7.6, $7.6, $7.2, $7.0, $4.0, $525,000 and $525,000

So there are those near-league-minimum salaries in the last two years. This doesn't really make sense. I'm sure the CBA only allows a player's salary to drop no more than 50% year-to-year, so how can it go from $4M to $525K? Another article I read suggested that the contract has bonuses allowed under the CBA to players 35 or over, but that same article says the actual salary is $43.9M, while the cap hit is under $35M.

I'm really confused and so must have been the reporter. If you add bonuses to the above salaries then either the drop after year 5 is even more significant, or the bonuses make years 6 and 7 much more substantial than just $525K. Bu then there's no way he would want to retire and leave $5-6M on the table.

Also, just what kind of bonuses are available under the CBA that do not have to show up on hte cap? I cry foul.

wprager wrote:More on Pronger's deal. Panaccio provides a breakdown in his blog on HB:

Chris Pronger's 7-year extension with the Flyers is worth $34.45 million against the cap.

The email I received today presented a decimal point in the final two
years which are worth $525,000 and not $5.25 as I read the email. The
correct figures are:

$7.6, $7.6, $7.2, $7.0, $4.0, $525,000 and $525,000

So there are those near-league-minimum salaries in the last two years. This doesn't really make sense. I'm sure the CBA only allows a player's salary to drop no more than 50% year-to-year, so how can it go from $4M to $525K? Another article I read suggested that the contract has bonuses allowed under the CBA to players 35 or over, but that same article says the actual salary is $43.9M, while the cap hit is under $35M.

I'm really confused and so must have been the reporter. If you add bonuses to the above salaries then either the drop after year 5 is even more significant, or the bonuses make years 6 and 7 much more substantial than just $525K. Bu then there's no way he would want to retire and leave $5-6M on the table.

Also, just what kind of bonuses are available under the CBA that do not have to show up on hte cap? I cry foul.

I believe performance bonuses for players over 35, as opposed to signing bonuses a la Dany Heatley, aren't reflected on the cap. They could structure his contract to give him $500,000 if he plays 71+ games, for instance, and then another $500,000 if they make it to the second round, plus another $1million if they win the Stanley Cup.

So essentially, if he has a healthy season, he can make at least another $2 million in bonuses on his base salary of $525,000. But I'm not 100% sure, so don't take my word for it without looking it up in the CBA.

wprager wrote:More on Pronger's deal. Panaccio provides a breakdown in his blog on HB:

Chris Pronger's 7-year extension with the Flyers is worth $34.45 million against the cap.

The email I received today presented a decimal point in the final two
years which are worth $525,000 and not $5.25 as I read the email. The
correct figures are:

$7.6, $7.6, $7.2, $7.0, $4.0, $525,000 and $525,000

So there are those near-league-minimum salaries in the last two years. This doesn't really make sense. I'm sure the CBA only allows a player's salary to drop no more than 50% year-to-year, so how can it go from $4M to $525K? Another article I read suggested that the contract has bonuses allowed under the CBA to players 35 or over, but that same article says the actual salary is $43.9M, while the cap hit is under $35M.

I'm really confused and so must have been the reporter. If you add bonuses to the above salaries then either the drop after year 5 is even more significant, or the bonuses make years 6 and 7 much more substantial than just $525K. Bu then there's no way he would want to retire and leave $5-6M on the table.

Also, just what kind of bonuses are available under the CBA that do not have to show up on hte cap? I cry foul.

On issue #1: Yep, I'm pretty sure that's right. It was an issue with Alfie's new deal, I remember. For that reason, I don't think Panaccio's got those numbers quite right.

On issue #2: There are NO bonuses whatsoever that don't show up on the cap. The only think close to a loophole in the system is the 'bonus cushion' -- which allows a team to defer a certain amount of bonus money onto next year's cap hit -- but as RobbyJ astutely points out, that window appears to be closing after this year. Only players on ELCs or who sign a deal at 35 years old or older can get contracts with performance bonuses built in. In all cases, when those bonuses are met, they count against your cap, either this year or, if the bonus cushion is invoked, next year (with this year looking like the last year you'll be able to do this at all). There is no way to pay a player money and not have it show up on the team's cap hit.

Not seeing the stupidity of the Leafs signings.

Colton Orr IS only 1 mill. He is a Goon, nothing more. The idea is that the Leafs were pushed around last year, and will continue to play a lot of young guys this year. Burke wants them to be comfortable out there that someone has their back so they can play bigger. I like the signing.

Komisarek... until the injury last year, everyone though this guy was a premier D-man. Furthermore, there are a number of teams that would have signed him. This is not a bad signing at all considering the ridiculous premium on D-men of course.

Stupid article. The fact is, there has not nearly been the stupidity this year that there was last year. The writer is really stretching to get something on paper I think.

Yeah, I don't see the issue with the Orr signing... he's not being signed for points, that's for sure. As for Komi... I guess we'll see how that one works out and if he can get back to his top form.

What's the difference between Orr and a dime a dozen tough guy like McGrattan who makes league minimum? And why a 4 year contract? And what does he bring to the table when there's no fighting in a game? 1 million is a fair chunk for a one dimensional guy IMO. Just like I think Neil got 500K too much for what he brings, I think Orr also got 500K too much.

SpezDispenser wrote:What's the difference between Orr and a dime a dozen tough guy like McGrattan who makes league minimum? And why a 4 year contract? And what does he bring to the table when there's no fighting in a game? 1 million is a fair chunk for a one dimensional guy IMO. Just like I think Neil got 500K too much for what he brings, I think Orr also got 500K too much.

Just to back up the windbaggery of his initial presser. Just like the rest of his signings, as a matter of fact. He even characterized Kadri as a "mean little bastard".

shabbs wrote:Yeah, I don't see the issue with the Orr signing... he's not being signed for points, that's for sure. As for Komi... I guess we'll see how that one works out and if he can get back to his top form.

I think the problem is, who is being signed for points in T.O.?

spader wrote:

shabbs wrote:Yeah, I don't see the issue with the Orr signing... he's not being signed for points, that's for sure. As for Komi... I guess we'll see how that one works out and if he can get back to his top form.

I think the problem is, who is being signed for points in T.O.?

Blake and Grabs will carry the team.



Heh heh.