Gonchar to Ottawa

i agree that i'd be relieved a bit if we got another D-man like sutton in the line-up with NHL experience. but only on a 1 year deal. ease in one of our young d-man durring the year and maybe trade Kuba at the dealine?

Flo The Action wrote:i agree that i'd be relieved a bit if we got another D-man like sutton in the line-up with NHL experience. but only on a 1 year deal. ease in one of our young d-man durring the year and maybe trade Kuba at the dealine?

I would suggest that we leave it alone for now and see where we're at by the deadline - basically because we don't know how Cowen or Gryba are gonna fair in training camp - and through the first couple of months, we'll need to evaluate where this team is, what the weaknesses are etc.

I'm more than convinced Cowen is here to stay, and when they (management) got Rundblad I think their mindset is that, Cowen is gonna play PK most of the time and gonna be paired with an offensive guy in the future (K, W or R) so they don't really need him to be an offensive juggernaut.
I think with his shot and the way he skates, he can still develop well in the big league. If the Sens play well as a group that is, which I think they will undoubtedly.

marakh wrote:I'm more than convinced Cowen is here to stay, and when they (management) got Rundblad I think their mindset is that, Cowen is gonna play PK most of the time and gonna be paired with an offensive guy in the future (K, W or R) so they don't really need him to be an offensive juggernaut.
I think with his shot and the way he skates, he can still develop well in the big league. If the Sens play well as a group that is, which I think they will undoubtedly.

I don't like that line of thinking. No matter what, Cowen will be more valuable to this organization if he can develop his offensive game. Think about an injury situation or even a potential trade scenario where they have to move one of the big-4 for help up-front. Shea Weber is worth more than Marc Staal.

I think the potential upside of keeping him in the WHL for one more year outweighs the upgrade he would potentially provide over Carkner or Campoli.

What about one more year of Gonchar mentoring, one rookie on the blue line every year (instead of 2 next year, may be even 3). Those have to be considered too.

What I'm saying is, I think there's enough offense in Cowen right now to make him develop not too badly on the Sens blueline. It may not reach the level of one more year in the WHL but it should not look bat at all. I don't mind a Brent Seabrook kind of production to be honest, which I'm pretty sure he's capable of, if the knee is 100%. No idea how the knee is doing though.

asq2 wrote:
I don't like that line of thinking. No matter what, Cowen will be more valuable to this organization if he can develop his offensive game. Think about an injury situation or even a potential trade scenario where they have to move one of the big-4 for help up-front. Shea Weber is worth more than Marc Staal.

I think the potential upside of keeping him in the WHL for one more year outweighs the upgrade he would potentially provide over Carkner or Campoli.

With CC at the helm? I would imagine he'll be told that he can use his offensive instincts to the max - plus, he's practicing with one of the best offensive D-men in recent history in Gonchar, and Kuba's no slouch either.

If he makes the team, he'll probably learn as much or more in practice than he does in-game, but that'll be a good thing. From there I can see it being more about confidence and less about him being brought along too quickly.

SpezDispenser wrote:With CC at the helm? I would imagine he'll be told that he can use his offensive instincts to the max - plus, he's practicing with one of the best offensive D-men in recent history in Gonchar, and Kuba's no slouch either.

If he makes the team, he'll probably learn as much or more in practice than he does in-game, but that'll be a good thing. From there I can see it being more about confidence and less about him being brought along too quickly.

Mine is an uneducated opinion, but I just don't get the sense that it's about getting the go-ahead signal from the coach that's holding Cowen back. Apologies for the repetitiveness of my posts, but IMHO he needs to be forced out of his comfort zone of always making the safe play. He needs to be in situations where he's relied upon offensively to grow that inner confidence in himself as a two-way defenceman.

He's not going to take more risks as a rookie in the NHL than as a WHL vet; he'll probably try to play it safe as can be. And he's not going to get significant powerplay minutes or be in a position where his offensive skills are really going to be needed. I just don't see how it's going to develop in Ottawa.

My opinion is that the mental part needs to come first and he can hone his skills in NHL practices later. But again, I'm just a fan.

asq2 wrote:
Mine is an uneducated opinion, but I just don't get the sense that it's about getting the go-ahead signal from the coach that's holding Cowen back. Apologies for the repetitiveness of my posts, but IMHO he needs to be forced out of his comfort zone of always making the safe play. He needs to be in situations where he's relied upon offensively to grow that inner confidence in himself as a two-way defenceman.

He's not going to take more risks as a rookie in the NHL than as a WHL vet; he'll probably try to play it safe as can be. And he's not going to get significant powerplay minutes or be in a position where his offensive skills are really going to be needed. I just don't see how it's going to develop in Ottawa.

My opinion is that the mental part needs to come first and he can hone his skills in NHL practices later. But again, I'm just a fan.

That's the other side of the coin, yeah. If he goes to Spokane - with Don Nutbar coaching - he'll get massive minutes and most likely will be pushed to be one of the offensive catalysts of the team. You know Murray though, when he gets a bee in his bonnet...

asq2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:With CC at the helm? I would imagine he'll be told that he can use his offensive instincts to the max - plus, he's practicing with one of the best offensive D-men in recent history in Gonchar, and Kuba's no slouch either.

If he makes the team, he'll probably learn as much or more in practice than he does in-game, but that'll be a good thing. From there I can see it being more about confidence and less about him being brought along too quickly.

Mine is an uneducated opinion, but I just don't get the sense that it's about getting the go-ahead signal from the coach that's holding Cowen back. Apologies for the repetitiveness of my posts, but IMHO he needs to be forced out of his comfort zone of always making the safe play. He needs to be in situations where he's relied upon offensively to grow that inner confidence in himself as a two-way defenceman.

He's not going to take more risks as a rookie in the NHL than as a WHL vet; he'll probably try to play it safe as can be. And he's not going to get significant powerplay minutes or be in a position where his offensive skills are really going to be needed. I just don't see how it's going to develop in Ottawa.

My opinion is that the mental part needs to come first and he can hone his skills in NHL practices later. But again, I'm just a fan.

i think you might be right. we ca do without cowen for another year. if we have to bring a young guy in maybe gryba should be that guy. open ice hitter/defencive d-man.

If Kuba and Karlsson do their jobs, I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't have a crease-clearer on the second pairing. I'd rather have those two than a guy who is incapable of doing anything but clear the crease.

The Lidstrom - Rafalski tandem does OK without dominating physically. It is possible, although Kuba - Karlsson is not at (or close to) that level.

Phillips - Gonchar
Kuba - Karlsson
Campoli - Carkner
*Lee

1st PP Unit:
Gonchar - Karlsson or Karlsson - Gonchar

2nd PP Unit:
Campoli - Kuba

1st PK Unit:
Phillips - Carkner

2nd PK Unit:
Kuba - Campoli/Gonchar, with Karlsson getting occasional PK time

Really the only area we suffer is on the PK, but I guess the idea is that if we have the puck more often we won't be frantically rushing around our zone taking penalties.

asq2 wrote:If Kuba and Karlsson do their jobs, I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't have a crease-clearer on the second pairing. I'd rather have those two than a guy who is incapable of doing anything but clear the crease.

The Lidstrom - Rafalski tandem does OK without dominating physically. It is possible, although Kuba - Karlsson is not at (or close to) that level.

Phillips - Gonchar
Kuba - Karlsson
Campoli - Carkner
*Lee

1st PP Unit:
Gonchar - Karlsson or Karlsson - Gonchar

2nd PP Unit:
Campoli - Kuba

1st PK Unit:
Phillips - Carkner

2nd PK Unit:
Kuba - Campoli/Gonchar, with Karlsson getting occasional PK time

Really the only area we suffer is on the PK, but I guess the idea is that if we have the puck more often we won't be frantically rushing around our zone taking penalties.

get rid of Lee for a pick and bring up gryba as a 7th D-man.

asq2 wrote:If Kuba and Karlsson do their jobs, I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't have a crease-clearer on the second pairing. I'd rather have those two than a guy who is incapable of doing anything but clear the crease.

The Lidstrom - Rafalski tandem does OK without dominating physically. It is possible, although Kuba - Karlsson is not at (or close to) that level.

Phillips - Gonchar
Kuba - Karlsson
Campoli - Carkner
*Lee

1st PP Unit:
Gonchar - Karlsson or Karlsson - Gonchar

2nd PP Unit:
Campoli - Kuba

1st PK Unit:
Phillips - Carkner

2nd PK Unit:
Kuba - Campoli/Gonchar, with Karlsson getting occasional PK time

Really the only area we suffer is on the PK, but I guess the idea is that if we have the puck more often we won't be frantically rushing around our zone taking penalties.

Pretty sure Gonchar regularly PK'ed with Orpik in PIT, although it would be nice to have a Pens fan confirm that.

Like a lot of stud offfensive D men, Gonchar is underrated defensively.

Yeah, 4.75% of Gonchar's total shifts from last year were played with Orpik on the PK.

Big Ev wrote:Yeah, 4.75% of Gonchar's total shifts from last year were played with Orpik on the PK.

Any numbers for Gonchar's total or average PK time for the year?

rooneypoo wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Yeah, 4.75% of Gonchar's total shifts from last year were played with Orpik on the PK.

Any numbers for Gonchar's total or average PK time for the year?

Second on the team with 2:54 per game on the PK, behind Jordan Staal at 3:20.

PKC wrote:
Second on the team with 2:54 per game on the PK, behind Jordan Staal at 3:20.

That's much higher than I thought. Much higher, wow. I thought he'd be hovering around 1:20.

12.01% of Gonchar's shifts from last year were PK shifts.

The guy he just replaced, Anton Volchenkov: 13.25% of his total shifts were on the PK.

SpezDispenser wrote:

PKC wrote:
Second on the team with 2:54 per game on the PK, behind Jordan Staal at 3:20.

That's much higher than I thought. Much higher, wow. I thought he'd be hovering around 1:20.

He also played 24:23 per game last season. Which was ~2:30 more than anyone else on the team. The season before he played 25:11. The season before that 25:54.

The guy's a thoroughbred. I suspect though, given Clouston's tendency to distribute playing time more evenly, his ice time will come down slightly.