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NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:Paul Maclean hasn't been good.  What was the need to put in kassian and take out Dacosta on saturday?  Kassian sure kept kadri honest.

Did I mention I hate losing to the mother fukcking leafs?

What's MacLean to do?  Kassian has been fine all year and truth is for some reason the Sens play well with him in the lineup.  If the Sens end up winning that game then MacLean looks like a genius.  When you are down by 1 or are tied and you are trying to win the game, yah, Kassian is pretty much useless because he can't take a penalty to send a message.

MacLean has kept the Turris line together because it's amazing.  The Smith line with Greening and Neil have been solid as well.  Condra is a 4th line winger who does his job on the PK and Conacher is pretty much the guy that's just kind of there that he throws out there.  He's tried every combination in the world with Spezza and NOTHING WORKS.  The D?  Well easy decisions with Phillips out and the youth showed on Saturday night for sure but that happens with a group which I can personally accept because it's part of the curve... be it Cowen letting Kessel get to the net or Gryba's turn over, it happens.

What I can't except?  Well everyone knows so I won't say it again in this little rant.

Well Maclean lost and messed with a winning lineup.  Oh and I don't know what our record is but I don't think we've won a single game against the leafs with kassian in there.  Yes, 100% maclean deserves blame.  If he won, I'd sing his praises but bottom line is he coached a team that LOST.  Hence he deserves blame as well.

Again I have a hard time blaming MacLean right now because of the players he currently has. Everyone understood the Kassian move whether they agreed or disagreed with it, the move was transparent. Was Da Costa the difference there? No. Did Kassian do what he was supposed to do? Yes.

Blaming MacLean for the lack of response IMO is 100% accurate, that's his job to get his team focused. That said it wasn't because of the Kassian move.

Only thing that MacLean really screwed up this year IMO was taking Lehner out of the net and putting Anderson is when Lehner was playing incredible. Other than that he has done well with a crowded blueline and a questionable captain.

I also question moving Z-Bad to Spezza's wing. He should have left the Michalek-Z-Bad-Conacher line together and just put Spezza with the leftovers.
MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Condra-Spezza-DaCosta (until Stone comes back)
Michalek-Zibanejad-Conacher
Greening-Smith-Neil

Some of this is on Murray for calling up a centre instead of a winger, but whatever, it's the coach that lines them up.

MacLean shouldn't have to do much to get the team to emotionally respond.  This is the Leafs, everyone in that room knows what it means and there's players there who've experienced it for years.

It falls on leadership to set an example and inspire the relatively young, inexperienced team that we do have.  As soon as things go south, their fragile confidence, focus falls apart and the turnovers, passive play begins in fear of making another mistake.

Some of this is due to the young blue line they decided to go with and to try and develop it for the future. This isn't a lineup that will be competing for a Cup anytime soon. The pieces are sort of there but they're not at that level yet.

JG Pageau's girlfriend looks like a bimbo

You can question moving Zibanejad to the wing all you want but fact is he's a top 6 forward who can score some goals and is decent (still learning) away from the puck. Spezza needs him more on that wing that the Sens do Zibanejad in the middle. This is 100% the problem in Ottawa and it's everything is done to get Spezza going and make sure he's not a total liability on the ice. They even moved MacArthur and Ryan there to get him going but that was an absolutely disaster top to bottom.

MacLean's refusal to break up the top line right now IMO shows the fans and management who he really believes in and again IMO the fans know this and have followed suit. He's stuck with Spezza, you can't bench him, you can't scratch him, you can't do anything except surround him with players that will help his game and that's what MacLean does. The rest is on Murray to correct this problem, not MacLean.

MacLean has made questionable decision thus far for sure, none other then the Lehner one where I really question wtf he's thinking though. Some work out, some don't. He has a responsibility to his team to put the best lineup possible on the ice but he also has no real choice with Spezza.

It is what it is and Murray has to make the right choice for the team that is being built. Won't happen today or tomorrow but starting the year next year with Spezza as the "C" will be an absolute sh*t show if they miss the playoffs this year.

Ev wrote:JG Pageau's girlfriend looks like a bimbo

she sure does. push-up bra galore

The Spezza thing will be resolved in its own time.  What more can we say?

Honestly I have no idea which is why it's so frustrating. There is just no way you can't look at the current Sens team and not come to the conclusion that Spezza's 5 on 5 play is the biggest reason for the teams struggles. You can maybe make the argument that having perhaps the youngest blueline in the NHL is a major issue but for the most part since late Nov them have been solid.

Michallica wrote:

Ev wrote:JG Pageau's girlfriend looks like a bimbo

she sure does. push-up bra galore

Law student.

NEELY wrote:Honestly I have no idea which is why it's so frustrating.  There is just no way you can't look at the current Sens team and not come to the conclusion that Spezza's 5 on 5 play is the biggest reason for the teams struggles.  You can maybe make the argument that having perhaps the youngest blueline in the NHL is a major issue but for the most part since late Nov them have been solid.

I wouldn't really say the team is struggling. It's annoying that we rely on one line + Zibanejad plus Spezza + Karlsson, but most teams have similar issues.

I said a long time ago that I'd start looking at moving Spezza, but until that time we need at least one winger, possibly two.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Honestly I have no idea which is why it's so frustrating.  There is just no way you can't look at the current Sens team and not come to the conclusion that Spezza's 5 on 5 play is the biggest reason for the teams struggles.  You can maybe make the argument that having perhaps the youngest blueline in the NHL is a major issue but for the most part since late Nov them have been solid.

I wouldn't really say the team is struggling.  It's annoying that we rely on one line + Zibanejad plus Spezza + Karlsson, but most teams have similar issues.  

I said a long time ago that I'd start looking at moving Spezza, but until that time we need at least one winger, possibly two.  

One line? That Smith line has been fantastic since being thrown together, scored in 2 straight games, and totally carried the offense on Saturday. That's a cop out. Smith has been a more productive player than Spezza all year 5 on 5 playing with wingers who don't really score a ton to begin with. That's a concerning circumstance as well.

There is no winger in the NHL that will help with Spezza... seriously if you go out and get a 30 goal scorer for Spezza it won't do any good if they are in their own zone well over 1/2 the time.

Thing is, Spezza has not only been playing with piss-poor linemates for 2/3 of the season so far, he's also played with just about every one:
Michalek, Greening, Stone, Zibanejad, Conacher, Condra, Stone, Ryan, MacArthur, Neil. Maybe others. On the PP he plays with better linemates and plays better. Not an anomaly, there.

The team's best point getter is Karlsson at 0.93 PPG. After that it's Spezza and MacArthur with 0.78 each, then Turris and Ryan at 0.76. Zibanejad, for all the praises we sing, is 0.47

Spezza has scored 24 of his 39 points at even strength. Turris, 30 of 42. That's not outrageously different. Recall that Turris has played the entire season with Ryan and most of it with MacArthur, while Spezza had to install a revolving door on his wings.

wprager wrote:Thing is, Spezza has not only been playing with piss-poor linemates for 2/3 of the season so far, he's also played with just about every one:
Michalek, Greening, Stone, Zibanejad, Conacher, Condra, Stone, Ryan, MacArthur, Neil.  Maybe others.  On the PP he plays with better linemates and plays better.  Not an anomaly, there.

The team's best point getter is Karlsson at 0.93 PPG.  After that it's Spezza and MacArthur with 0.78 each, then Turris and Ryan at 0.76.   Zibanejad, for all the praises we sing, is 0.47

Spezza has scored 24 of his 39 points at even strength.  Turris, 30 of 42.   That's not outrageously different.  Recall that Turris has played the entire season with Ryan and most of it with MacArthur, while Spezza had to install a revolving door on his wings.

Is this a serious comment?  He plays better when the other team one or more less players on the ice?  He plays better when he has time and space?  Not to be rude but the term "duh" is appropriate here. Like wtf, who says that?

So just to get this straight, the same linemates he had 2 seasons ago where he played his best hockey of his career are now garbage linemates?  

Is this somehow trying to justify his 5 on 5 play this season?  Smith has 10 ES goals, Spezza has 7.   Smith is literally 4 goals behind Spezza in that goal scoring race while getting pretty much ZERO PP time and being only -1 compared to -22.  

Spezza has been tried with everyone because there is literally only a couple of players he can play with at this point that doesn't kill the chemistry of everyone else.  Why the hell should they break up the Turris line?  So Spezza can look like he has a clue or a chance 5 on 5?  Best decision MacLean has made all year was making sure that top line stays in tact.

Michalek played his best hockey of the season without Spezza and with Zibenajd and Conacher.  Wonder why all the sudden his game improved?  Maybe it was because they actually had the puck in the offensive zone a little and weren't hemmed into their own zone for the majority of the shift.

People are really struggling to make excuses for Spezza now.  It's never him, it's everyone else right?   Like you actually said Spezza is a better player on the power play and said it was because of the other guys with him.  Are people even trying anymore to come up with new and improved excuses for Spezza?

God, I hate it when NEELY forces me into becoming a Spezza apologist, but I hate it when the discussion/argument is so one-sided that it loses all credibility.

One sided? If you can't look at the current Sens make up and look at how Spezza plays the game and the level he is currently playing and not come to the conclusion that he being the center piece and captain of the franchise then you seriously need to sit down and analyze what kind of team the Sens are actually building here.

Saying Spezza is a better player when the other team has a penalty because of the personnel on the ice is just so incredibly wrong I question why you even said it. There is no chance you believe it and you just want to take the opposite opinion.

So it's a one sided argument you feel the need to take the other side whether you agree with it or not? Ok, Brian Griffin.

NEELY, two years ago he played with Michalek who could skate. Until very recently (last 3-4 games) he has been playing with a different Michalek who could not skate. So, yeah, garbage. And he did not play with Conacher or Condra two years ago. You are talking about Greening. Quite a few people have either said it straight out or at least implied that Greening has been piss poor since he got his new contract (I believe you were one of those people, talking about Greening and another player in a post back in November).

NEELY wrote:One sided?  If you can't look at the current Sens make up and look at how Spezza plays the game and the level he is currently playing and not come to the conclusion that he being the center piece and captain of the franchise then you seriously need to sit down and analyze what kind of team the Sens are actually building here.

Saying Spezza is a better player when the other team has a penalty because of the personnel on the ice is just so incredibly wrong I question why you even said it.  There is no chance you believe it and you just want to take the opposite opinion.  

So it's a one sided argument you feel the need to take the other side whether you agree with it or not?  Ok, Brian Griffin.

Brian is dead, you insensitive clod!

Brian is not dead. They brought him back

If you want to play devils advocate go right ahead but please say something or provide something that has a little substance. Saying "well Spezza is a better player because he plays with Ryan, Turris, and MacArthur on the PP" while totally ignoring the circumstance surrounding what a power play actually is... well it's beyond grasping at straws.

How come Spezza was awful with both Ryan and MacArthur when given the chance and they were playing at what had to be close to their very best? There's a reason why those two are with Turris and there's a reason they have stayed together.

Come at me with some reasons or even statistics in this case of Spezza's play 5 on 5 where 75% or more of the game is played. Please provide anything which would indicate his play has been anything close to acceptable with any winger on the team.