Brian Elliott - Grade the Sens.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:
Im not going to say Leclaire doesnt have something to prove, he does. He has to stay healthy. Dont act like take a Mike Fisher snap shot with and without a mask is like tripping on a stair and messing up your ankle.

There is no reason to give up on Leclaire, none. Anyone who says cap space, well you better look at a few other guys if you bring that up, ie Spezza, Kovalev, Fisher, so on. All guys that are totally inconsistant and injury prone... oh, also all have more years and more money per year comitted to them then Leclaire.

Yeah, this is a big year for him. That's a big plus if he ends up staying. His attitude is good, his talent is...probably good enough - however very unproven.

I dont think you appriciate how much tallent Leclaire has. I agree that this is an absolutely huge year for him though and he has to stay healthy. You need a guy who can steal games with a young blueline because if mistake happen, they cant always end up in the back of the net.

He's proven in terms of what he can do, he has to stay healthy, that's the long and short of it. That playoff performance was huge in terms of showing what he can do under pressure. That alone is worth another shot.

N4L wrote:

I dont think you appriciate how much tallent Leclaire has. I agree that this is an absolutely huge year for him though and he has to stay healthy. You need a guy who can steal games with a young blueline because if mistake happen, they cant always end up in the back of the net.

He's proven in terms of what he can do, he has to stay healthy, that's the long and short of it. That playoff performance was huge in terms of showing what he can do under pressure. That alone is worth another shot.

Yeah, I'll confess right now to not knowing what he can bring. We haven't seen enough of him here and he's only had one good (half) year in the NHL. If we give him a shot - and we will, we have no choice - and he's awesome, I will be so happy, words won't describe it. I still refuse to get my hopes up though.

I do think it sucks for Elliott though, he'll undoubtedly be relegated to back-up...again, and I don't really think he deserves that, but hey, in the end, all I want is for this team's goalies to have a healthy competition going. I know Elliott's prepared for that, we'll see how Leclaire does. I also reiterate that I like Leclaire's attitude -and that can go a long way.

Im not saying or suggesting for anyone to get their hopes up, Im saying how stupid it is to give up an asset for basically nothing.

Im not even saying Leclaire stays healthy next year or doesnt crap the bed, but seeing what he has done and being as young as he is, soooo stupid to just dump him.

I'll use Spezza again as the example becuase they were drafted 6 spots apart. People say he is young and just getting it, hell, Leclaire has had less time in The NHL along with bad luck and bad teams. Use some common sense.

People think Lehner is going to come in here and tear it up, Im one of them, but he has proven nothing and shown nothing in the pro game yet. Im as high or higher on him then anyone and believe what I do about the guy, but the reality is he hasnt proven a thing. Leclaire has.

I don't see the comparison. Spezza, while having some issues, has still produced at the NHL level.

SpezDispenser wrote:I do think it sucks for Elliott though, he'll undoubtedly be relegated to back-up...again, and I don't really think he deserves that, but hey, in the end, all I want is for this team's goalies to have a healthy competition going. I know Elliott's prepared for that, we'll see how Leclaire does. I also reiterate that I like Leclaire's attitude -and that can go a long way.

Elliott is a young goalie and he still hasnt paid a ton of dues in the pro game. Leclaire worked his way from The AHL while Elliott was kind of just thrust into The NHL based on Ottawa's lack of goaltending depth. I have no problem with Elliott taking a seat again, he's been given a lot by The Sens.

He will get his games next year and his shot, but I dont feel bad for Elliott. He's in The NHL playing on a good team, in a Canadian market. Elliott had his chance to cement himself as the number 1 in the playoffs, he didnt. In the end he will be better for it no matter where he is and will battle back like he always does.

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't see the comparison. Spezza, while having some issues, has still produced at the NHL level.

So has Leclaire. Both are wildly inconsistant, both are as of no, very over paid, same age, both are sore or injured all the time... so many similarities. Only different is Spezza has had Heatley and Alfi proping him up for 4 or 5 years along with good to great teams behind them... Leclaire worked his way up from The AHL and played on awful teams.

Point is the same problems Spezza has people will find excuses for, but Leclaire gets ripped for those problems.

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't see the comparison. Spezza, while having some issues, has still produced at the NHL level.

So has Leclaire. Both are wildly inconsistant, both are as of no, very over paid, same age, both are sore or injured all the time... so many similarities. Only different is Spezza has had Heatley and Alfi proping him up for 4 or 5 years along with good to great teams behind them... Leclaire worked his way up from The AHL and played on awful teams.

Point is the same problems Spezza has people will find excuses for, but Leclaire gets ripped for those problems.

Spezza is as advertised. He's a playmaking center who will get you a PPG. Ottawa's been a mess for the last 3 years - last year we started turning it around. Our D can't transition the puck, the PP isn't clicking and yet through all of that, Spezza keeps clicking. You saw the turnaround when Karlsson came on board, Alfie, Spezza, Kovalev, everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Which is why I wasn't laughing when Campbell's name came up. We need more transition, puck movement. Heatley's numbers declined as badly as Spezza's, same with Alfie. There's a reason, the puck movers were gone, the system was diddled up (or lack of system).

Leclaire showed some promise that year in Columbus, but to say he's achieved anywhere near what Spezza has simply isn't true.

Mind you, you can keep thinking that if it makes you feel better.

I
still don't see where Leclaire's career has been better than Hasek's at
any point at all. The numbers don't lie for goalies.

Anyways,
I'm hoping as much as anyone that he works out, but 2 playoff games
when we had nothing to lose isn't telling me too much about him and his
career as a whole. Let's see if he can do it through a whole playoff
schedule and not just clean up duty.

Elliott's numbers are better than Leclaires through his junior and nhl career.

Another thing to consider is that goalies take a little longer to develop. Leclaire has played 159 games in 5 years or an average of 31 games per season. Leclaire needs to stay health and play more. If he stays healthy this season and gets to play through the challenges of a season he could be a lights out goalie.

Sub .900 except for 2 years.

Leclaire Regular Season 2.89 - 9.03 - 159 games
Elliott - Regular Season 2.62 - .907 - 87 games

Hasek 2.20 - .922 - 735 games Regular Season
2.02 - .928 - 119 Playoff games 14 shutouts.

Now that's a superstar goalie. I rest my case.

I know you don't like stats, but again, for goalies the numbers don't lie. If you have a great core of guys in front of you it will help. Leclaire didn't really have that and Elliott hasn't really had that either yet, so considering that, they're good with room to improve for sure. Elliott needs to get his Dung together in the playoffs, LEclaire outplayed him, but again, we were in a deep hole with nothing to lose when he came in.

I could be very biased too since Hasek is my all time favourite goalie ever and he's the reason I became such a huge Sens fan.

Those playoff numbers make me want to throw up. Is there anyone even near that? I'll have to research...

I found one already, Brodeur. Wow, his numbers are ridiculous in the playoffs too, too bad he's sucked the past 3-4 years...

181GP - 2.01 - .921 - 23 shutouts!!! That's with a very very very defensive team in front of him.

SensGirl11 wrote:Leclaire Regular Season 2.89 - 9.03 - 159 games
Elliott - Regular Season 2.62 - .907 - 87 games

Hasek 2.20 - .922 - 735 games Regular Season
2.02 - .928 - 119 Playoff games 14 shutouts.

Now that's a superstar goalie. I rest my case.

I know you don't like stats, but again, for goalies the numbers don't lie. If you have a great core of guys in front of you it will help. Leclaire didn't really have that and Elliott hasn't really had that either yet, so considering that, they're good with room to improve for sure. Elliott needs to get his Dung together in the playoffs, LEclaire outplayed him, but again, we were in a deep hole with nothing to lose when he came in.

He played on some awful teams too. Columbus isnt exactly the model franchise. Anyways, Im not saying Hasek isnt a better goaltender, Im saying Hasek at 39 wasnt.

SpezDispenser wrote:

N4L wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't see the comparison. Spezza, while having some issues, has still produced at the NHL level.

So has Leclaire. Both are wildly inconsistant, both are as of no, very over paid, same age, both are sore or injured all the time... so many similarities. Only different is Spezza has had Heatley and Alfi proping him up for 4 or 5 years along with good to great teams behind them... Leclaire worked his way up from The AHL and played on awful teams.

Point is the same problems Spezza has people will find excuses for, but Leclaire gets ripped for those problems.

Spezza is as advertised. He's a playmaking center who will get you a PPG. Ottawa's been a mess for the last 3 years - last year we started turning it around. Our D can't transition the puck, the PP isn't clicking and yet through all of that, Spezza keeps clicking. You saw the turnaround when Karlsson came on board, Alfie, Spezza, Kovalev, everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

Which is why I wasn't laughing when Campbell's name came up. We need more transition, puck movement. Heatley's numbers declined as badly as Spezza's, same with Alfie. There's a reason, the puck movers were gone, the system was diddled up (or lack of system).

Leclaire showed some promise that year in Columbus, but to say he's achieved anywhere near what Spezza has simply isn't true.

Obviously not and that's not the point I was trying to make. Im saying you cant use one arguement and reasoning for one player then toss it out the window for another.

Like I said, giving up an asset to The Sens for basically nothing is stupid and I would question Murray if he did so. His value wont be any less next year then it is right now. Leclaire has more tallent then about 90% of the goaltenders in The NHL he just hasnt put it together. He is still very raw and that wont change unless he stays healthy.

That's not the same as saying Leclaire is one of the best goaltenders in the game. He can be but no one knows if he will be.