The New Centaurs: Murray's Makeover

asq2 wrote:In regards to Semenov, Lee, Picard, Volchenkov, Phillips and Smith are firmly entrenched on the roster for next season. I'd rather give the #6 spot to Karlsson.

You're assuming Phillips and Smith are still in Ottawa then...

I don't see them being dealt, to be frank.

Phillips has the A on this team and entrenched in the community. His family is here and he's still a good deal at $3.5 million a season. It's been rough so far this season, but we can say that of almost everyone. He's been the #1 here for three seasons and is a good role model.

As for Smith, it just doesn't look good to deal a UFA signing before even the first year of the signing is up IMO.

asq2 wrote:Not the first four you listed (in regards to Phoenix).

At least, not without giving up a pretty damn valuable asset.

On another site, I saw a proposal that I thought was intriguing and that both fan-bases agreed upon.

Kuba for Lashoff.

Thoughts?

I saw that as well how ever I am still of belief that Kuba can also fetch us a pick. Especially with the log jam of teams out west who are in the battle for the 8th spot.

After looking over the deals and stats from last year the closet comparisons I can find are Brian Campbell and Brad Stuart who were both UFA and dealt at the deadline. Stuart got LA 2nd and 4th rounder while Campbell was dealt for Bernier and a 1st. Kuba sits in between them based on over all points put up over their careers.

So does Kuba get you a prospect and a 2nd, a 1st and prospect, or a combination of picks or prospects. Should be interesting to see.

Phoenix30 wrote:

asq2 wrote:Not the first four you listed (in regards to Phoenix).

At least, not without giving up a pretty damn valuable asset.

On another site, I saw a proposal that I thought was intriguing and that both fan-bases agreed upon.

Kuba for Lashoff.

Thoughts?

I saw that as well how ever I am still of belief that Kuba can also fetch us a pick. Especially with the log jam of teams out west who are in the battle for the 8th spot.

Of course, Lashoff himself was a first-rounder (albeit in 2005).

I'd like a pick too, I'm just unsure of the depth of this draft.

asq2 wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

asq2 wrote:Not the first four you listed (in regards to Phoenix).

At least, not without giving up a pretty damn valuable asset.

On another site, I saw a proposal that I thought was intriguing and that both fan-bases agreed upon.

Kuba for Lashoff.

Thoughts?

I saw that as well how ever I am still of belief that Kuba can also fetch us a pick. Especially with the log jam of teams out west who are in the battle for the 8th spot.

Of course, Lashoff himself was a first-rounder (albeit in 2005).

I'd like a pick too, I'm just unsure of the depth of this draft.

Do you really believe the B's will part with Lashoff for a pending UFA? I'd take the the deal if it were offered, but I can't see why the Bruins do this. If it's not broken don't fix it I say.

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

asq2 wrote:Not the first four you listed (in regards to Phoenix).

At least, not without giving up a pretty damn valuable asset.

On another site, I saw a proposal that I thought was intriguing and that both fan-bases agreed upon.

Kuba for Lashoff.

Thoughts?

I saw that as well how ever I am still of belief that Kuba can also fetch us a pick. Especially with the log jam of teams out west who are in the battle for the 8th spot.

Of course, Lashoff himself was a first-rounder (albeit in 2005).

I'd like a pick too, I'm just unsure of the depth of this draft.

Do you really believe the B's will part with Lashoff for a pending UFA? I'd take the the deal if it were offered, but I can't see why the Bruins do this. If it's not broken don't fix it I say.

The Bruins fans were pretty universally in favour of this.

Something to consider about the detroit model. The team is a good combination of young players and vets. Its a well balanced team that built through the draft while not rushing players.

As for Elliott, even if he has a knock out season I wouldn't appoint him #1 yet. Lets see how he does in preseason next fall first.

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

asq2 wrote:Not the first four you listed (in regards to Phoenix).

At least, not without giving up a pretty damn valuable asset.

On another site, I saw a proposal that I thought was intriguing and that both fan-bases agreed upon.

Kuba for Lashoff.

Thoughts?

I saw that as well how ever I am still of belief that Kuba can also fetch us a pick. Especially with the log jam of teams out west who are in the battle for the 8th spot.

Of course, Lashoff himself was a first-rounder (albeit in 2005).

I'd like a pick too, I'm just unsure of the depth of this draft.

Do you really believe the B's will part with Lashoff for a pending UFA? I'd take the the deal if it were offered, but I can't see why the Bruins do this. If it's not broken don't fix it I say.

The Bruins fans were pretty universally in favour of this.

Which makes me wonder about Lashoff. He's still a young guy, and they are willing to trade him for a pending UFA, who isn't an upper echelon player? What do they know about Lashoff?

asq2 wrote:I don't see them being dealt, to be frank.

Phillips has the A on this team and entrenched in the community. His family is here and he's still a good deal at $3.5 million a season. It's been rough so far this season, but we can say that of almost everyone. He's been the #1 here for three seasons and is a good role model.

As for Smith, it just doesn't look good to deal a UFA signing before even the first year of the signing is up IMO.

OK, I see your logic there...

So are you saying that Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith and Lee are a lock, with two or three spots in play on D, or is Picard also a sure bet to start next year?

davetherave wrote:

asq2 wrote:I don't see them being dealt, to be frank.

Phillips has the A on this team and entrenched in the community. His family is here and he's still a good deal at $3.5 million a season. It's been rough so far this season, but we can say that of almost everyone. He's been the #1 here for three seasons and is a good role model.

As for Smith, it just doesn't look good to deal a UFA signing before even the first year of the signing is up IMO.

OK, I see your logic there...

So are you saying that Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith and Lee are a lock, with two or three spots in play on D, or is Picard also a sure bet to start next year?

Well, considering Picard has never been a scratch (to my knowledge) and been in our top-4 for quite a while, I'd say he's pretty much a lock too.

And I'd definitely take Picard over Semenov.

So Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith, Lee and Picard are already on next year's blue-line as it stands.

Unless we go out and get a Bouwmeester (or other top-notch defenceman), is there any real reason to not give our 6th slot to a rookie?

So from the sounds of it, our defense is inadequate, yet it will remain essentially unchanged, other than Kuba leaving, and Lee moving in full-time?

Not sure I see the path to that conclusion...
I'd suspect that Smith ends up moving over the summer, Kuba at trade deadline, and Schubert gets traded/waived over summer if they can't pawn him off sooner (he's been scratched too many times to keep paying him).

asq2 wrote:So Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith, Lee and Picard are already on next year's blue-line as it stands.

Unless we go out and get a Bouwmeester (or other top-notch defenceman), is there any real reason to not give our 6th slot to a rookie?

That's the difference to success and being mediocre IMO. If Murray does nothing to acquire a true number one D-man (and he's been terribly unsuccessful thus far), then we'll fill that slot with someone young or middle-tiered D-man and we'll suck next year.

If he fills the number one spot with a top-notch D-man, then I think we take few decent strides forward (depending on Elliot).

Acrobat wrote:So from the sounds of it, our defense is inadequate, yet it will remain essentially unchanged, other than Kuba leaving, and Lee moving in full-time?

Not sure I see the path to that conclusion...
I'd suspect that Smith ends up moving over the summer, Kuba at trade deadline, and Schubert gets traded/waived over summer if they can't pawn him off sooner (he's been scratched too many times to keep paying him).

So how do you propose changing it? Packaging Erik Karlsson and our first for a defenceman? Giving Bouwmeester $8 million a season? Or trading Spezza or Heatley?

If we do the first two, our future really suffers. If we choose the last option, we're not going to get any better anyway.

Re-building is not a one-year thing.

504Heater wrote:

That's the difference to success and being mediocre IMO. If Murray does nothing to acquire a true number one D-man (and he's been terribly unsuccessful thus far), then we'll fill that slot with someone young or middle-tiered D-man and we'll suck next year.

If he fills the number one spot with a top-notch D-man, then I think we take few decent strides forward (depending on Elliot).

Look at the difference in the Florida Panthers this year. They traded Olli Jokinen for Boynton and Ballard, and they are far superior defensively--plus they're contending for a playoff spot. With the addition McCabe, and JayBo as a holdover, they have a legitimate Top 4 D, with the underrated Karlis Skrastins, and Bryan Allen, filling out the defense corps.

IMHO, with Kuba's presumed departure, the Senators need minimum 2 Top 4 D-Men. Looks like Brian Lee is ready for prime time, but Jason Smith and Picard can't honestly be called Top 4.

davetherave wrote:

504Heater wrote:

That's the difference to success and being mediocre IMO. If Murray does nothing to acquire a true number one D-man (and he's been terribly unsuccessful thus far), then we'll fill that slot with someone young or middle-tiered D-man and we'll suck next year.

If he fills the number one spot with a top-notch D-man, then I think we take few decent strides forward (depending on Elliot).

Look at the difference in the Florida Panthers this year. They traded Olli Jokinen for Boynton and Ballard, and they are far superior defensively--plus they're contending for a playoff spot. With the addition McCabe, and JayBo as a holdover, they have a legitimate Top 4 D, with the underrated Karlis Skrastins, and Bryan Allen, filling out the defense corps.

IMHO, with Kuba's presumed departure, the Senators need minimum 2 Top 4 D-Men. Looks like Brian Lee is ready for prime time, but Jason Smith and Picard can't honestly be called Top 4.

Getting a top-4, much less 2, is much easier said than done.

What do you propose? That we sacrifice our future? That we give waaaaay too much money for UFAs? Or that we trade our only established scorers and cripple this team offensively?

Florida has been building for a long time. Yes, getting Ballard helps, but so does the emergence of Frolik, Booth, and their other young forwards. And even then, they're not a lock to make the playoffs.

There aren't any quick fixes. We're not going to just suddenly contend next season.

504Heater wrote:

asq2 wrote:So Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith, Lee and Picard are already on next year's blue-line as it stands.

Unless we go out and get a Bouwmeester (or other top-notch defenceman), is there any real reason to not give our 6th slot to a rookie?

That's the difference to success and being mediocre IMO. If Murray does nothing to acquire a true number one D-man (and he's been terribly unsuccessful thus far), then we'll fill that slot with someone young or middle-tiered D-man and we'll suck next year.

If he fills the number one spot with a top-notch D-man, then I think we take few decent strides forward (depending on Elliot).

A defenceman isn't the only thing we lack.

We desperately need to improve our top-6 winger depth, and we need to find a real second line centre to complement Spezza.

All this we can do through the draft, but it'll take more than one season to do it.

Long-term, we have a first line centre in Spezza, potentially a first line winger if we keep Heatley, great defenceman depth in Karlsson, Lee, Volchenkov, Wiercioch and Picard but we could use a number 1 like Bouwmeester, Cowen or Hedman. We have great bottom-6 depth going forward (especially if we can build that Foligno - O'Brien - Smith line I dream of), and hopefully a goalie in Elliott.

So what we need is to fill out our winger depth, establish a second line and get a #1 defenceman. Defenceman-wise, there are three potentially elite #1s that I can think of that are available, and they are Hedman, Cowen and Fowler. Winger-wise, top-flight wingers are Schroeder (I'm growing to like him more and more) and MSP, and then Kabanov in 2010 (but he's a pipe-dream). Hopefully you can pick up second-line wingers with later first rounders (such as SJs) but this draft isn't great in terms of winger depth from what I see. Centre-wise, there are many many options, the best being Tavares, Duchene, Schenn, Kane and Kadri this season and Hall, Granlund, McFarland and Pulkkinen in 2010.

In terms of the market, top-notch players are rarely let go, overpriced and few and far between. They're also usually older. We're probably not going to pull UFAs in based on the city and we're certainly not going to pull players in based on our competitiveness. So that means if we go the UFA route, we're going to have to overpay, which can have disastrous consequences for the future, especially if the Cap goes down.

Trades are always possible, but the value of players isn't high when the team isn't performing well. The only big draws are probably either guys on the roster we'd like to keep and probably need to be competitive (Spezza, Volchenkov, Heatley) or guys for the future (Karlsson, our first, Lee).

I just don't know that UFAs or Trades can solve our problems. Building through the draft isn't a guarantee either, obviously, but I think the potential benefits are very high.

I can't see a quick fix here.

If we're out of the top-4 and miss Hedman, Cowen, JT and MSP, want Jordan Schroeder.

I know we need a centre but I've been watching the TSN games on demand of the WJHC and Schroeder is unbelievable.

He might be surpassing MSP in my books.