GDT: Sens @ Islanders, Tuesday Dec 2nd, 7:00pm (TSN5, RDS)

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah, keep the guy holding out... good call.

Methot's injury is complete BS and it's based on his agent telling him to hold out because of contract talks.  Like everyone said before the season got started, this turned ugly, it's still ugly, and Methot is a player that's going to be traded.  He's a goof off the ice, he's a cancer in that room right now while other guys are busting their asses.  Methot coming back won't change a thing.  It's becoming a joke and this is the distraction the Sens and the team didn't need this year.

Lol I saw him chillin with many of the Sens. I don't think he's a cancer

So? Doesn't mean he isn't well liked. I like a lot of people but I would never want to work with them or count on them to be something they are not. Giving Methot the pay he wants, the role he wants, with all his garbage is a recipe for disaster. Hell, he's been the biggest off ice topic the last 2 years from his healthy scratches to his "injury".

SpezDispensed wrote:lol, you don't trade your 2nd best D-man when you blow chunks defensively.

Blowing chunks defensively isn't just on the defensemen, it's on the forwards too.

Beyond that it's systemic. The breakdowns occur in the neutral and offensive zone, probably more often than in the defensive zone. Errant passes, steals from long, high-risk passes, lost possessions from missing the net. The gaps are always huge and passes are generally from a long distance which gives opponents more time to read and react. And unlike the Sens, other teams know how to counter and actually put the puck on the net instead of finding a way to lose possession.

It's always easier to blame one or two guys though.

I agree with SSF right there other than the blaming 2 guys part. The Sens needed a complete overhaul and losing Alfie was the beginning of the end of the "golden era" Senators. Methot isn't going to come in and change a thing... he had an awful season last year and hasn't played a second this year. He literally played 48 games of good hockey in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa yet he's going to be the difference maker? Have fun going insane, lol.

NEELY wrote:Methot is probably the type of thing that is wrong with the Sens, not right.  Yah, he's a top 4 D man but he's nothing special and he's brought a lot of off ice crap to the team.  He's a me first type guy, simple as that.

Once incident last year where he was coming back from an injury and PMac held him off the roster. I don't remember anything since then other than the contract negotiations.

I'm not saying back up the truck and give him what he wants, but right now his return means Phillips goes back to playing the third pairing with Gryba and Karlsson goes back to doing his job instead of trying to do both his and Phillips'.

Karlsson and Anderson will play tonight. BoroCop and Smith are back in the lineup.

Your scratches are Greening, Wiercioch, Methot, and Bobby R.

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:Methot is probably the type of thing that is wrong with the Sens, not right.  Yah, he's a top 4 D man but he's nothing special and he's brought a lot of off ice crap to the team.  He's a me first type guy, simple as that.

The thing is, fixing the defence is not going to be easy.  We have a bunch of guys best-suited to the bottom pairing (Phillips, BoroCop, Gryba, Wiercioch).  Our top 4 moving forward might be Methot/Karlsson and Cowen/Ceci.  I think the jury's still out on Cowen and Methot...it's really hard to address the situation when we're not even sure how bad it is.  

Do we trade one of Cowen/Methot?  Do we try to sign a big name UFA LD this summer?  Are there any big name LD available this summer?

The first step is probably to evaluate Methot in his first 15 games or so back from injury.

Karlsson-Methot
Ceci-Cowen
Gryba-Phillips

Boro/Wiercioch extras

Next year start Karlsson with Cowen so they can develop some chemistry. Bring up Claesson and fill that 2nd pairing left side with a rotation of Phillips/Wiercioch/Borowiecki/Claesson until one of them earns it on a more permanent basis. Of course, in the off-season you also investigate trade possibilities.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Methot is probably the type of thing that is wrong with the Sens, not right.  Yah, he's a top 4 D man but he's nothing special and he's brought a lot of off ice crap to the team.  He's a me first type guy, simple as that.

Once incident last year where he was coming back from an injury and PMac held him off the roster.  I don't remember anything since then other than the contract negotiations.  

I'm not saying back up the truck and give him what he wants, but right now his return means Phillips goes back to playing the third pairing with Gryba and Karlsson goes back to doing his job instead of trying to do both his and Phillips'.

Haha it wasn't because of his injury, it was because he was drinking his face off then coming to practice 1/2 in the bag and wanted to leave because he wasn't feeling well. MacLean scratched him.

Methot in theory makes the defense better, moves everyone down a spot which is a good thing but this isn't going to cure what ails the Sens and it certainly isn't indicative to what Methot is off the ice. His agent is also a complete blow hard and will do everything to get every cent for his clients and that's Methot's call.

NEELY wrote:Yah, keep the guy holding out... good call.

Methot's injury is complete BS and it's based on his agent telling him to hold out because of contract talks.  Like everyone said before the season got started, this turned ugly, it's still ugly, and Methot is a player that's going to be traded.  He's a goof off the ice, he's a cancer in that room right now while other guys are busting their asses.  Methot coming back won't change a thing.  It's becoming a joke and this is the distraction the Sens and the team didn't need this year.

More likely the distraction is waiting for the other shoe to drop w.r.t. the 23-man roster.  When all are healthy, who is gone?  There are plenty of candidates.  Oh, and your GM dying before your eyes is probably a bit distracting, too.

But, sure, blame it on the guy who hasn't played a shift since April.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:Methot is probably the type of thing that is wrong with the Sens, not right.  Yah, he's a top 4 D man but he's nothing special and he's brought a lot of off ice crap to the team.  He's a me first type guy, simple as that.

The thing is, fixing the defence is not going to be easy.  We have a bunch of guys best-suited to the bottom pairing (Phillips, BoroCop, Gryba, Wiercioch).  Our top 4 moving forward might be Methot/Karlsson and Cowen/Ceci.  I think the jury's still out on Cowen and Methot...it's really hard to address the situation when we're not even sure how bad it is.  

Do we trade one of Cowen/Methot?  Do we try to sign a big name UFA LD this summer?  Are there any big name LD available this summer?

The first step is probably to evaluate Methot in his first 15 games or so back from injury.

Karlsson-Methot
Ceci-Cowen
Gryba-Phillips

Boro/Wiercioch extras

Next year start Karlsson with Cowen so they can develop some chemistry. Bring up Claesson and fill that 2nd pairing left side with a rotation of Phillips/Wiercioch/Borowiecki/Claesson until one of them earns it on a more permanent basis. Of course, in the off-season you also investigate trade possibilities.

The problem with your plan is that it's a bunch of quantity of quality. Claesson and Wideman are two guys in Bingo who should find themselves in the NHL next year, whether it's with the Sens or not.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:Methot is probably the type of thing that is wrong with the Sens, not right.  Yah, he's a top 4 D man but he's nothing special and he's brought a lot of off ice crap to the team.  He's a me first type guy, simple as that.

The thing is, fixing the defence is not going to be easy.  We have a bunch of guys best-suited to the bottom pairing (Phillips, BoroCop, Gryba, Wiercioch).  Our top 4 moving forward might be Methot/Karlsson and Cowen/Ceci.  I think the jury's still out on Cowen and Methot...it's really hard to address the situation when we're not even sure how bad it is.  

Do we trade one of Cowen/Methot?  Do we try to sign a big name UFA LD this summer?  Are there any big name LD available this summer?

The first step is probably to evaluate Methot in his first 15 games or so back from injury.

Karlsson-Methot
Ceci-Cowen
Gryba-Phillips

Boro/Wiercioch extras

Next year start Karlsson with Cowen so they can develop some chemistry.  Bring up Claesson and fill that 2nd pairing left side with a rotation of Phillips/Wiercioch/Borowiecki/Claesson until one of them earns it on a more permanent basis.  Of course, in the off-season you also investigate trade possibilities.

The Sens need leadership... they have none right now and especially on the back end. Karlsson is going to take years to be molded into what they want him to be so people need to be patient there but he needs help.

You can't get leadership from a guy like Phillips who can barely handly 3rd pairing minutes. You aren't going to get it from Methot who has proven to be an extremely selfish player on and off the ice... bringing guys up from Bingo won't fix that either. They need some guys back there who know what to do and when to do it, right now they have a bunch of guys developing, a player refusing to play because of an injury, and a 36 year old D man who is on his last legs to say the least.

SpezDispensed wrote:Who said that he was holding out because of the contract?  I'd like to see that from a reputable source.  He's not that dumb, come on.  He knows if he doesn't play, he's gonna get a 1 year contract as a UFA, if he does play and play well, the skies the limit for him.

What logic is that lol?  And who told you that?

No one.

A player heading to UFA status isn't going to fake an injury to not play.

LeCaptain wrote:Apparently Karlsson was not on the ice. It's noon and no move yet.

Karlsson doesn't need to skate more.

However Ryan, Methot, Greening and Wiercioch stayed back for extra skating, but they weren't skated hard. Sot it looks like some game-time decisions to come.

Maybe they are working a trade in the background and when it didn't finalize as early as they hoped they told Methot he might not play.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:Who said that he was holding out because of the contract?  I'd like to see that from a reputable source.  He's not that dumb, come on.  He knows if he doesn't play, he's gonna get a 1 year contract as a UFA, if he does play and play well, the skies the limit for him.

What logic is that lol?  And who told you that?

No one.

A player heading to UFA status isn't going to fake an injury to not play.

Right.

Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah, keep the guy holding out... good call.

Methot's injury is complete BS and it's based on his agent telling him to hold out because of contract talks.  Like everyone said before the season got started, this turned ugly, it's still ugly, and Methot is a player that's going to be traded.  He's a goof off the ice, he's a cancer in that room right now while other guys are busting their asses.  Methot coming back won't change a thing.  It's becoming a joke and this is the distraction the Sens and the team didn't need this year.

Lol I saw him chillin with many of the Sens. I don't think he's a cancer

There are cancers in the organization and they are affecting the players. And I'm not talking about personalities.

NEELY wrote:I agree with SSF right there other than the blaming 2 guys part.  The Sens needed a complete overhaul and losing Alfie was the beginning of the end of the "golden era" Senators.  Methot isn't going to come in and change a thing... he had an awful season last year and hasn't played a second this year.  He literally played 48 games of good hockey in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa yet he's going to be the difference maker?  Have fun going insane, lol.

Golden era was done way before Alfie skated off into the sunset.

Could very well be it as well.

Fact is management is a mess because of Murray right now, coaching seems to be spinning it wheels, a guy like Methot who they are depending on is refusing to play through any kind of "injury", and the Sens are void of any real leadership or consistency.

The Sens are in for a long stretch here and I think people will find the Sabres catching them in the standings in very short order.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I agree with SSF right there other than the blaming 2 guys part.  The Sens needed a complete overhaul and losing Alfie was the beginning of the end of the "golden era" Senators.  Methot isn't going to come in and change a thing... he had an awful season last year and hasn't played a second this year.  He literally played 48 games of good hockey in his first 3 seasons in Ottawa yet he's going to be the difference maker?  Have fun going insane, lol.

Golden era was done way before Alfie skated off into the sunset.  

Alfie was the golden era.

gord wilson ‏@gordwilson 1m1 minute ago

Maintenance morning for Karlsson-he's good to go tonite.
Phillips- karlsson
Cowen-ceci
Boro-gryba Ryan, Weircioch out.
Anderson to start