The New Centaurs: Murray's Makeover

cash wrote:Its amazing how many people feel like that. If you believe that, you have to watch him play a lot closer. There are so many scoring chances that he negates through his smart play....
It doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to trading him; it just means I recognize how much of an impact he has on this team. To say you can fill his role with Z.Smith is truly ridiculous. And if McAmmond could fill his role, given his far greater offensive skill, don't you think it would've already happened?

What would truly be the difference better Chris Kelly and Stephane Yelle other than age? 1.1 million in cap savings comes to mind. Kelly is smart and hard working, but 2.1 million? I dunno about that.

Thanks...hope you voted in the poll!

davetherave wrote:

asq2 wrote:
Fisher to Columbus for Nikita Filatov

UFAs targeted: Francois Beauchemin, Manny Fernandez, Brian Boucher

Trade up for Hedman
Draft picks: Jared Cowen, Brayden Schenn
European prospects: G Jaroslav Janus (Slovak WJs), G Andrei Yankov (Kazakh WJs)

Thoughts and specific suggestions from our posters?

Columbus counters with Frederick Modin for Jason Spezza.

No way on earth we're getting Hedman, Cowen and Schenn either.

OK, these are suggestions...not assuming all are possible.

You're joking about Modin and Spezza of course.

What do you propose?

If Kuba won't resign:
Vermette and Kuba to Columbus for their first and third, maybe more.

Draft one of Hedman, Tavares, Cowen, MSP, Schroeder, Duchene, Schenn, Kane
If neither MSP nor Schroeder are taken, take at least one winger in the first round (maybe a Kassian or Ferraro).

Take a goalie like Roy or Lee in a later round.

Ideally start next season with Regin, Zubov, Lee, and Elliott here.

We're not going to be good next season unless we deal away all of our top assets. I just don't think we can re-build this team through UFA. The draft is the way to go.

The voting in the poll seems to indicate there is substantial support for a 'youth movement'...and cleaning out the middle of the roster as part of that process.

Interesting that most don't seem to think Ottawa should go after a UFA #1 netminder.

Will be interesting to see what the poll looks like at 100 votes.

Brian Elliott's done everything that could be asked of him.

In my opinion, there's little reason to pursue another #1 unless he proves he can't handle the duties.

504Heater wrote:

cash wrote:Its amazing how many people feel like that. If you believe that, you have to watch him play a lot closer. There are so many scoring chances that he negates through his smart play....
It doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to trading him; it just means I recognize how much of an impact he has on this team. To say you can fill his role with Z.Smith is truly ridiculous. And if McAmmond could fill his role, given his far greater offensive skill, don't you think it would've already happened?

What would truly be the difference better Chris Kelly and Stephane Yelle other than age? 1.1 million in cap savings comes to mind. Kelly is smart and hard working, but 2.1 million? I dunno about that.

Where is Stephane Yelle coming from? Z.Smith is a long way from a S.Yelle...
I never said I liked what Kelly was making. I wanted him re-signed and I knew it was going to be somewhere between 2 and 2.25, but I never thought it should anything more than 1.7-1.8... Is Kelly better than Yelle? I believe he is and he's also the entire term of his contract younger than Yelle. Is Kelly worth 2.1 in his prime? I guess we'll see.
I really hope he is...

He put up 38 points once...
If he can top 35 a couple more times, then I will look back on that signing as a good signing.

davetherave wrote:The voting in the poll seems to indicate there is substantial support for a 'youth movement'...and cleaning out the middle of the roster as part of that process.

Interesting that most don't seem to think Ottawa should go after a UFA #1 netminder.

Will be interesting to see what the poll looks like at 100 votes.

That's awfully ambitious considering the most votes a poll has gotten doesn't even reach 40 but considering the response you've gotten already it's quite possible.

asq2 wrote:Brian Elliott's done everything that could be asked of him.

In my opinion, there's little reason to pursue another #1 unless he proves he can't handle the duties.

What if Elliott gets an RFA offer sheet?

Which, if he plays well, he just might.

Doesn't that oblige Bryan Murray to have a Plan B?

cash wrote:Where is Stephane Yelle coming from? Z.Smith is a long way from a S.Yelle...
I never said I liked what Kelly was making. I wanted him re-signed and I knew it was going to be somewhere between 2 and 2.25, but I never thought it should anything more than 1.7-1.8... Is Kelly better than Yelle? I believe he is and he's also the entire term of his contract younger than Yelle. Is Kelly worth 2.1 in his prime? I guess we'll see.
I really hope he is...

Just that guys like Yelle are a dime a dozen and could serve a similar purpose to Kelly. Again, I don't dislike him, but I question the 2 million contract at this juncture.

davetherave wrote:
What if Elliott gets an RFA offer sheet?

Which, if he plays well, he just might.

Doesn't that oblige Bryan Murray to have a Plan B?

What kind of offer sheet could he possibly attract? 2 years @ 2 million per year? That would be stretching it a little IMO.

504Heater wrote:

davetherave wrote:
What if Elliott gets an RFA offer sheet?

Which, if he plays well, he just might.

Doesn't that oblige Bryan Murray to have a Plan B?

What kind of offer sheet could he possibly attract? 2 years @ 2 million per year? That would be stretching it a little IMO.

If Halak didn't get one last year, Elliot won't get one this year.

If the offer sheet is less than $1.3M, Murray matches (compensation is only a third round pick).

If its up to $2.6M, then think hard - you get a second rounder.

Over $2.6M, and it's a first, so you might want to let him go, and try for a UFA goalie as a stop-gap...

(not that I think anything over $1.3M is likely...)

I've noticed that very few posters seem to think Ottawa needs a legitimate #1 goalie.

Does this mean after just a few games, that Elliott has, in their eyes, locked down the starting job?

Elliott could be asking himself a number of questions. He may or may not be ready to be a Number One. Or is he even a '1a' already? Remember, he hasn't had any time in the NHL as a backup either, so he hasn't a chance to really measure himself.

Consider this: if Brian Elliott continues to play well, is he further motivated by the possibility where, as an RFA, a relatively sizeable paycheck gets offered, either by the Senators or a rival team?

And where does Alex Auld, who appears to have dropped off the grid after early season heroics, fit in?

Should Auld be shopped in June?

Should Bryan Murray go for a Nicklas Backstrom, Manny Fernandez, Tim Thomas, among others available, and try to begin 2009-10 solid in goal (with a 1 and 1a) for the first time in years?

Thanks everyone...as always, looking forward to your comments, and please vote in the poll. I intend to run the results by Jason York and Mike Eastwood on the air...your voices should be heard! :pirat:

I think the feeling is that if you follow the Detroit blue-print you need a solid goalie, not more than that. And if Elliott turns out to be a bust there are lots of UFAs and RFAs becoming available in the next couple of years. This year is pretty much done, and we are not aiming to make much of a splash next year either (maybe make the playoffs but not contend for the Cup) we can see how Elliot progresses. For all those reasons we don't need a #1 now or even next year.

wprager wrote:I think the feeling is that if you follow the Detroit blue-print you need a solid goalie, not more than that. And if Elliott turns out to be a bust there are lots of UFAs and RFAs becoming available in the next couple of years. This year is pretty much done, and we are not aiming to make much of a splash next year either (maybe make the playoffs but not contend for the Cup) we can see how Elliot progresses. For all those reasons we don't need a #1 now or even next year.

OK, let's say that as you suggest, we follow the 'Detroit Model' (can we say the 'Boston Model' as well? but that's for another post 8) ).

Chris Osgood is having less than a banner year, but he's still a 'money' goalie. His playoff performance last year was awesome--I watched him in every game he played, and the competition he faced was massive. And I have seen him play some excellent games this year as well. Still, the Wings are probably looking ahead...

Ty Conklin has developed into another 'money' goalie. He carried the Pens last year when Fleury was hurt, and he has been an excellent compliment to Osgood as Ozzy has had his issues. Either one can and will steal games, and most importantly, even whem they give up a lot of goals, they'll come back and make game winning saves.

Detroit has had true Number One goalies, and depth at the goalie position, for years, with Osgood, Conklin, Hasek, Jimmy Howard, Joey McDonald, Legace, and Joseph.

I watch Detroit often and IMHO, as a team, they are probably the best two-way club in the NHL. No team plays with better puck possession. And their balance at every position is unmatched.

We agree Ottawa has a long way to go. Until they can reach a superior level of overall defensive play, IMHO the Senators don't have the luxury of average goaltending. Under Hartsburg, they have improved due to his system. But they still give up way too many scoring chances, and all the goalies so far give up a soft goal in almost every game.

Building from the goalie position out, Ottawa can return to contention much faster. IMHO Brian Elliott would do very well alongside a real #1.

This year seems to me to be a very good time to secure that position, with UFA and RFA goalies including Backstrom, Thomas, Fernandez, Khabibulin, Roloson, Anderson, Lehtonen, Conklin, Harding, McDonald, and many more.

So why wait?

I agree with wprager - a reliable, mobile defense corps is key. They can make the goalies look a lot better (or worse) than they really are. I don't think our defense is anything close to that now, but I do think that we have some serious talent coming down the pipes. Add in a key player or two via trade or free agency, and I think we are on our way to the "Detroit" model.

The issue with bringing in one of the above-mentioned goalies, is that we end up blowing a wad on the 'tender, and that leaves us less to shore up the blue line. This weakens us both offensively and defensively.

This is probably a poor example, but if we had a choice of Fernandez and Aucoin (total salary for 2008-09 $8.75M) or Bouwmeester with Elliot/Auld in net (projected net salary ~$8.5-9.0M), I believe we'd be far better off with J-Bo and our current pair in net. Fernandez would certainly help keep the GA down, but J-Bo would do that as well as increase the GF. Also, we have Auld to act as a mentor (of sorts) for Elliot; J-Bo would be a great mentor (along with others) for Karlsson, Wiercoch, etc.

That list is incredibly unappealing. The only goalies I'm confident in are Lehtonen and maybe Harding and even those have question marks. Anderson, McDonald and Conklin are not really #1s. Thomas is not leaving Boston, and he's always been sort of a question for me. I don't really want anything to do with Minnesota goalies, and Rollie and Bulin are too old.

We're not going to be competing for the Cup for a while, IMO. I'd give the games to Elliott to let him get used to the NHL schedule and let him develop.