Off Season Rumours

tim1_2 wrote:We basically have to decide this summer if we want Hoffy here long term or not. Me, I'd trade him, but I certainly see why Dorion would be reluctant to do so.

It all depends on the return. I'm not a huge fan of Hoffman, but he can be a game changer with his speed and shot. Couple that with the coach he's familiar with and like and he could easily improve on last season's numbers.

I also am quite nervous about trading one of our only sniper forwards. Can we do it by committee? Depends on exactly who's brought in to replace Hoffman if he goes. Are we bringing in a cheap third liner hoping he'll be able to produce 20ish goals, or are we bringing it a legitimate top line forward? If it's option B and it's Eriksson + third liner, then I'd be okay moving Hoffman, if it's not then we're really not making ourselves better.

I maintain that he can't have a NTC, at least not a full one, so if we want to move him in a couple of years, it really shouldn't be difficult. Sign him, 5 years, 4.75 per year, 23.75 million decently spend with an option to trade down the road if need be.

I wish General Fanager would let us see the 16/17 cap hits for teams instead of defaulting to 15/16, unless I'm missing a filter on it.

Teams that appear in deep Dung:

Tampa Bay, Columbus, LA, perhaps St.Louis, always Chicago, always the Rangers (with Diddle all to show), Montreal's not looking great either.

Look to snag a solid forward off one of these guys, because we all know no one's taking Dustin Brown, David lol Clarkson etc. They'll have to dump cap at some point and someone's gonna panic.

I don't think Tampa will be in too much trouble if Stamkos leaves. But yeah, we've heard for years about how our "cap space" is such a "great asset"...so it'd be cool to eventually cash in on that.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:He's worried that Hoffman's another spezza, in that, a guy you don't go to war with in the playoffs and spend a big dollar amount on to sign.  I can see that, but there's a lot of pros too

You need both the Kanes and the Toewses.

Kane's a cup goal winning winger, I don't see any similarities,  although I know what you're saying.

Hoffman is one dimensional. He scores goals. Which is a great dimension to have. But for us to pay him big money he needs to show that he's more than that. Ryan on the other hand isn't a complete player or as good a goal scorer (right now) but he brings lot more to the table which somewhat justifies his money.

The Sens have to assess if Hoffman can do and be more.

Then educate me as to what Ryan brings (based on his three years here) that Hoffman does not.

Let me add that I really like Ryan. He has size and sometimes uses it, he's got very good skill, he really hustles out there and I've seen him break up plays on the back-check. All that said, his conditioning level appears to be preventing him from reaching what we all thought his potential was, which is a 30-35 goal man (60-70 points), first line winger, 1st unit PP, leader on the ice and in the dressing room, defensively responsible.

While it's true that Hoffman sometimes appears to not be sure which guy he is supposed to cover in the defensive zone, I don't think he coasts, I don't think he is unwilling to play defense. He has better speed and agility than Ryan (by a wide margin), a better shot. The one thing against him (relative to Ryan) is size and willingness to get to the dirty areas. That said, as long as he scores 30 goals, do I really care if he's scoring them from the lip of the crease or from the boards or blue line?

wprager wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:He's worried that Hoffman's another spezza, in that, a guy you don't go to war with in the playoffs and spend a big dollar amount on to sign.  I can see that, but there's a lot of pros too

You need both the Kanes and the Toewses.

Kane's a cup goal winning winger, I don't see any similarities,  although I know what you're saying.

Hoffman is one dimensional. He scores goals. Which is a great dimension to have. But for us to pay him big money he needs to show that he's more than that. Ryan on the other hand isn't a complete player or as good a goal scorer (right now) but he brings lot more to the table which somewhat justifies his money.

The Sens have to assess if Hoffman can do and be more.

Then educate me as to what Ryan brings (based on his three years here) that Hoffman does not.

Let me add that I really like Ryan.  He has size and sometimes uses it, he's got very good skill, he really hustles out there and I've seen him break up plays on the back-check.  All that said, his conditioning level appears to be preventing him from reaching what we all thought his potential was, which is a 30-35 goal man (60-70 points), first line winger, 1st unit PP, leader on the ice and in the dressing room, defensively responsible.

While it's true that Hoffman sometimes appears to not be sure which guy he is supposed to cover in the defensive zone, I don't think he coasts, I don't think he is unwilling to play defense.  He has better speed and agility than Ryan (by a wide margin), a better shot.  The one thing against him (relative to Ryan) is size and willingness to get to the dirty areas.  That said, as long as he scores 30 goals, do I really care if he's scoring them from the lip of the crease or from the boards or blue line?

Ryan's conditioning is fine and overblown. he's dealt with injuries every year in Ottawa. Ryan has physicality, puck possession along the boards, and willingness to go to the dirty areas. Hoffman has none of those. Hoffman plays the game like he's playing shinny. He doesn't follow a structure and just does what he wants.

Ryan's heart just isn't in it. Burke was right. The guy has no intensity. Hockey is his job.

Heart doesn't measure hustle.

The dude can't skate very well. That's one of the problems. I think Stone is a better skater that he is at this point. Bobby needs to work much harder in the off-seasons, and for 7.25 million dollars, I don't see why that's an issue.

Or if he's already working hard, he needs to work with a power skating coach.

I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa. New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.

Michallica wrote:I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa.  New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.  

No one in this NHL is gonna give you anything for Ryan unless there's bad money attached. 7.25 million dollars...10% of the entire team's cap...who would take that?

SpezDispensed wrote:

Michallica wrote:I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa.  New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.  

No one in this NHL is gonna give you anything for Ryan unless there's bad money attached.  7.25 million dollars...10% of the entire team's cap...who would take that?

Sure, take some salary back but someone will add $3-4M to their salary cap for him. He's not THAT useless as we make him out to be.

Michallica wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

Michallica wrote:I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa.  New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.  

No one in this NHL is gonna give you anything for Ryan unless there's bad money attached.  7.25 million dollars...10% of the entire team's cap...who would take that?

Sure, take some salary back but someone will add $3-4M to their salary cap for him. He's not THAT useless as we make him out to be.  

3, 4 million perhaps yeah, no one's gonna take the whole amount. And you might have trouble with finding a taker period considering he's about to be 30 and has 6 years left. But...I'm being hard on him because I'm so disappointed in what he's brought to us.

I dont agree. I see polenta Of heart in Ryan. If anything i think he was injures in some parts and in other parts has hard to prop up zib so that he could score goals. The difference be tweet how he played in Anaheim and Ottawa is that there he was paired with relatively good centremen and was more expected to provide offence.min Ottawa he's been tasked because of zib's play at being more of a playmaker which doesn't carry well in terms of production. If he was paired with turris(which I hope he will be) he will likely come out with an improved production.
We'll this year. But that's my opinion.

SpezDispensed wrote:

Michallica wrote:I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa.  New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.  

No one in this NHL is gonna give you anything for Ryan unless there's bad money attached.  7.25 million dollars...10% of the entire team's cap...who would take that?

Expansion team looking to reach the floor.

Flo The Action wrote:I dont agree. I see polenta Of heart in Ryan. If anything i think he was injures in some parts and in other parts has hard to prop up zib so that he could score goals. The difference be tweet how he played in Anaheim and Ottawa is that there he was paired with relatively good centremen and was more expected to provide offence.min Ottawa he's been tasked because of zib's play at being more of a playmaker which doesn't carry well in terms of production. If he was paired with turris(which I hope he will be) he will likely come out with an improved production.
We'll this year. But that's my opinion.

He didn't gel with Spezza (albeit it was only a dozen games or so), he's played with Turris and Zibanejad and Pageau. He's had a tough time here in Ottawa. 3 years, out of excuses.

wprager wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I dont agree. I see polenta Of heart in Ryan. If anything i think he was injures in some parts and in other parts has hard to prop up zib so that he could score goals. The difference be tweet how he played in Anaheim and Ottawa is that there he was paired with relatively good centremen and was more expected to provide offence.min Ottawa he's been tasked because of zib's play at being more of a playmaker which doesn't carry well in terms of production. If he was paired with turris(which I hope he will be) he will likely come out with an improved production.
We'll this year. But that's my opinion.

He didn't gel with Spezza (albeit it was only a dozen games or so), he's played with Turris and Zibanejad and Pageau.  He's had a tough time here in Ottawa.  3 years, out of excuses.

He's played minimally with turris but the times he was he had a lot more success.

Flo The Action wrote:I dont agree. I see polenta Of heart in Ryan. If anything i think he was injures in some parts and in other parts has hard to prop up zib so that he could score goals. The difference be tweet how he played in Anaheim and Ottawa is that there he was paired with relatively good centremen and was more expected to provide offence.min Ottawa he's been tasked because of zib's play at being more of a playmaker which doesn't carry well in terms of production. If he was paired with turris(which I hope he will be) he will likely come out with an improved production.
We'll this year. But that's my opinion.

He may just not be capable, he does seem much slower than I remember him in Anaheim and doesn't sound like his off-ice training is changing. I hope he turns it around too but prags brought up a good point, there is an expansion draft coming soon and I would wager he definitely wouldn't be protected by the senators. And there's a damn good reason for it too.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

Michallica wrote:I see this upcoming season as Ryan's last chance in Ottawa.  New coach coming in, if he can't get his game straight now, with the money we'll need for Stone, Karlsson, Zibanejad (also on the bubble), Ceci, Turris, Hoffman (bubble)....I can't see management justify keeping Ryan and his $7M+ cap hit and salary on the books.  

No one in this NHL is gonna give you anything for Ryan unless there's bad money attached.  7.25 million dollars...10% of the entire team's cap...who would take that?

Expansion team looking to reach the floor.

There are better ways to reach the floor than being tied down for 5 years and 38 million