How do we fix the Senators

Flo The Action wrote:

LeCaptain wrote:

Ev wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:White won't be rushed. He'll be ready. He's better than zibanejad right now, most likely

Ya. Right. Sounds awfully similar to when everyone was saying Paul was ready to jump to the NHL. Yet he's doing average in Bingo. I'd say you let him take his game through the different levels instead of rushing yet another prospect.

just because people would say he was "rushed" doesn't mean he was rushed. You don't understand how goof White is right now and how polished he is. That would be like saying the Wings rushed Larkin.

As long as he doesn't go to Bingo. That place is a dump right now.

I disagree. Bingo might be very different next year. You add white, Chabot, Perron, gagné  possibly England and Wilkstrand and you have a very different make-up of the team. I've said it before, this year is a transition year for bingo. You look at some of the guys on the team that were brought in and that aren't close to being a prospect and you see it's all stop gap. In my opinion there is no way you should be starting white on the sens roster. Establish himself in bingo first. He might have looked good in a prospect camp but it's a huge difference day in day out in the NHL. If he starts slumping how does that affect him again young age? Maturity is a huge factor in growing a prospect and I'm a huge believer in time. The stressors aren't close to the same between bingo and the big stage.

tim1_2 wrote:

wprager wrote:I looked at the stats of 2-nd pairing D-men from several teams.  I sorted based on  TOI/Game making the assumption that the 3rd/4th guys were the likely 2nd pairing.  It's not perfect but it's something.  This is what I've got (games goals/assists/points +/-):

Bston:
Seidenberg - 34  0/7/7     -2
Miller          - 43  3/10/13  +6

Wings:
Green         - 44 2/17/19   -6
Ericsson     - 45 1/7/8       +6

Panthers:
Kulikov        - 42  1/7/8     +11
Mitchell        - 46  1/6/7     -2

And now compare these to Ceci  - 44 5/10/15  -2

Don't forget that Ottawa is a -17 (goal differential) team; Detroit is -4, Boston is +15, Florida is +30!  

How is Ceci *not* a legit 2nd pairing D-man?  Give your head a shake.  And if that doesn't work, give it a spin as well.

Wow, such detailed analysis.  Anyway, I actually watch the games and can see that Ceci is having a tough time out there.  

So you can look at his stat line from the game against the Pens and say, "wow, 2 points, a +1, great game!"  But what that doesn't tell you is the the sheer misery that he caused in his own end, which is what some of the advanced stat line actually does tell you.  

I don't really want to argue about Ceci.  I'd keep him, as I think he'll continue to develop.  I think we'd be a better team, though, with a legit 2nd defensive pairing that doesn't include him.

LeCaptain wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:I haven't been this frustrated at management/ownership for a long long time, if ever. We have a great core with a spectacular elite defenseman and this is likely as good as it's going to get but because of bad context they've handcuffed themselves in making moves. This is pathetic. Sometimes, secretly, late late at night,  in the cover of darkness, I wishMelnyk would of failed the the transplant.
New ownership.

I don't see how a new owner is gonna help develop more defensemen..
Are the Predators /Ducks paying their Defensemen billions of $$ or something?

LeCaptain wrote:I don't think ownership is preventing us from making moves.
Fact is we need a trade like the Bobby Ryan one but on defense.
The difference is we don't have a Silfverberg to trade anymore because our guys haven't developped well (Prince, Puempel etc).

Michallica wrote:Not too many moves made in general though.  The team that really needed to make moves was MTL in their downward spiral and even they could only muster that Scrivens and John Scott trade.  

The price is high for moves and alot of teams haven't bought into being sellers yet.  Next 2 weeks should start to weed things.

I think shipping out greening's contract is more to do with being loyal to the player and all that stuff which is also a fault.  I have no doubts they'll be buying out greening this off-season.  ANd if it came to it, ther'es no way sens would pass up a trade that makes them better just because they can't get someone to take greening.  If that's the case, Murray should be fired on the spot.

Ev wrote:I will try...to fix you

Michallica wrote:That's my concern as well.  Ceci was supposed to be another offensive weapon, I'm not really in the camp that believes Chabot is the answer and he'll be the next great offensive talent.  His value is high right now, I'd move him for a legit top 4 dman (my pick is Edler, obviously you add to it but that would be the base).  

If you can have this as your top 4:

Methot-Karlsson
Edler-Ceci

I think you're in good shape.  And then return Boro to the bottom pair with Wideman.  That's a solid balance.

LeCaptain wrote:For what it's worth Pierre said on TGOR this morning that he'd be shocked if White is not in the NHL netxt year. Said he was the steal of the draft and he's an A+ level prospect.
If we decide to tank the year I suggest to trade Zibanejad or Lazar. That should bring a top 4 Defenseman and a pretty good one.

tim1_2 wrote:

LeCaptain wrote:For what it's worth Pierre said on TGOR this morning that he'd be shocked if White is not in the NHL netxt year. Said he was the steal of the draft and he's an A+ level prospect.
If we decide to tank the year I suggest to trade Zibanejad or Lazar. That should bring a top 4 Defenseman and a pretty good one.

Sounds good.  Also, Hoffman could be parlayed into a good return, if we doubt our ability to sign him long term.