LAST GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Pittsburgh Penguins :: 7:30pm ET :: Sun. Apr. 13th, 2014

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day do people trust what Spezza is doing right now?  Is this going to be the Spezza for say 60 plus games next year?  Do people trust that Spezza is going to be healthy next year?  Not only next year but for 4, 5, 6 more seasons?  Do people really believe a Spezza lead team is going to turn the corner with him at the helm?

He's had a good last stretch but guess what?  Nothing that happened after they lost to the Islanders mattered.  When the games matter Spezza was either hurt or ineffective and the Sens lost.  Is that someone you can commit to long term as the leader of that young team?  IMO no, not even close and all he did down the stretch was increase his trade value.  

Best hope for the Sens is that St.Louis bombs (and it looks like they will) and they pay out the a** for him.  If they lose in the first round you can bet Miller won't be back and the Blues will have a 1st round pick (25th or 26th overall so not great) that could be had.  If St.Louis bombs you can bet they will be offering the world for Spezza.

Spezza and Greening for Berglund, Paajarvi, Rattie, and the 1st.

Best case scenario is Spezza for Schwartz but there is no way the Blues move him IMO.

Better hope Hitchcock gets fired as well, tend to shift focus in style of play which makes spezza more attractive. Will Bmurr have the balls? I thought he would but I'm definitely worried about zibanejad, and i wonder whatever recently happened to him affects the spezza move....at least till next trade deadline.

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

Ev wrote:

Michallica wrote:

shabbs wrote:The GWG stat is a funny one, as you don't know it will be the GWG until after the game is over... so, it's just a goal.

Yeah but it also proves that no goal is ever 'useless' even if it is spezza scoring it

Yes the goals are important, I meant it it not important that they are gwgs

It's open to perception I guess.  Personally I like GWG stat, shows me a guy scores and figures in the game decision.  However, I do agree that GWG =/ clutch

GWG stat is flawed for sure.  If you win 6-1 how important is that 2nd goal?   Again Spezza passes the stat test but does he pass the eye test?  IMO no and that's all Ev is saying here.

How is the second goal not important then? It proves that the goal being scored isn't just stat padding....you can argue the 5th, and 6th goal is stat padding until the other team comes back to score 3 unanswered. Then is it stat padding? Like I said, open to perception, it's not the first thing I look at when examining a player's worth but it's a good stat nonetheless.

Full disclosure: I'm not advocating or saying spezza is 'clutch' in any way shape or form. He's not and he doesn't pass the 'eye' test either. A much better argument I think is did he figure into the GWG column much before we were pretty much eliminated? That answer is definitely NO

shabbs wrote:Lehner goes:

https://twitter.com/Syl_St_Laurent/status/455456177246466048

Told ya. My coin flips are infallible. Until they are.

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:At the end of the day do people trust what Spezza is doing right now?  Is this going to be the Spezza for say 60 plus games next year?  Do people trust that Spezza is going to be healthy next year?  Not only next year but for 4, 5, 6 more seasons?  Do people really believe a Spezza lead team is going to turn the corner with him at the helm?

He's had a good last stretch but guess what?  Nothing that happened after they lost to the Islanders mattered.  When the games matter Spezza was either hurt or ineffective and the Sens lost.  Is that someone you can commit to long term as the leader of that young team?  IMO no, not even close and all he did down the stretch was increase his trade value.  

Best hope for the Sens is that St.Louis bombs (and it looks like they will) and they pay out the a** for him.  If they lose in the first round you can bet Miller won't be back and the Blues will have a 1st round pick (25th or 26th overall so not great) that could be had.  If St.Louis bombs you can bet they will be offering the world for Spezza.

Spezza and Greening for Berglund, Paajarvi, Rattie, and the 1st.

Best case scenario is Spezza for Schwartz but there is no way the Blues move him IMO.

Better hope Hitchcock gets fired as well, tend to shift focus in style of play which makes spezza more attractive.  Will Bmurr have the balls?  I thought he would but I'm definitely worried about zibanejad, and i wonder whatever recently happened to him affects the spezza move....at least till next trade deadline.

Hitchcock isn't going anywhere and Hitchcoch is also on record of being a Spezza guy which is shocking. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what style a team plays, you need to score and score on the PP, Spezza will help with that and St.Louis is exactly the type of team he would slip right onto and play his role and only his role.

shabbs wrote:

Michallica wrote:

shabbs wrote:The GWG stat is a funny one, as you don't know it will be the GWG until after the game is over... so, it's just a goal.

Yeah but it also proves that no goal is ever 'useless' even if it is spezza scoring it

Well, you could argue that that if a team is down 10-1 with less than a 1 minute to go and they score, that goal is technically "useless".

Reminds me of Heatbag, who would always seem to score goals when the game was no longer close - we'd either be up by 4 or down by 4 and he's pot one in.

Probably because that's when Spezza would start playing and get the primary assist.

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

Ev wrote:

Michallica wrote:

shabbs wrote:The GWG stat is a funny one, as you don't know it will be the GWG until after the game is over... so, it's just a goal.

Yeah but it also proves that no goal is ever 'useless' even if it is spezza scoring it

Yes the goals are important, I meant it it not important that they are gwgs

It's open to perception I guess.  Personally I like GWG stat, shows me a guy scores and figures in the game decision.  However, I do agree that GWG =/ clutch

GWG stat is flawed for sure.  If you win 6-1 how important is that 2nd goal?   Again Spezza passes the stat test but does he pass the eye test?  IMO no and that's all Ev is saying here.

How is the second goal not important then?  It proves that the goal being scored isn't just stat padding....you can argue the 5th, and 6th goal is stat padding until the other team comes back to score 3 unanswered.  Then is it stat padding?  Like I said, open to perception, it's not the first thing I look at when examining a player's worth but it's a good stat nonetheless.

If it's 6-0 and the other team scores a goal with 10 seconds to make it 6-1... how important was it? Look at the Zibanejad goal against Colorado, who cares who scored the 2nd goal for the Avs, that game was already over.

I'll say this though about the season in general, I think a lot of it came back to Anderson playing awful early on and the Sens never being able to gain any traction. I have stated this before but IF they move Anderson and just go with Lehner as the #1 that might be a big enough change to let a little air back into the room, the need to move Spezza was be so severe.

Three GWG in four games is pretty unusual. Too small a sample size, of course, but still interesting. Say what you want, but he's tied for the team lead. Fifth on the team in ESG. Considering the guy is a playmaker that's not that bad for a really bad season. And in case you were wondering, he led the team in even strength assists.

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

Ev wrote:

Michallica wrote:

shabbs wrote:The GWG stat is a funny one, as you don't know it will be the GWG until after the game is over... so, it's just a goal.

Yeah but it also proves that no goal is ever 'useless' even if it is spezza scoring it

Yes the goals are important, I meant it it not important that they are gwgs

It's open to perception I guess.  Personally I like GWG stat, shows me a guy scores and figures in the game decision.  However, I do agree that GWG =/ clutch

GWG stat is flawed for sure.  If you win 6-1 how important is that 2nd goal?   Again Spezza passes the stat test but does he pass the eye test?  IMO no and that's all Ev is saying here.

How is the second goal not important then?  It proves that the goal being scored isn't just stat padding....you can argue the 5th, and 6th goal is stat padding until the other team comes back to score 3 unanswered.  Then is it stat padding?  Like I said, open to perception, it's not the first thing I look at when examining a player's worth but it's a good stat nonetheless.

If it's 6-0 and the other team scores a goal with 10 seconds to make it 6-1... how important was it?  Look at the Zibanejad goal against Colorado, who cares who scored the 2nd goal for the Avs, that game was already over.  

I don't know man, if anything it shows that the 2nd goal was what really won them the game cuz it was the eventual winner....? We're definitely not seeing eye to eye on this. If anything it shows the need for more goals cuz guess Dung can happen. Our definitions of 'important' are different

Statistical anomaly.

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

Ev wrote:

Michallica wrote:

shabbs wrote:The GWG stat is a funny one, as you don't know it will be the GWG until after the game is over... so, it's just a goal.

Yeah but it also proves that no goal is ever 'useless' even if it is spezza scoring it

Yes the goals are important, I meant it it not important that they are gwgs

It's open to perception I guess.  Personally I like GWG stat, shows me a guy scores and figures in the game decision.  However, I do agree that GWG =/ clutch

GWG stat is flawed for sure.  If you win 6-1 how important is that 2nd goal?   Again Spezza passes the stat test but does he pass the eye test?  IMO no and that's all Ev is saying here.

How is the second goal not important then?  It proves that the goal being scored isn't just stat padding....you can argue the 5th, and 6th goal is stat padding until the other team comes back to score 3 unanswered.  Then is it stat padding?  Like I said, open to perception, it's not the first thing I look at when examining a player's worth but it's a good stat nonetheless.

If it's 6-0 and the other team scores a goal with 10 seconds to make it 6-1... how important was it?  Look at the Zibanejad goal against Colorado, who cares who scored the 2nd goal for the Avs, that game was already over.  

I don't know man, if anything it shows that the 2nd goal was what really won them the game cuz it was the eventual winner....?  We're definitely not seeing eye to eye on this.  If anything it shows the need for more goals cuz guess Dung can happen.  Our definitions of 'important' are different

Maybe, maybe not.  I disagree but it's not an overly important argument one way or another.  The stat that matters are wins and losses and IMO there is a clear way in the NHL to achieve the wins and that's to play a complete game in all 3 zones and be a responsible hockey team.  This leads me back to Spezza.

Spezza has shown the ability to actually play this way which IMO makes it even worse than he doesn't.  It's simply the desire to play that way and that's it.  I've seen him back check so why doesn't he do it every shift?  I have seen him down low in the zone, covering his man, making solid defensive efforts, so why doesn't he do that every period?  I have seen him hold on and eat the puck along the boards so why doesn't he do that every game?  Only answer is he does it when he wants to and you can't have that in a captain.

Spezza has a spot on any NHL team but he can't be the leader, he can't be the #1 center, and he can't be a guy that's leaned on.  No matter what in Ottawa he is all 3 of those things and that won't change as long as he is in Ottawa.  His value will never be higher than it is today, the circumstances surrounding his future along with his injury history indicate now is the time to trade him.  Will they?  Questionable to say the least.

He's not fooling a lot of people, the Spezza you saw mid season is probably the guy you will see more often than not through 82 games. Like they said on the radio, it's fools gold.

When asked if Jason Spezza would be back with the #Sens next season, Brent Wallace replied, "Probably not."

NEELY wrote:When asked if Jason Spezza would be back with the #Sens next season, Brent Wallace replied, "Probably not."

Meh. I don't think he gets moved. I'll be surprised if he does. But you never know. All depends on how deep the changes go in the off season.

Getcha popcorn ready.

I don't know if I hope Spezza is moved or if I think Spezza is moved.

Let's just say I would bet a large amount on him being traded.

Ev wrote:Let's just say I would bet a large amount on him being traded.

I think it's smart money as well. I just don't see how you can commit to Spezza long term and if you can't do that why is he not being moved while his value is still high when other teams need a player exactly like him.

Like I was saying, Blues bomb out and that's exactly where he lands IMO if they are willing to pay.

Dreger just said he thinks Spezza is gone too.