Predict Spezza's return

22_4_ever · **151** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:26 pm

22_4_ever

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Don't how much it was brought up, but looking back at the Heatley trade just about everyone thought Ottawa got screwed. In hindsight it wasn't that bad, in fact when you add in Andy Sutton that we traded the pick for.

I know it wasn't a great deal, but turned out not as bad as everyone thought. We all said it at the time. When it becomes public that the player with a ntc wants out, you are screwed and will almost never get fair value back.

I think this deal is much like that one...5 years from now we will look back and say it wasn't that bad, however for me it's not going to be in the players we got back, but the cap it opened up and the change in culture that attracted a different blend of players to our city

NEELY · **152** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:46 pm

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Michalek vs Heatley was a straight up win for the Sens.

22_4_ever · **153** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:55 pm

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NEELY wrote:Michalek vs Heatley was a straight up win for the Sens.

I think looking back it was, but I don't remember too many crowing about it...

DefenceWinsChampionships · **154** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:07 pm

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22_4_ever wrote:

NEELY wrote:Michalek vs Heatley was a straight up win for the Sens.

I think looking back it was, but I don't remember too many crowing about it...

It is now. At the time I recall many of us being unhappy with the return. I suspect that same thing will happen when Spezza is forced to retire due to back issues and Guptill, Paul, and Chiasson are popping 15-20 goals a season each. I'd much rather a 30-40 point production from three players than 60-70 point production for one player for maybe another 3-4 seasons.

Spezza trade is a win.

DefenceWinsChampionships · **155** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:11 pm

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wprager wrote:The Oilers woes have more to do with bad goaltending, bad defense, bad team defesive play than player size.

Spezza may not be a heavy hitter but he's a big boy (6'3" and 220 lbs) and can absorb a hit. He'll be fine.

Pretty sure his back injury was caused by opening cupboard doors.

If you look at Dallas' division, they have to get through St Louis, Chicago, Minnesota, and Colorado. That't not including Anaheim, LA, SJ in the other division who they will need to beat out for a good playoff spot. I think Van City will be better than last season, as will Colorado (experience), Edmonton, and Nashville.

What happens when Spezza misses 40+ games due to injury?

PTFlea · **156** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:22 pm

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He's going to a team that has to play a very grinding and unforgiving schedule. It's not SJ or Anaheim, but it's close. He's going to get hit - a LOT.

Ev · **157** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:27 pm

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Dallas are gonna look awfully stupid in a couple of months when Spezza and Hemsky are both on IR

DefenceWinsChampionships · **158** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:28 pm

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Ev wrote:Dallas are gonna look awfully stupid in a couple of months when Spezza and Hemsky are both on IR

But they're going to look great when they're healthy

Ev · **159** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:30 pm

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Dallas didn't need offence.

Spezza and Hesmky weren't world beaters together. Everyone overrated them based on 20 games.

NEELY · **160** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:42 pm

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Yah lets see how Hemsky and Spezza (2 of the most inconsistent players in the NHL) play together over a year stretch, maybe 2 or 3. See if they can play a combined total of 246 games in 3 seasons.

NEELY · **161** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:43 pm

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22_4_ever wrote:

NEELY wrote:Michalek vs Heatley was a straight up win for the Sens.

I think looking back it was, but I don't remember too many crowing about it...

That's why it is so nice to be on that side of the fence.

PTFlea · **162** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:20 pm

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I can't recall what I said about that trade. I probably wasn't thrilled Cheechoo was part of it - and I HATE only getting 2nd round picks for star players, but I know I liked Michalek a lot.

I don't know if I want to search or not for fear of looking dumb. Smile

Flo The Action · **163** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:34 pm

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wprager wrote:So you're saying that big and physical players who have success in the East will also have success in the West, but small and/or finesse players who have success in the East will fail in the West? Seguin is not Marty St. Louis, for sure, but he is a finesse player more than a physical power forward. Thornton is big but, just like Spezza, not very physical. He will stand in there and absorb the hits to make the play but doesn't go out of his way to deliver hits. He's been pretty successful (but, of course, since he hasn't won a Cup he's just another loser).

Please provide examples of skill players who excelled in the East and failed in the West.

For the record, in 2011-12 (a good year for Spezza) he was 5-20-25 in 22 games against the West (counting Winnipeg as West since they are now; counting Detroit as well, since they were good). A quick check for the 5 years before that (excluding Winnipeg this time) he had 57 points in 67 games -- so, given he is a PPG player over his career I'd say his production does go down playing out West. But don't forget that he'll be playing 2LC behind Seguin, so I'd expect the level of competition he faces to be lower this time around.

it's not about finding players that have excelled in the east and failed in the west. you can take thornton for example. he may not be physical but as stated he can absorb the hits. I have serious doubts as to whether he can do that day in, day out.
his back is not in good shape and let's see after facing full seasons based in the west if he puts himself in situations to receive hits or will he shy away from those. my guess is we'll start seeing a player who's effectiveness is more suited to the powerplay and who's effectiveness 5 on 5 declines drastically.

PTFlea · **164** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:52 pm

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Turns out I was very pleased about the Heatley trade. Pumped about Michalek and cautiously optimistic about Cheechoo. What burned my arse a bit - predicatably - was the 2nd round pick not being a 1st.

sandysensfan · **165** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:33 pm

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So just like Alfie, Spezza's taking a shot at Eugene's budget.

"I think it's paramount to be in an organization that's committed to winning. I think that word gets around the League fast when a team has made a decision to try to be a team that tries to compete every year and win," Spezza said. "As a player, that's all you want, is that opportunity to give yourself a chance to win."

PTFlea · **166** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:57 pm

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In related news, Spezza wouldn't know winning if it hit him in the junk.

DefenceWinsChampionships · **167** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:23 pm

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Flo The Action wrote:

wprager wrote:So you're saying that big and physical players who have success in the East will also have success in the West, but small and/or finesse players who have success in the East will fail in the West? Seguin is not Marty St. Louis, for sure, but he is a finesse player more than a physical power forward. Thornton is big but, just like Spezza, not very physical. He will stand in there and absorb the hits to make the play but doesn't go out of his way to deliver hits. He's been pretty successful (but, of course, since he hasn't won a Cup he's just another loser).

Please provide examples of skill players who excelled in the East and failed in the West.

For the record, in 2011-12 (a good year for Spezza) he was 5-20-25 in 22 games against the West (counting Winnipeg as West since they are now; counting Detroit as well, since they were good). A quick check for the 5 years before that (excluding Winnipeg this time) he had 57 points in 67 games -- so, given he is a PPG player over his career I'd say his production does go down playing out West. But don't forget that he'll be playing 2LC behind Seguin, so I'd expect the level of competition he faces to be lower this time around.

it's not about finding players that have excelled in the east and failed in the west. you can take thornton for example. he may not be physical but as stated he can absorb the hits. I have serious doubts as to whether he can do that day in, day out.
his back is not in good shape and let's see after facing full seasons based in the west if he puts himself in situations to receive hits or will he shy away from those. my guess is we'll start seeing a player who's effectiveness is more suited to the powerplay and who's effectiveness 5 on 5 declines drastically.

This is where I'm at personally, though I think his 5 on 5 play may improve solely on the basis that it can't get any worse than last season.

I find it humorous that the debate isn't necessarily about whether or not Spezza can succeed in the west. The discussion we're having is whether or not he can survive. To mutually exclusive outcomes.

wprager · **168** Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:33 pm

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NEELY wrote:

22_4_ever wrote:

NEELY wrote:Michalek vs Heatley was a straight up win for the Sens.

I think looking back it was, but I don't remember too many crowing about it...

That's why it is so nice to be on that side of the fence.

Don't forget, also, the wasted roster spot for Cheechoo.

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Predict Spezza's return

151 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:26 pm

22_4_ever

152 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:46 pm

NEELY

153 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:55 pm

22_4_ever

154 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:07 pm

DefenceWinsChampionships

155 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:11 pm

DefenceWinsChampionships

156 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:22 pm

PTFlea

157 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:27 pm

Ev

158 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:28 pm

DefenceWinsChampionships

159 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:30 pm

Ev

160 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:42 pm

NEELY

161 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:43 pm

NEELY

162 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:20 pm

PTFlea

163 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:34 pm

Flo The Action

164 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:52 pm

PTFlea

165 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:33 pm

sandysensfan

166 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:57 pm

PTFlea

167 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:23 pm

DefenceWinsChampionships

168 Re: Predict Spezza's return Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:33 pm

wprager

169 Re: Predict Spezza's return

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