Sens this season's 'Biggest Disappointment'

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/11578717

Hard to argue, IMO.

And if the Pens get bounced in 4 straight in the first round....?

shabbs wrote:And if the Pens get bounced in 4 straight in the first round....?

Wont happen, but they would have still played 4 more games than Ottawa with their two highest paid players, playing like it and putting the effort in every night.

Imagine if Crosby and Malkin has Spezza and Heatley's supporting cast? They would almost be a garentee to win the East again. Sens are easily the biggest disapointment in the league, not just this year, last year as well.

Its getting pathetic.

Easy, guys. Not too long ago the Pens had the league's top two point getters and were out of the playoffs. Their hole was nowhere near as deep as the Sens' was, but that would have been a disappointment. The Habs still aren't out of the woods and even if they squeak into the post-season they will be bounced swiftly.

And what's wrong with the Pens' "supporting cast" anyway? They've got this guy who was a 1st overall in goal, which doesn't hurt.

Daigle was a 1st overall too. FLurry is probably the most over rated goaltender in the league.

As soon as Crosby and Malkin got a little help up front, they have taken off. So that basically proves they had absoltuly no one besides themselves all year.

Neely4Life wrote:Daigle was a 1st overall too. FLurry is probably the most over rated goaltender in the league.

As soon as Crosby and Malkin got a little help up front, they have taken off. So that basically proves they had absoltuly no one besides themselves all year.

Sorry, I have to ask. Who's our supporting players? Alfie's amazing, but up until recently Foligno had been crappy and Shannon had been in the AHL. Fisher's good, but right now I'd say it's pretty close as to who's the better player between him and J.Staal. Who'm I kidding, Staal's a better player. He's got more skill, and pots way more points than Fisher, scores more goals. So...Chris Neil? Antoine Vermette?

And then, it's absolutely no coincidence that the Pens started to rock the world when Gonchar returned from injury. He's playing like a 5+ million dollar D-man.

So...is it that Fisher, Vermette, Kelly, Foligno etc. are absolutely and positively the worst supporting cast in the NHL making the big guns a much easier target to shut down? I would say so, the whole league knows it, guys on opposing teams have said it and coaches in Ottawa have tried everything to try to get anyone to score other than these guys.

What a difference Foligno starting put it together and Ryan Shannon coming up from Bingo made for us. Instead of the black hole of diddling hell, we could actually patch together two lines that could actually chip in once in a while...

Staal is not a better player than Fisher. Ill take Fisher a 100 times over.

The supporting players in Ottawa are/were a lot better at the begining of the year, it wasnt even close. The difference is their highest paid players are their best players, ours are not.

No one is expecting Heatley and Spezza to be 1, 2 in scoring, I dont even think people are expecting them to both be in the top 10, but not even leading the team in scoring, or either in the top 20 is absolutly unexceptable.

The only reason Ottawa even got back into the race somewhat is because of Fisher, Foligno, and Shannon. 2 of those guys have been hear all year and there wasnt anyone in Pitts close to those 2 up front until Geurin and Kunitz got there.
(MAYBE Staal)

We also have a better all around D than Pitts.

Pitts highest paid/most tallented players are their hardest working players and most productive. Our 2 highest paid players, not even close to the hardest working, neither lead the team in scoring, both are totally inconsistant, and both have not been anywhere near the best players on this team.

Kuba, Alfi, Elliott, Shannon (since he has been here) are the reason this team isnt dead last.

How many points did Foligno have before Clouston came along or Ryan Shannon for that matter? He had spurts, but I doubt he had more than 18 points. Fisher has flat out sucked offensively this year - horrendous. Might as well just keep him out of the equation. At least Staal has hit 20 goals and 40 points. Kelly's been horrendous offensively, there's no arguing that - he's picked up a little recently, but man...Neil, Ruutu, Winchester, Donovan. Up until Clouston, Vermette was just awful offensively.

So on a good day we had Foligno backing up the Big 3, maybe we had the odd goal by other players, but not often.

Gonchar is literally twice the D-man Kuba is at generating offence. And that's not a knock on Kuba, that's how good Gonchar is. Amazing how much of a difference he's made. When Crosby and Malkin had little to no help up front, they were in 11th place, when they made smart moves at the deadline and got some help, the team went red hot. Getting two 20 goal guys will do that.

I see striking similaities between the two teams - except that Crosby and Malkin are flat out better than Spezza and Heatley - and they certainly couldn't win with no supporting cast - like us.

I would definitely say Crosby and Geno had a better supporting cast than our Big three.
BUT, I will also say geno and SId are their hardest working players, and best players most of the time.
How many times have Spezza and HEatley been our best players this year? I would say 3 games each...

dennycrane wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/11578717

Hard to argue, IMO.

Hey Denny, thanks for posting this.

When I read it today, I was thinking this article would definitely arouse the ire of some Sens fans, and rub a few raw nerves.

To be fair, IMHO people should read what Goldstein has written. The points he makes, and the perspective he has, definitely don't sugar coat the situation.

But there is some truth to what he says. The expectations for the Senators were high, from the fans, the media, management, and arguably the players themselves.

I find the use of the word 'bust' rather supercilious, and unnecessarily provocative.

However, the questions he raises about Bryan Murray's decisions as GM are justified.

----

Bust of the year? There's not much debate, Senators

By Wes Goldstein
CBSSports.com Staff Writer
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/11578717

The NHL won't be handing out this kind of award in June, but the Ottawa Senators still deserve to be recognized for their achievement.

No need to congratulate them, although a little sympathy might be nice. After all, it's not easy being the NHL's biggest bust, the dubious title the Senators can now claim as their own.

The Montreal Canadiens might have a thing or two to say about that in a couple of weeks if they blow their playoff spot, and in the meantime, a plausible case can be made for the Dallas Stars because they will likely miss the postseason after going to the conference finals last spring. But remember, Dallas had the Sean Avery fiasco and more important, the extended absences of key players Brenden Morrow, Brad Richards, Sergei Zubov and Jere Lehtinen. So the Stars are entitled to some slack.

The Senators, meanwhile, have no such excuses, just the distinction of being the only team expected to be in the playoffs that has been mathematically eliminated by April Fools' Day.

No joke.

"Yeah, it's ironic timing that's for sure," grimaced veteran defenseman Chris Phillips after Ottawa reached its tragic number by losing in Florida on the last day of March. "Obviously our chances were pretty slim, but once it becomes reality, it really hits home. It's hard because this is a first for me."

Truth is this is a first for a lot of people in an organization that has been to the playoffs the past 11 seasons and has had visions of grandeur in all of them. The Senators were actually an elite team during that stretch, at least during regular seasons, with six 100-point finishes and four division titles, and by reaching the 2007 Stanley Cup Finals, seemed on the verge of taking the next step.
Instead, they've headed steadily south since then, often bordering on the dysfunctional internally over the last two seasons. Now the Senators have to content themselves with feigning optimism about the future.

"This is not something that snuck up on us because we've known the situation for a long time, but the good thing is we turned it around," captain Daniel Alfredsson said. "Our focus since Cory [Clouston] got here has been not just on the playoffs, but on turning things around, which I think we have."

That's debatable, although the Senators have gone 16-9-3 since Clouston was named interim coach in February and changed the tempo of their game enough for them to resemble last season's league-best offense far more than earlier in the season. But they were a long shot at best when Clouston took over, so all the surge has really done is leave the Senators in no-man's land in terms of this year's draft, out of the running for the lottery pick for potential franchise players John Taveres and Victor Hedman. Seems fitting in this kind of season doesn't it?

"It is what it is," Alfredsson said.

The bright side in all this is that general manager Bryan Murray may have finally gotten it right when it comes to a coach. Murray gave up the job to become general manager after the 2007 Finals, and since then has fired two of his hires in midseason, the latest being Craig Hartsburg, who lasted only 48 games and was the victim of some pointed criticism by his former boss this week.

"We talked a lot about the trap and defensive coverage, instead of letting the players play," Murray told USA Today. "That comes down to coaching. I talked to Hartsy about it often. No. 1, we didn't work hard enough in practice and that's the biggest area that a coach has to look after. The other part is making sure that your players understand what they are and what roles they have to play and allow them to do it. It's not a complicated business, but we make it complicated."

Of course, Murray has made things complicated since becoming the GM as well, enough to be ranked 26th of 30 by the Hockey News recently. He has tied up a significant part of his salary cap space in Alfredsson, Dany Heatley and Jason Spezza, and has been unwilling, or because of their contracts, unable to trade any of them to address other holes in the lineup.

Murray may have solved Ottawa's longstanding goaltending problems with his deadline acquisition of talented but injury prone Pascal Leclaire, but the Senators still need a top-six forward and a top-two defenseman. They'll have about $6 million left in cap room remaining for next season, but four pending free agents to deal with.

In the meantime, the Senators get a taste of how the other half has lived.

"Hopefully we can win some big games against teams that need points," Alfredsson said.

A dubious pleasure they can live with.

----

I read Goldstein's stuff fairly regularly, and I think he is generally perceptive, though he doesn't mince words when he makes a critical assessment.

What I found distressing, and of course one has take these quotes for what they are worth--why does Murray single out Hartsburg for criticism?

Hartsburg was the wrong coach, but he was Murray's highly touted choice. When he got canned, Hartsburg was very classy and refused to blame the players, taking the failure upon himself.

I also listened to Bryan Murray's press con today that was carried on Team 1200, and I was astonished by the softballs being lobbed his way by the journos.

Bryan Murray is a VERY clever hockey executive. And he knows how to protect his rear end.

But he's been in hockey long enough, and the Sens organization long enough, to know exactly what's going on. He's been involved in all of the decisions made when he was coach and as GM.

So the buck stops on his desk.

Giving him a free pass is, in my humble estimation, unnecessary and naive.

Sens fans deserve a contending team. They deserve a playoff team.

They were, before Bryan Murray took over as GM--and a Stanley Cup finalist at that.

But in his two years at the helm, Bryan Murray has failed to give them any of the above.

As an Ottawa native, I want playoff hockey here. And I want the home team to be successful.

Any way I try to look at it, Bryan Murray has let us, as fans of NHL hockey in this great city, down. Big time.

The Senators under Murray a 'bust'? Hard to disagree with that.

For sure Dave. And Goldstein isn't wrong, this is one of the - if not the - biggest busts of the year.

In Murray's defence, I doubt he though Mike Fisher and Antoine Vermette would suck offensively as they did. Same with Kelly to a much lesser extent. Winchester was a wild card, he turned into a defence first player, but no offence.

Kuba was a good addition, Campoli was waaaaay too late, but pretty good. Lee has been so much less than everyone thought he was going to be based on last year's stint.

It's been a tremendous year of disappointment for sure. Murray's directly responsible for Hartsburg, for not firing him sooner, for hanging onto Vermette for too long, for not re-signing Stillman, for not acquiring a number one/puckmover when it was dumped in his lap, for not addressing goaltending in the summer when we all knew we needed a number one.

I blame Murray for a lot of this, but a fair share of it lays at the feet of Fisher and Vermette. They're good guys, good team players, but they cannot perform consistently. Murray rolled the dice on both and was at least able to trade Vermette - now what the heck to do with a 4.2 million dollar checker?

Murray also has at the very least made our future better. E.Karlsson, Z.Smith, Wiercioch, Petersson, Grant, Caporusso and O'Brien are all very solid picks - and the hope is that they can make the NHL and turn the team back into the right direction.

What he does about the secondary scoring will be very interesting. There's no question that this team is still a talented top 6 away from having 2 1/2 legitimate scoring lines. At the same time, the team needs to investigate acquiring a number one D through trade or free agency. Not to mention the draft position we have, so this summer will show what Murray's got left as a GM IMO.

Plus...Murray might say that he's not interested in trading one of the big contracts, but I guarantee he listens and mulls over every offer made from now to the draft.

504H...well said.

I would say the 2 most inconsistant players this year and last were def Heatley and Spezza. Honestly, how many nights or games this year can you say "Heatley or Spezza were this teams best player" I can think of maybe 5 combined, even then its a stretch.

Fisher has played hard every night, and his effort is 100% consistant which IMO is more important than constantly putting up the points, because at the end of the day if everyone is puttin in the effort consistantly then the production from everyone will come.

This team is a direct reflection of Heatley and Spezza. They get paid to get this team into the playoffs and make them a contender, thats why they both make 7 million a year. You can say they need help, sure, maybe they do, but those 2 should be good enough on their own to get the Sens into the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conferance.

It took a rookie goaltender and a rookie coach to make the Sens 2nd 1/2 of the season somewhat respectable. The addition of Shannon also made things a little easier on the team.

EDIT: You need a hard working team before you have a winning team, and right now, even with Clouston, its not there from everyone, every night. Spezza's been better but still totally inconsistant and Healtey is invisable most nights.

Neely4Life wrote:I would say the 2 most inconsistant players this year and last were def Heatley and Spezza. Honestly, how many nights or games this year can you say "Heatley or Spezza were this teams best player" I can think of maybe 5 combined, even then its a stretch.

Fisher has played hard every night, and his effort is 100% consistant which IMO is more important than constantly putting up the points, because at the end of the day if everyone is puttin in the effort consistantly then the production from everyone will come.

This team is a direct reflection of Heatley and Spezza. They get paid to get this team into the playoffs and make them a contender, thats why they both make 7 million a year. You can say they need help, sure, maybe they do, but those 2 should be good enough on their own to get the Sens into the playoffs in a weak Eastern Conferance.

It took a rookie goaltender and a rookie coach to make the Sens 2nd 1/2 of the season somewhat respectable. The addition of Shannon also made things a little easier on the team.

I can't get too pissed at Fisher because he works so hard, hits so hard and plays the game the way it should be played. But...I do think that he's one of the reasons we failed this year. All the secondary guys actually. If they had been playing to a 50 point pace, it would have taken away some of the pressure that the top line feels.

But...it's been an abysmal season and I do actually see signs of Heatley checking out. Spezza's still around, but the last game was a forgettable one. Alfie's always on since healing himself.

There's a big part of me that just wants it to happen, like a band-aid. Trade Heatley, open the door to this team getting bigger, more aggressive and way harder to play against. And if you can't...then weigh offers for Spezza. BUT, I remain pretty firm in my belief that this team will be very, very competitive when/if Wiercioch, Karlsson et. can make an impact - and if Spezza or Heatley are gone, we might end up regretting it and scrambling to try to replace them.

Still...the draft can't come quickly enough for me. Let's do it, or let's not. I'm fairly prepared either way. Little and their first still sounds pretty good - if it was ever on the table. But again...it can't come soon enough so we can see some real progress one way or the other.

It will take more than 3 or 4 years for two young D men to hit their stride, and even by then Heatley and Spezza may very well be gone or have a year left in their contract.

If you're counting on 2 young D men to build around, then you rebuild the front end as well in terms of skill and keep the hard workers and grinders.

WHo will replace the points? Does it matter? We missed the playoffs and might as well of last year. At the end of the day we are watching the Habs and Bruins in April and May, not the Sens. If people just want big names who put up big numbers, thats fine, but dont expect those guys to win anything here in Ottawa together.