The New Centaurs: Murray's Makeover

hemlock wrote:

davetherave wrote:IMHO Murray will play his cards close to the vest and wait for a playoff-hungry West team looking to add an asset, before he makes a deal.

The longer he waits, the more valuable his tradeables are. And IMHO NTC's and NMC's won't stop him from moving someone.

Jason York gave his take during 'Healthy Scratches' on Team 1200 today...he believes that Melnyk is livid about the way the season has gone sideways.

As for Eugene's 'bomb' remark, that was just to let the media know what he thinks of them.

York's view was that the Senators will be very active in June.

Two Words: Wade Redden

Murray reportedly had deals worked out with both Philly and SJ to move him, and he refused. The Philly deal was for Jeff Carter. That really, really hurts.

I am positive that the deal with Philly did not incude Jeff Carter, I think it was for Lupol and Jason Smith.

Philliy offered Carter to the Leaf's last summer for Kubina (I think)

I believe the proposed Carter to Leafs deal involved Kaberle or Sundin.

From TheStar.com, January 11, 2009 :

Fletcher, when he was the GM of the Leafs, had a deal worked out at last year's trade deadline that would have seen Toronto send Kaberle to Philadelphia for Jeff Carter and a No.1 draft pick.

http://www.thestar.com/article/569004

Here's the blog entry on the proposed Redden trade that never was from TheNHLArena.com topic 'Senschirp' Sept 16/08:

Wade Redden is a New York Ranger. He signed a 6 year/39 million dollar deal with the Rangers, leaving the Senators; a team with which he had played all 11 seasons of his career. However, had it not been for his refusal to waive his no trade clause, Redden would have ended last season a member of the San Jose Sharks.

Speaking with someone the other day, apparently the rumoured deal would have in fact been a three-way trade involving the Philadelphia Flyers.

To San Jose: Wade Redden
To Philadelphia: Patrick Marleau
To Ottawa: Jeff Carter

http://thenhlarena.com/index.php?showtopic=57510

davetherave wrote:Here's the blog entry on the proposed Redden trade that never was from TheNHLArena.com topic 'Senschirp' Sept 16/08:

Wade Redden is a New York Ranger. He signed a 6 year/39 million dollar deal with the Rangers, leaving the Senators; a team with which he had played all 11 seasons of his career. However, had it not been for his refusal to waive his no trade clause, Redden would have ended last season a member of the San Jose Sharks.

Speaking with someone the other day, apparently the rumoured deal would have in fact been a three-way trade involving the Philadelphia Flyers.

To San Jose: Wade Redden
To Philadelphia: Patrick Marleau
To Ottawa: Jeff Carter

[url=http://thenhlarena.com/index.php?showtopic=57510

http://thenhlarena.com/index.php?showtopic=57510[/quote[/url]]

Man your quick. I was just about to post this same rumored trade at the deadline. To this day I still curse Redden for his refusal to waive.

[quote="Phoenix30"]

davetherave wrote:Here's the blog entry on the proposed Redden trade that never was from TheNHLArena.com topic 'Senschirp' Sept 16/08:

Wade Redden is a New York Ranger. He signed a 6 year/39 million dollar deal with the Rangers, leaving the Senators; a team with which he had played all 11 seasons of his career. However, had it not been for his refusal to waive his no trade clause, Redden would have ended last season a member of the San Jose Sharks.

Speaking with someone the other day, apparently the rumoured deal would have in fact been a three-way trade involving the Philadelphia Flyers.

To San Jose: Wade Redden
To Philadelphia: Patrick Marleau
To Ottawa: Jeff Carter

http://thenhlarena.com/index.php?showtopic=57510[/quote]

Man your quick. I was just about to post this same rumored trade at the deadline. To this day I still curse Redden for his refusal to waive.

You're not alone Phoenix... Trust me.

While Redden was within his rights, Damn you Mucks for giving him one in the first place... Ah, *sighs* what could have been??

This discussion is gonna make me puke

Here's an odd one for you.

Some time ago a regular on the Globe & Mail hockey threads had Peter Forsberg, who is according to the poster is a friend of Alfredsson's and has a house in Almonte, considering a comeback playing for the Senators.

Forsberg's decision today puts an end to his NHL comeback this season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/wires/01/30/2040.ap.hko.sweden.forsberg.0269/

That said, has anyone else heard of this rumour, and does it make any sense?

[quote="Cronenbergfan"]

Phoenix30 wrote:

davetherave wrote:Here's the blog entry on the proposed Redden trade that never was from TheNHLArena.com topic 'Senschirp' Sept 16/08:

Wade Redden is a New York Ranger. He signed a 6 year/39 million dollar deal with the Rangers, leaving the Senators; a team with which he had played all 11 seasons of his career. However, had it not been for his refusal to waive his no trade clause, Redden would have ended last season a member of the San Jose Sharks.

Speaking with someone the other day, apparently the rumoured deal would have in fact been a three-way trade involving the Philadelphia Flyers.

To San Jose: Wade Redden
To Philadelphia: Patrick Marleau
To Ottawa: Jeff Carter

http://thenhlarena.com/index.php?showtopic=57510[/quote]

Man your quick. I was just about to post this same rumored trade at the deadline. To this day I still curse Redden for his refusal to waive.

You're not alone Phoenix... Trust me.

While Redden was within his rights, Damn you Mucks for giving him one in the first place... Ah, *sighs* what could have been??

Sorry boys but I hate this deal. Carter scores way too much. The red lights would be distracting...

LOL

It was all so much simpler when there were just six teams LOL.

I think about what could have been.
Then I also recall how the fans rallied behind Wade after his mother passed away, and gave him "a little time". Which became months. Then two years.

Chara wanted to stay in Ottawa. He is part owner of Baton Rouge. He helped design the renovation of the SBP weight room (he was basically living there anyhow)

One took our trust, then turned on us.
We turned on the other.
A blunder of epic proportions.

F***

Well, if the Senators draft Hedman or Cowen, those painful memories may be erased.

We should always remember that professional sports is a business. Players are usually traded for business reasons. When sentiment comes into play, good decisions are sometimes not acted upon, and bad decisions are sometimes made.

I wasn't here in Ottawa when the Chara/Redden decision went down, but from what I saw of the Z-Man on TV, he was clearly a major presence on ice that just needed time to 'grow into' that huge frame.

But then, hindsight is 20/20.

There are plenty of stories of hockey players considered washed up, problematic, or otherwise inadequate; just as others are considered 'must haves' and 'franchise players'. They get traded and blossom, or, as often as not, turn out to be duds.

Could you imagine the return at that time if we traded either one.

davetherave wrote:Well, if the Senators draft Hedman or Cowen, those painful memories may be erased.

We should always remember that professional sports is a business. Players are usually traded for business reasons. When sentiment comes into play, good decisions are sometimes not acted upon, and bad decisions are sometimes made.

I wasn't here in Ottawa when the Chara/Redden decision went down, but from what I saw of the Z-Man on TV, he was clearly a major presence on ice that just needed time to 'grow into' that huge frame.

But then, hindsight is 20/20.

There are plenty of stories of hockey players considered washed up, problematic, or otherwise inadequate; just as others are considered 'must haves' and 'franchise players'. They get traded and blossom, or, as often as not, turn out to be duds.

Chara wasn't washed up when this decision went down. He wasn't waiting to grow into his frame. At the time he was THE shutdown guy in the league. He made people fear coming over our blueline. He gave this team an identity. Redden was chosen simply because he was more mobile. It was thought that Chara would be less effective in the "new" NHL. He would have signed for the money Redden got, had we offered it to him instead. We lost an identity when he left. Plain and simple. Everyone on this team played a little bigger when he was here.

This isn't like Philly trading Patrick Sharp, who went on to blossom in Chicago. This was simply a bad hockey move. One that still haunts us today.

Phoenix30 wrote:Could you imagine the return at that time if we traded either one.

Redden, Chara, Pothier, Preissing all gone for nothing. Add into that mix, Mez and Corvo and it's no mystery why our blueline is in shambles.

There is no easy fix here. Adding a Jay-Bo helps, but we are looking at rebuilding this defense from within. Wiercioch and Karlsson are a great start, but a stud like Cowen or Hedman would go a long way towards getting our defense back to being the strength of this team.

I am now convinced that we will be rebuilding. Murray has be burned too much by UFAs to allow a guy like Kuba to leave for nothing. I think he and Melnyk are giving lip service until they can finally come out and admit the season is lost and this team is broken. I figure once we get close to the deadline, we'll be all but out of it, and then they can risk fan anger by announcing that they will be rebuilding.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and to think that we can just make a couple of moves to return to being a serious competitor is laughable. We have too many holes. Sure we could trade Heatley, but that isn't necessarily making us better now. It's pulling the plug on one hole to cover another.

We wouldn't be starting from scratch, like the Leafs and Islanders are doing. If we can get value for some of our assets like Heatley, Vermette, Kuba, and Fisher, we'd be well on our way back to competitiveness. I doubt it's a Philly style rebuild that happens overnight, but we'll certainly get there quicker than the Leafs or Islanders.

hemlock wrote:Redden, Chara, Pothier, Preissing all gone for nothing. Add into that mix, Mez and Corvo and it's no mystery why our blueline is in shambles.

There is no easy fix here. Adding a Jay-Bo helps, but we are looking at rebuilding this defense from within. Wiercioch and Karlsson are a great start, but a stud like Cowen or Hedman would go a long way towards getting our defense back to being the strength of this team.

I am now convinced that we will be rebuilding. Murray has be burned too much by UFAs to allow a guy like Kuba to leave for nothing. I think he and Melnyk are giving lip service until they can finally come out and admit the season is lost and this team is broken. I figure once we get close to the deadline, we'll be all but out of it, and then they can risk fan anger by announcing that they will be rebuilding.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and to think that we can just make a couple of moves to return to being a serious competitor is laughable. We have too many holes. Sure we could trade Heatley, but that isn't necessarily making us better now. It's pulling the plug on one hole to cover another.

We wouldn't be starting from scratch, like the Leafs and Islanders are doing. If we can get value for some of our assets like Heatley, Vermette, Kuba, and Fisher, we'd be well on our way back to competitiveness. I doubt it's a Philly style rebuild that happens overnight, but we'll certainly get there quicker than the Leafs or Islanders.

Trading those guys would get us more than half way there I'd say.

Heatley = top three forward/top two dman + prospect + first round pick
Vermette = prospect + mid-round pick or top six forward/top four dman
Kuba = first round pick (from a contending team)
Fisher = top six forward/top 4 defenseman

Not too shabby for a rebuild. Add in there our own two first round picks, and a second that will almost be a first, and you have a team that looks extremely different next year.
You pay to get Bouwmeester, and suddenly your blueline doesn't look as ridiculous.

Bouwmeester - Volchenkov
Phillips - Lee
Picard - rookie/UFA/Smith

That looks like a good start to a nice turnaround on the backend. In a year you move out a couple of guys to possibly make room for Weircioch/Karlsson/Cowen/Hedman.

PKC wrote:

hemlock wrote:Redden, Chara, Pothier, Preissing all gone for nothing. Add into that mix, Mez and Corvo and it's no mystery why our blueline is in shambles.

There is no easy fix here. Adding a Jay-Bo helps, but we are looking at rebuilding this defense from within. Wiercioch and Karlsson are a great start, but a stud like Cowen or Hedman would go a long way towards getting our defense back to being the strength of this team.

I am now convinced that we will be rebuilding. Murray has be burned too much by UFAs to allow a guy like Kuba to leave for nothing. I think he and Melnyk are giving lip service until they can finally come out and admit the season is lost and this team is broken. I figure once we get close to the deadline, we'll be all but out of it, and then they can risk fan anger by announcing that they will be rebuilding.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and to think that we can just make a couple of moves to return to being a serious competitor is laughable. We have too many holes. Sure we could trade Heatley, but that isn't necessarily making us better now. It's pulling the plug on one hole to cover another.

We wouldn't be starting from scratch, like the Leafs and Islanders are doing. If we can get value for some of our assets like Heatley, Vermette, Kuba, and Fisher, we'd be well on our way back to competitiveness. I doubt it's a Philly style rebuild that happens overnight, but we'll certainly get there quicker than the Leafs or Islanders.

Trading those guys would get us more than half way there I'd say.

Heatley = top three forward/top two dman + prospect + first round pick
Vermette = prospect + mid-round pick or top six forward/top four dman
Kuba = first round pick (from a contending team)
Fisher = top six forward/top 4 defenseman

Not too shabby for a rebuild. Add in there our own two first round picks, and a second that will almost be a first, and you have a team that looks extremely different next year.
You pay to get Bouwmeester, and suddenly your blueline doesn't look as ridiculous.

Bouwmeester - Volchenkov
Phillips - Lee
Picard - rookie/UFA/Smith

That looks like a good start to a nice turnaround on the backend. In a year you move out a couple of guys to possibly make room for Weircioch/Karlsson/Cowen/Hedman.

Nice assessment. With trading those guys, we'd easily be able to absorb a contract like Jay-Bo. You're probably right in that we'd be more than halfway. Personally, I'd rather do this sooner rather than later. Do it while certain guys have nice value, rather than pulling a Leafs and trying in vain to hang on too long. Do it now, and the length of time it takes to get back to competitiveness is shortened considerably. Hell, we'd be alot younger and more exciting right away. Being a playoff team making just the move you mentioned isn't out of the question, and on top of that the future would be brighter. This is definitely the direction I'd like to see the team take.