Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

It would not be better than Hoffman for at least two years, but it's a cheap asset with the potential to be better than Hoffman with many more years of control. As a Sens fan I would not trade out pick for a player like Hoffman. Has to be way better than that for me to move it. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick on Mike Hoffman when I can get a guy like Vanek every year for a 4th.

Your opinion. And I certainly value it. But these are two trigger happy GMs that need to appease their respective fan bases. Not sure signing Tomas Vanek invokes any confidence in Oilers fans. But trading a pick (EDM has an awful track record for picks in recent history) for someone that can produce with McDavid sends a much stronger message of hope.

Chiarelli mentioned that the Oilers are a few pieces away from making the playoffs. A first rd pick doesn't help them right now, and they're in a win-now mentality

Also remember that Chiarelli needs top-six help and over the last two years traded Yakupov, Hall, and Eberle for practically nothing.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

It would not be better than Hoffman for at least two years, but it's a cheap asset with the potential to be better than Hoffman with many more years of control. As a Sens fan I would not trade out pick for a player like Hoffman. Has to be way better than that for me to move it. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick on Mike Hoffman when I can get a guy like Vanek every year for a 4th.

Your opinion. And I certainly value it. But these are two trigger happy GMs that need to appease their respective fan bases. Not sure signing Tomas Vanek invokes any confidence in Oilers fans. But trading a pick (EDM has an awful track record for picks in recent history) for someone that can produce with McDavid sends a much stronger message of hope.

McDavid can make any player produce though. There's a reason nobody is ever trying to find a linemate for Crosby.

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

It would not be better than Hoffman for at least two years, but it's a cheap asset with the potential to be better than Hoffman with many more years of control. As a Sens fan I would not trade out pick for a player like Hoffman. Has to be way better than that for me to move it. I wouldn't spend a Top 10 pick on Mike Hoffman when I can get a guy like Vanek every year for a 4th.

Your opinion. And I certainly value it. But these are two trigger happy GMs that need to appease their respective fan bases. Not sure signing Tomas Vanek invokes any confidence in Oilers fans. But trading a pick (EDM has an awful track record for picks in recent history) for someone that can produce with McDavid sends a much stronger message of hope.

McDavid can make any player produce though. There's a reason nobody is ever trying to find a linemate for Crosby.

Kunitz was Crosby's guy for a long time. James Neal was there. Malkin played with Crosby on many occasions. Crosby carried Kunitz to Team Canada. But Crosby is a different player than McDavid. Crosby also has Malkin (and had Stall and Sutter) which makes matchups harder while McDavid sees the other team's top lines with little support behind him, especially this year.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

The reality is you can't improve a team by putting the same product on the ice. Ex: re-signing Karlsson is all fine and well as long as you improve what's around him. If you re-sign him and continue to pair him with Boro or continue to deploy Ceci as your shutdown d-man, you will not win games. Something has to change in order for this team to win. Changes won't happen in nets, the bottom d-pairing only plays 12-15 mins a game, and Ottawa's depth scoring may take time to improve. I wouldn't waste a penny bringing anyone in with all the guys coming up through the system.

I think the organization needs to take some risks and sell some players while their value is high. We missed out on Cowen, Lazar, Wiercioch, etc. We sold these guys for nothing. Hoffman to me is expendable. As many have stated here, he's never scored more than 30 goals. He's on a cap friendly contract for now. I'm not sure why everyone is so high on him. Dzingel had more goals than him and wasn't playing PP1. Brassard had 4 fewer goals than Hoffman this season in 58 games, and Duchene outscored him in 14 less games. People have to stop classifying Hoffman as a god send. I think he's great and losing him would be a loss to Ottawa's scoring for sure, but he's expendable to me if it means getting Karlsson a good D partner or adding a top 10 pick.

Tough decisions need to be made. I'd have preferred keeping Brass over Hoffman to be honest. Parlay Smith, Ceci, and Hoffman into futures and/or a partner for Karlsson. If it means adding Pitt's 1st rd pick (Ceci, Hoffman, Pitt 1st for Klefbom and Edm 1st) you 100% do it. Take Bouchard, Boqvist, Hughes or whoever you can. Sometimes you need to add by taking a step backwards. Einstein said doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity. The franchise needs to take some risks if they're going to improve they have to start somewhere.  

You’re asking for too many moves and there’s no freaking way we trade Ceci for a LHD. Even if we were to keep by some miracle kalrsson.
There’s no way Jaros is ready for the top 4 let alone a steady bottom pairing role.

We have no one that’s can replace Hoffman. No one.

IMO the suggestions you are making are gonna land us (and in extention Colorado) with the biggest lottery odds next year.

I also think that the team can improve if you put the same product on the ice. But I do simply want minor changes.

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

The reality is you can't improve a team by putting the same product on the ice. Ex: re-signing Karlsson is all fine and well as long as you improve what's around him. If you re-sign him and continue to pair him with Boro or continue to deploy Ceci as your shutdown d-man, you will not win games. Something has to change in order for this team to win. Changes won't happen in nets, the bottom d-pairing only plays 12-15 mins a game, and Ottawa's depth scoring may take time to improve. I wouldn't waste a penny bringing anyone in with all the guys coming up through the system.

I think the organization needs to take some risks and sell some players while their value is high. We missed out on Cowen, Lazar, Wiercioch, etc. We sold these guys for nothing. Hoffman to me is expendable. As many have stated here, he's never scored more than 30 goals. He's on a cap friendly contract for now. I'm not sure why everyone is so high on him. Dzingel had more goals than him and wasn't playing PP1. Brassard had 4 fewer goals than Hoffman this season in 58 games, and Duchene outscored him in 14 less games. People have to stop classifying Hoffman as a god send. I think he's great and losing him would be a loss to Ottawa's scoring for sure, but he's expendable to me if it means getting Karlsson a good D partner or adding a top 10 pick.

Tough decisions need to be made. I'd have preferred keeping Brass over Hoffman to be honest. Parlay Smith, Ceci, and Hoffman into futures and/or a partner for Karlsson. If it means adding Pitt's 1st rd pick (Ceci, Hoffman, Pitt 1st for Klefbom and Edm 1st) you 100% do it. Take Bouchard, Boqvist, Hughes or whoever you can. Sometimes you need to add by taking a step backwards. Einstein said doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity. The franchise needs to take some risks if they're going to improve they have to start somewhere.  

You’re asking for too many moves and there’s no freaking way we trade Ceci for a LHD. Even if we were to keep by some miracle kalrsson.
There’s no way Jaros is ready for the top 4 let alone a steady bottom pairing role.

We have no one that’s can replace Hoffman. No one.

IMO the suggestions you are making are gonna land us (and in extention Colorado) with the biggest lottery odds next year.

Again, stop worrying about replacing Hoffman so much. His goals will come from somewhere else. We had virtually no bottom-six scoring. I expect Chlapik, White and whoever else plus a healthy Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan, and hopefully a resurged Pageau to more than make up for Hoffman's production. Oh ya, we might be getting Zadina or Svech in the top six also! Hoffman is a PP specialist on one of the worst powerplays in the league, and one of the leading scorers on one of the poorest defensive teams in the league. Note I said one of the leading scorers, not leading scorer. There was a reason he was playing on the third line for a lot of this past year. I may not agree with Boucher all of the time but there is usually some logic behind his decisions.

I proposed three players move. Smith who was atrocious this season but luckily has a decent cap hit, Ceci who is not a top-four d-man but is too good to be a bottom pairing d-man with RFA status, and Hoffman who is a one-dimensional player and will be looking for a big raise in two years.

Being bad next year is a risk the franchise needs to take. Who cares about what pick Colorado gets. The pick is gone whether we finish high or low. "Winning" the Duchene trade shouldn't be the priority for next year. The priority should be about player development and getting back into the playoffs. That can only be accomplished by putting some younger, inexperienced players on the ice allowing them a chance to develop, and giving our 30 min/game defenseman someone to play with. How anyone thinks Ottawa can get back into the playoffs without making major changes to the lineup escapes me. I'm not even proposing anything major. I'm suggesting trading a fringe top-four d-man who still has some value, and overrated goal scorer, and a role-less top nine forward to open up roster spots, clear out some cash (for Karlsson, Duchene, and Stone) and address some gaps in the lineup. It won't be pretty next year no matter how you look at it but at least put the kids in and see how they do.

Formenton, Brown, Wolanin, Englund, Jaros, Batherson, Ahl, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Luchuk, Parker, Perron, Gagne, Pokka, Sturtz, Lajoie are all prospects with decent NHL aspirations soon. I expect Gagne, Formenton, Wolanin, and Brown to push for spots next season with Gagne making the team out of camp. Guy has an amazing shot (very similar to Hoffman's)

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

wprager wrote:Edmonton picked Yakupov 1st overall.  And you are sure their 1RP is better than Hoffman?

The reality is you can't improve a team by putting the same product on the ice. Ex: re-signing Karlsson is all fine and well as long as you improve what's around him. If you re-sign him and continue to pair him with Boro or continue to deploy Ceci as your shutdown d-man, you will not win games. Something has to change in order for this team to win. Changes won't happen in nets, the bottom d-pairing only plays 12-15 mins a game, and Ottawa's depth scoring may take time to improve. I wouldn't waste a penny bringing anyone in with all the guys coming up through the system.

I think the organization needs to take some risks and sell some players while their value is high. We missed out on Cowen, Lazar, Wiercioch, etc. We sold these guys for nothing. Hoffman to me is expendable. As many have stated here, he's never scored more than 30 goals. He's on a cap friendly contract for now. I'm not sure why everyone is so high on him. Dzingel had more goals than him and wasn't playing PP1. Brassard had 4 fewer goals than Hoffman this season in 58 games, and Duchene outscored him in 14 less games. People have to stop classifying Hoffman as a god send. I think he's great and losing him would be a loss to Ottawa's scoring for sure, but he's expendable to me if it means getting Karlsson a good D partner or adding a top 10 pick.

Tough decisions need to be made. I'd have preferred keeping Brass over Hoffman to be honest. Parlay Smith, Ceci, and Hoffman into futures and/or a partner for Karlsson. If it means adding Pitt's 1st rd pick (Ceci, Hoffman, Pitt 1st for Klefbom and Edm 1st) you 100% do it. Take Bouchard, Boqvist, Hughes or whoever you can. Sometimes you need to add by taking a step backwards. Einstein said doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity. The franchise needs to take some risks if they're going to improve they have to start somewhere.  

You’re asking for too many moves and there’s no freaking way we trade Ceci for a LHD. Even if we were to keep by some miracle kalrsson.
There’s no way Jaros is ready for the top 4 let alone a steady bottom pairing role.

We have no one that’s can replace Hoffman. No one.

IMO the suggestions you are making are gonna land us (and in extention Colorado) with the biggest lottery odds next year.

Again, stop worrying about replacing Hoffman so much. His goals will come from somewhere else. We had virtually no bottom-six scoring. I expect Chlapik, White and whoever else plus a healthy Mark Stone and Bobby Ryan, and hopefully a resurged Pageau to more than make up for Hoffman's production. Oh ya, we might be getting Zadina or Svech in the top six also! Hoffman is a PP specialist on one of the worst powerplays in the league, and one of the leading scorers on one of the poorest defensive teams in the league. Note I said one of the leading scorers, not leading scorer. There was a reason he was playing on the third line for a lot of this past year. I may not agree with Boucher all of the time but there is usually some logic behind his decisions.

I proposed three players move. Smith who was atrocious this season but luckily has a decent cap hit, Ceci who is not a top-four d-man but is too good to be a bottom pairing d-man with RFA status, and Hoffman who is a one-dimensional player and will be looking for a big raise in two years.

Being bad next year is a risk the franchise needs to take. Who cares about what pick Colorado gets. The pick is gone whether we finish high or low. "Winning" the Duchene trade shouldn't be the priority for next year. The priority should be about player development and getting back into the playoffs. That can only be accomplished by putting some younger, inexperienced players on the ice allowing them a chance to develop, and giving our 30 min/game defenseman someone to play with. How anyone thinks Ottawa can get back into the playoffs without making major changes to the lineup escapes me. I'm not even proposing anything major. I'm suggesting trading a fringe top-four d-man who still has some value, and overrated goal scorer, and a role-less top nine forward to open up roster spots, clear out some cash (for Karlsson, Duchene, and Stone) and address some gaps in the lineup. It won't be pretty next year no matter how you look at it but at least put the kids in and see how they do.

Formenton, Brown, Wolanin, Englund, Jaros, Batherson, Ahl, Gustavsson, Hogberg, Luchuk, Parker, Perron, Gagne, Pokka, Sturtz, Lajoie are all prospects with decent NHL aspirations soon. I expect Gagne, Formenton, Wolanin, and Brown to push for spots next season with Gagne making the team out of camp. Guy has an amazing shot (very similar to Hoffman's)

Gagne has a good shot but I don't see how he's close to making the NHL. Dude had 5 assists all year to go along with 20 goals. His numbers are not close to being "close to NHL" numbers.

He had 2 goals the year before. To go from 2 to 20 is a big jump. He also only played 68 games. He's 6'5", 186 lbs which is good size for the NHL - especially in a third line role. 10g 10a in Ottawa would put him just under Pyatt and ahead of Smith.

Quick math but I think only Paul, Chlapik and Sexton had 0.5+ ppg. Pokka almost 0.5. Nobody in Belleville put up NHL numbers last season. I'd like to see Paul be given a shot. At this point, why the hell not.

Gagne put up similar numbers to White, who I don't think put up good AHL numbers either. Neither did Chlapik but the two of them are pencilled into Ottawa's lineup next year. So why shouldn't Gagne be considered?

Those planning on adding Hoffman on in a trade should keep in mind that Duchene wasn't doing very well for quite a while after the trade. He developed some very strong chemistry with Hoffman and finished as our best player.

Yes, Dzingel scored more goals, but Hoffman got more assists (and points); some of those assists were on Dzingel's goals. Given how piss poor our PP was maybe being on the 1st unit is not as big an advantage as you think. And don't forget that, when he was not on the PP he spent a lot of time with 4th liners.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:He had 2 goals the year before. To go from 2 to 20 is a big jump. He also only played 68 games. He's 6'5", 186 lbs which is good size for the NHL - especially in a third line role. 10g 10a in Ottawa would put him just under Pyatt and ahead of Smith.  

Quick math but I think only Paul, Chlapik and Sexton had 0.5+ ppg. Pokka almost 0.5. Nobody in Belleville put up NHL numbers last season. I'd like to see Paul be given a shot. At this point, why the hell not.

Gagne put up similar numbers to White, who I don't think put up good AHL numbers either. Neither did Chlapik but the two of them are pencilled into Ottawa's lineup next year. So why shouldn't Gagne be considered?

Their production was significantly better than Gagne's and they are both far better prospects. I don't see any scenario where Gagne starts the year in Ottawa, and I don't see him being on the team at all next year unless he significantly improves in production. He's still a huge work in project and isn't even used on top lines in the AHL. He needs to do that first.

wprager wrote:Those planning on adding Hoffman on in a trade should keep in mind that Duchene wasn't doing very well for quite a while after the trade.  He developed some very strong chemistry with Hoffman and finished as our best player.  

Yes, Dzingel scored more goals, but Hoffman got more assists (and points); some of those assists were on Dzingel's goals.  Given how piss poor our PP was maybe being on the 1st unit is not as big an advantage as you think. And don't forget that, when he was not on the PP he spent a lot of time with 4th liners.

Duchene was the reason Hoffman did well with Duchene. Duchene can make any player around him better.

Hoffman is a good player but significantly overrated by fans and his goal totals are always extremely fabricated and exagerrated

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:He had 2 goals the year before. To go from 2 to 20 is a big jump. He also only played 68 games. He's 6'5", 186 lbs which is good size for the NHL - especially in a third line role. 10g 10a in Ottawa would put him just under Pyatt and ahead of Smith.  

Quick math but I think only Paul, Chlapik and Sexton had 0.5+ ppg. Pokka almost 0.5. Nobody in Belleville put up NHL numbers last season. I'd like to see Paul be given a shot. At this point, why the hell not.

Gagne put up similar numbers to White, who I don't think put up good AHL numbers either. Neither did Chlapik but the two of them are pencilled into Ottawa's lineup next year. So why shouldn't Gagne be considered?

Their production was significantly better than Gagne's and they are both far better prospects. I don't see any scenario where Gagne starts the year in Ottawa, and I don't see him being on the team at all next year unless he significantly improves in production. He's still a huge work in project and isn't even used on top lines in the AHL. He needs to do that first.

Numbers were similar. Maybe Chlapik produced more. I heard and followed Belleville twitter. He was very productive but missed the net and missed scoring opportunities quite often. White I am still not sure. Granted he was adjusting to the pro game, but scoring 20 goals in the AHL is not easy to do.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Those planning on adding Hoffman on in a trade should keep in mind that Duchene wasn't doing very well for quite a while after the trade.  He developed some very strong chemistry with Hoffman and finished as our best player.  

Yes, Dzingel scored more goals, but Hoffman got more assists (and points); some of those assists were on Dzingel's goals.  Given how piss poor our PP was maybe being on the 1st unit is not as big an advantage as you think. And don't forget that, when he was not on the PP he spent a lot of time with 4th liners.

Duchene was the reason Hoffman did well with Duchene. Duchene can make any player around him better.

Hoffman is a good player but significantly overrated by fans and his goal totals are always extremely fabricated and exagerrated

Agreed 100%. This is the point I am making. He's good, but he's overrated.

How many of his points were in OT when he had a ton of ice with the best defenceman in the NHL and our best forward?

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:He had 2 goals the year before. To go from 2 to 20 is a big jump. He also only played 68 games. He's 6'5", 186 lbs which is good size for the NHL - especially in a third line role. 10g 10a in Ottawa would put him just under Pyatt and ahead of Smith.  

Quick math but I think only Paul, Chlapik and Sexton had 0.5+ ppg. Pokka almost 0.5. Nobody in Belleville put up NHL numbers last season. I'd like to see Paul be given a shot. At this point, why the hell not.

Gagne put up similar numbers to White, who I don't think put up good AHL numbers either. Neither did Chlapik but the two of them are pencilled into Ottawa's lineup next year. So why shouldn't Gagne be considered?

Their production was significantly better than Gagne's and they are both far better prospects. I don't see any scenario where Gagne starts the year in Ottawa, and I don't see him being on the team at all next year unless he significantly improves in production. He's still a huge work in project and isn't even used on top lines in the AHL. He needs to do that first.

Numbers were similar. Maybe Chlapik produced more. I heard and followed Belleville twitter. He was very productive but missed the net and missed scoring opportunities quite often. White I am still not sure. Granted he was adjusting to the pro game, but scoring 20 goals in the AHL is not easy to do.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:Those planning on adding Hoffman on in a trade should keep in mind that Duchene wasn't doing very well for quite a while after the trade.  He developed some very strong chemistry with Hoffman and finished as our best player.  

Yes, Dzingel scored more goals, but Hoffman got more assists (and points); some of those assists were on Dzingel's goals.  Given how piss poor our PP was maybe being on the 1st unit is not as big an advantage as you think. And don't forget that, when he was not on the PP he spent a lot of time with 4th liners.

Duchene was the reason Hoffman did well with Duchene. Duchene can make any player around him better.

Hoffman is a good player but significantly overrated by fans and his goal totals are always extremely fabricated and exagerrated

Agreed 100%. This is the point I am making. He's good, but he's overrated.

How many of his points were in OT when he had a ton of ice with the best defenceman in the NHL and our best forward?  

Their numbers weren't similar. The only thing Gagne had on them was goals. When you're scoring a ton more goals than assists, that's not sustainable.

White (who had a broken wrist to start the year): 47GP, 11G, 16A, 27P (0.57 PPG)

Gagne: 68GP, 20G, 5A, 25P (0.37 PPG)

Chlapik: 52GP, 11G, 21A, 32P (0.61 PPG)

Gagne was 8th on the BSens in scoring.

I think he has promise, but he's clearly a long way away. He needs to have a big year in order to have any chance of being an NHLer

Ev wrote: his goal totals are always extremely fabricated and exagerrated

I get your point, but this made me heartily.

fabricated no, exaggerated yes? haha

I understand the comment too.

Haha yeah I'm glad you understood. I see people saying he's a perennial 30 goal scorer...