General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

For as bad as you say his stats were, he was still top 5 in the league as a defenseman, and had to deal with the Olympics and was still amongst the best in the league.

You're argument is moot when it comes to stats when you look at Markov and realize his are worse, but you've offered him more.

Whatever Subban gets now, he'll likely want more on a long term deal after... Habs are gonna be caught again...

Would love to know what the Habs offered as a long team deal last night and what Subban's side really wants...

Would not be surprised to see Subban pull a Weber next year and work an offersheet into the mix to force Montreal's hand.

An offer sheet of that magnitude results in MTL getting the other team's 5 next 1st rounders.

Montreal will probably just trade him before he becomes a RFA again.

Hopefully each sides' demands leak soon... would give us a better idea of who's being crazy.

tim1_2 wrote:An offer sheet of that magnitude results in MTL getting the other team's 5 next 1st rounders.

Montreal will probably just trade him before he becomes a RFA again.

RFA compensation tops out at 4 1st round picks for salaries over $8.41M. If the cap goes up significantly they will likely update the tables so $8.5M could be only two 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Plus a team that made the Conference Final last year is not likely to want 4 draft picks over the next 2 years. They have an elite goalie and an elite defenseman. They are decent down the middle -- Galchenyuk and Eller could develop into a pretty good 1-2 centers and they have Plekanec holding things down until they are ready. They need a couple more wingers to round out the top-six but they could be serious contenders in 2-3 years; maybe sooner if Tinordi accelerates his development. If they lose Subban and get four picks over two draft years they likely fall out of contention until one of those picks replaces Subban (none of their D prospects play Subban's style).

Flo The Action wrote:hahaha. i think you guys have it all wrong.
I'm sure they offered him a lucrative 8 year deal. PK (and his agent) want short term deals. they can probably get a 2-3 year deal for 7.5 now. after he can walk as a UFA or really leverage the team for 10+ a season. it's really about maximizing the amount of money he can get.
i'm not sure PK wants to leave Montreal once he gets to UFA, but he'll want all the tools to control his destiny.

to me this is a perfect example of an agency trying to figure out what is the best way to maximize revenues from a player with a player willing to go with it. this might set a precedence for many big contracts to come with young players.

for us it could be a good idea to lock up bobby rye for the longest term possible as he could also be a player which in three years costs us a lot more then what he does today.

It's high risk poker for sure. If he has an injury riddled season going into his next contract or worse a career ending injury.

shabbs wrote:Hopefully each sides' demands leak soon... would give us a better idea of who's being crazy.

I'm not a Subban fan, but what more does a guy have to do to prove he's earned it? They bully him into a bridge contract, pretty much saying "Prove it". He gets a Norris leading the league in points by a defenseman, gets selected for the Olympic team and brings back Gold, is the face of the franchise (gotta count for something -- lots of jersey sold). You back up the truck for a guy like that and not ask him to bend over again.

If he wants to be the highest paid D in the league, give him $8M (Weber's deal is $7.8M). When the cap goes to $80 he'll be making 10% of your payroll (max under the CBA is 20%, I believe).

Now, if he wanted $8.5M then you have to negotiate a bit.

I seriously doubt he was asking for $10M, but if that's what he wanted, give him a short-term deal.

22_4_ever wrote:For as bad as you say his stats were, he was still top 5 in the league as a defenseman, and had to deal with the Olympics and was still amongst the best in the league.

You're argument is moot when it comes to stats when you look at Markov and realize his are worse, but you've offered him more.

I didn't say they were bad. I just wouldn't offer him 9 million.

He was crap after the Olympics, and didn't even play in the games really. People should take a big hint over him being snubbed out of the top 6 for the majority of the Olympics

Subban getting huge term and money is a huge risk. Guy is an extremely selfish player on the ice... off it he might be "fine" but he comes with a lot of blemishes. Montreal could get a boat load for him in any deal and IMO if they do they will be better for it down the line.

I certainly wasn't expecting the Habs to shell out whatever Subban wanted. But I was sure they'd find common ground and avoid this mess. Surely they had to see that it would be better in the long run. But, clearly they still have doubts and questions.

This is so delicious. I hope the Habs and Subban's relationship is permanently damaged.

  

They were talking about who is better than subban on prime time sports on the fan590, and they named like 7 guys before even mentioning karlsson. Took em like 2 minutes. At least elliotte said they probably used his contract as subbans comparison

spader wrote:This is so delicious. I hope the Habs and Subban's relationship is permanently damaged.

  

no doubt! i'm loving this. all my habs friends have chewed their nails right through to their fingers.

I've softened my stance on Subban but still don't consider myself a big fan of his, and while I cheered on the Habs against the Bees and Rags in the playoffs, I'd hardly say I'm a Habs fan. That said, I don't see this situation as anything positive. Sorry, I don't need another fanbase to experience anguish and despair for me to have a good day.

Well, maybe Leafs Nation, but that's different.

Anyhow, if you read Elliotte's latest it certainly sounds like Subban wanted $8.5M and the Habs were offering $6.5M, using Karlsson as a comparable. If Subban expects anyone to think he is the best defenseman in the league at the tender age of 26 or whatever he is, then he is slightly delusional. But if he wants to argue he's in the top-five I'll listen to the argument. But just because you have the highest salary does not mean you are the best given where the cap is and where it is going. The last guy to sign will always have a higher ceiling simply because of the moving cap. So if the Habs think he's comparable to Karlsson, then they need to take that $6.5M and slide up relative to where the cap is going to be, and not necessarily at the start of the contract.

If this ends up being a one-year arbitration-awarded contract then this will be bad all around, whether he ends up in Montreal or elsewhere. Situations like this are what lead to record arbitration awards, record contracts and rising ticket prices and, eventually, another lockout. Contracts like Karlsson's are what keeps things slightly more sane.

Before anyone posts anything about Paul George, let me just say that I would appreciate any pictures (especially animated GIFs) to be placed inside spoiler tags. I do *not* need to see that.

Well, that was a highly entertaining read:
http://thehockeywriters.com/30-bold-predictions-for-the-upcoming-nhl-season/

Some made me laugh out loud:

Teams that need defensive help at the deadline will come calling for Mike Green.

- I don't think that was meant to be funny.

Some had me shaking my head:

Even with the breakout performance of PK Subban, they couldn’t overcome the loss of Price.

- Subban had a sub-par season; the breakout was the lockout-shortened year.

Some had me saying "Wha...?"

With everybody else in the conference improving, this to me is an easy call.  The bold prediction here is that they will jump Buffalo and land the number one pick in the 2015 draft.  What a story that will be, since McDavid is from Newmarket, Ontario.  He would land somewhat close to his hometown.

- Everybody else improving?
- number one pick -- well, at least that's intriguing
- Newmarket is "somewhat close"?  As compared to what, Toronto? Buffalo?