Jason Spezza - Trade Discussion

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

I don't see why he'd be any different really. He needed a change of scenary - and I think it's pretty obvious he needed away from Eakins. I like him, I think he'll succeed big time if he doesn't encounter injuries.

Hemsky's career comparable: Martin Havlat

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

Will he end up with the same team that Spezza does, if that team is a playoff team.  Hemsky wants to play in the playoffs.  The Sens aren't there this season.

Holy frig man, can people stop talking about Hemsky like he's going to follow Spezza or that him and Spezza have instantly become best friends.  They looked ok together when the season was basically over, that's it.  Hemsky isn't worth 5.5 mil on a long term deal, Spezza isn't worth 7 plus mil on a long term deal, the Sens are saying bye to both.  Maybe they somehow end up on the same team, cool beans.  Those two players would keep Ottawa from doing what they organization needs to do and that's wipe the slate clean and focus on the new core of players coming in.

As for the Sens aren't being there... well there's a chance because they don't have Spezza.  It amazes me how you and a lot of other people can claim the Sens "suck" or "won't be able to compete" with the other teams in the East.  Who were the 2 conference finalist again?  Montreal and NYR?  Was that the same Montreal team they beat in 5 games last year?  Think so.  Is it the same Ranger team they took to 7 games 2 seasons ago?  Pretty much.  The Sens have as solid a foundation as any team in the NHL... only thing they MIGHT be missing is some scoring on the wings and even then they have some guys coming up ready to challenge for a spot.

Sandy, you should change your name to chicken little because I have never seen so many posts crying about something, why this doesn't work, why that doesn't work, why the Sens will suck, why the Sens will forever be ruined.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

I don't see why he'd be any different really.  He needed a change of scenary - and I think it's pretty obvious he needed away from Eakins.  I like him, I think he'll succeed big time if he doesn't encounter injuries.

Hemsky's career comparable: Martin Havlat

Maybe, but without the near career ending injuries to shoulders, no? I might be wrong. It actually doesn't sound that far-fetched.

That's why I wanted him on a 3 year deal personally.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

I don't see why he'd be any different really.  He needed a change of scenary - and I think it's pretty obvious he needed away from Eakins.  I like him, I think he'll succeed big time if he doesn't encounter injuries.

Eakins was there for 4 months, lol.  He's been averaging 40 points a season since 2010, not like that's something that can't be found... well anywhere.  I agree he needed out of Edmonton to get his career going again but lets not pretend Hemsky is some all-star that should be getting a 20-25 million dollar deal.

Smarter thing to do?  Spend it on players who score lots of goals or that score some goals and do everything else right.  MacArthur and Ryan are the two top line wingers, Hemsky just happened to play with Spezza who was a #1 center that they were desperate to get the last bit of hockey out of him as a Sen.  Kind of worked but not nearly well enough.

Anyways, we'll see what happens but Hemsky isn't exactly the type of player you win with just like Spezza isn't that type of player either.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

I don't see why he'd be any different really.  He needed a change of scenary - and I think it's pretty obvious he needed away from Eakins.  I like him, I think he'll succeed big time if he doesn't encounter injuries.

Eakins was there for 4 months, lol.  He's been averaging 40 points a season since 2010, not like that's something that can't be found... well anywhere.  I agree he needed out of Edmonton to get his career going again but lets not pretend Hemsky is some all-star that should be getting a 20-25 million dollar deal.

Smarter thing to do?  Spend it on players who score lots of goals or that score some goals and do everything else right.  MacArthur and Ryan are the two top line wingers, Hemsky just happened to play with Spezza who was a #1 center that they were desperate to get the last bit of hockey out of him as a Sen.  Kind of worked but not nearly well enough.

Anyways, we'll see what happens but Hemsky isn't exactly the type of player you win with just like Spezza isn't that type of player either.

Was Eakins only there 4 months? I think it was longer than that. Either way, yes he needed out of Edmonton and when we got him pretty much the only reason I was excited was because of the price we paid.

After watching him closely, I liked everything he brought to the table. I was shocked to see him not shy away from contact and I was even more shocked at the way he took the puck and drove lanes with his speed to the net.

I hate to say it, but I don't really think Spezza and him are that much alike. I think you could win with Hemsky being your 2nd line RW, but I don't think you could win with Spezza being a top 2 line C.

This is what I think things will shake out as when the dust settles:

MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Berglund - Zibanejad - Stone
Hoffman (?) - Lazar - Stempniak
Greening - Smith - Neil

I feel Hoffman might be the odd man out personally, but I'm not sure what happens.

Also think they go for a veteran on the 3rd line wing and let Lazar play C, but if that happens, then you're closing the door on Da Costa or Pageau coming in.

NEELY wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd also really like to keep Hemsky.  No reason for us not to offer him a 5 million dollar X 3 contract - although I'm sure someone will beat that.  That guy competed really hard here and was never hesitent to drive the net and go to the dirty areas.

We'll see how well Hemsky does once he signs his deal.

Will he end up with the same team that Spezza does, if that team is a playoff team.  Hemsky wants to play in the playoffs.  The Sens aren't there this season.

Holy frig man, can people stop talking about Hemsky like he's going to follow Spezza or that him and Spezza have instantly become best friends.  They looked ok together when the season was basically over, that's it.  Hemsky isn't worth 5.5 mil on a long term deal, Spezza isn't worth 7 plus mil on a long term deal, the Sens are saying bye to both.  Maybe they somehow end up on the same team, cool beans.  Those two players would keep Ottawa from doing what they organization needs to do and that's wipe the slate clean and focus on the new core of players coming in.

As for the Sens aren't being there... well there's a chance because they don't have Spezza.  It amazes me how you and a lot of other people can claim the Sens "suck" or "won't be able to compete" with the other teams in the East.  Who were the 2 conference finalist again?  Montreal and NYR?  Was that the same Montreal team they beat in 5 games last year?  Think so.  Is it the same Ranger team they took to 7 games 2 seasons ago?  Pretty much.  The Sens have as solid a foundation as any team in the NHL... only thing they MIGHT be missing is some scoring on the wings and even then they have some guys coming up ready to challenge for a spot.

Sandy, you should change your name to chicken little because I have never seen so many posts crying about something, why this doesn't work, why that doesn't work, why the Sens will suck, why the Sens will forever be ruined.

I'm being a little realistic or cautious I guess. Looking at what teams made the playoffs this season in the East, which one of those 8 is not making it next season that the Sens would make it in?

Based on the return for Spezza, this team could end up being a one line team and a few young players. If they don't upgrade the defense then that's not going to help either.

This team is young and still learning.

The Rangers have a much better defense and goaltending than the Sens had this season and maybe next season. You can't argue that. Montreal has speed and stellar goaltending.

I want this team to excel but it certainly is not there yet. They have a young base of good players but it will take time for them to be a contender.

Now getting a key UFA this year like Stastny would certainly change my opinion of next season. Getting a 2nd line winger in the Spezza trade would go a long way as well. But how likely are those to happen?

I expected so much from the last season and was disappointed with the outcome. Let's just say I'm tempering expectations going into next season.

Define 2nd line winger. If you mean a 6'4, good skating guy who loves to stand in front of the net to deflect shots, is excellent defensively and plays a 200 foot game, then I think you'll get what you wish in Patrick Berglund.

Speed is something that the Sens are consciously trying to add. Speed and size. The new core has at least good speed in MacArthur, Turris, Zibanejad, Lazar, now they have to be surrounded by others.

The Spezza trade will bring back a 2nd line. The rest of the spots will be filled either internally by Hoffman, Da Costa, Pageau, Lazar etc. or will be filled by consumate pros like Stempniak, Grabovski, maybe Goc etc.

The team's identity will be similar to the identity that led us to the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years - a pack mentality, where it's not one line, not one guy, it's a team game. Support in the defensive zone, a tremendous forecheck, hard hitting, speed and some goals.

That's what we have to do to continue to develop this team into what we want it to be - ie the Bruins and not the Oilers.

I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson. And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand. A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B). A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar. Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well. He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available. People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre. He can get PP time when needed. I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre.  He can get PP time when needed.  I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

Then you try to sign Legwand as a solution for 2C.  It's all about doing this by committee IMO.  If Zibanejad can't do 2C now, then when?  If we get Berglund back, he can play C as well, Lazar can play C as well, Da Costa is primed to do some good things in the NHL and he's a natural C.  Pageau as well.

I think you'll love seeing Lazar and/or Berglund standing in front of the net.  That's where it's at IMO.  Unless of course Berglund doesn't get sent over here, but I'd put it at even odds that he's a Senator sooner rather than later.  Perfectly describes what we're after, an obvious trade piece for St.Louis.  It fits like a glove.

I also wouldn't bet on Raymond signing in Toronto. They have 20 mil for 8 players as of the right now - which is fine, but they have some huge holes to fill. If they go after Thornton, you can bet Raymond becomes an afterthough, which is where some GM who knows and likes him can swoop in and make a solid offer.

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre.  He can get PP time when needed.  I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

Then you try to sign Legwand as a solution for 2C.  It's all about doing this by committee IMO.  If Zibanejad can't do 2C now, then when?  If we get Berglund back, he can play C as well, Lazar can play C as well, Da Costa is primed to do some good things in the NHL and he's a natural C.  Pageau as well.

I think you'll love seeing Lazar and/or Berglund standing in front of the net.  That's where it's at IMO.  Unless of course Berglund doesn't get sent over here, but I'd put it at even odds that he's a Senator sooner rather than later.  Perfectly describes what we're after, an obvious trade piece for St.Louis.  It fits like a glove.

I also wouldn't bet on Raymond signing in Toronto.  They have 20 mil for 8 players as of the right now - which is fine, but they have some huge holes to fill.  If they go after Thornton, you can bet Raymond becomes an afterthough, which is where some GM who knows and likes him can swoop in and make a solid offer.

Whoever this guy is:

"Nicholas Hand @Nick_Hand · Jun 6
Hearing rumblings of a major shakeup inside the #stlblues front office. #Developing"

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre.  He can get PP time when needed.  I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

Then you try to sign Legwand as a solution for 2C.  It's all about doing this by committee IMO.  If Zibanejad can't do 2C now, then when?  If we get Berglund back, he can play C as well, Lazar can play C as well, Da Costa is primed to do some good things in the NHL and he's a natural C.  Pageau as well.

I think you'll love seeing Lazar and/or Berglund standing in front of the net.  That's where it's at IMO.  Unless of course Berglund doesn't get sent over here, but I'd put it at even odds that he's a Senator sooner rather than later.  Perfectly describes what we're after, an obvious trade piece for St.Louis.  It fits like a glove.

I also wouldn't bet on Raymond signing in Toronto.  They have 20 mil for 8 players as of the right now - which is fine, but they have some huge holes to fill.  If they go after Thornton, you can bet Raymond becomes an afterthough, which is where some GM who knows and likes him can swoop in and make a solid offer.

Whoever this guy is:

"Nicholas Hand @Nick_Hand · Jun 6
Hearing rumblings of a major shakeup inside the #stlblues front office. #Developing"

Still shouldn't change the fact that they want Spezza, but that's probably pretty interesting timing.

Less than two weeks to go!

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre.  He can get PP time when needed.  I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

Then you try to sign Legwand as a solution for 2C.  It's all about doing this by committee IMO.  If Zibanejad can't do 2C now, then when?  If we get Berglund back, he can play C as well, Lazar can play C as well, Da Costa is primed to do some good things in the NHL and he's a natural C.  Pageau as well.

I think you'll love seeing Lazar and/or Berglund standing in front of the net.  That's where it's at IMO.  Unless of course Berglund doesn't get sent over here, but I'd put it at even odds that he's a Senator sooner rather than later.  Perfectly describes what we're after, an obvious trade piece for St.Louis.  It fits like a glove.

I also wouldn't bet on Raymond signing in Toronto.  They have 20 mil for 8 players as of the right now - which is fine, but they have some huge holes to fill.  If they go after Thornton, you can bet Raymond becomes an afterthough, which is where some GM who knows and likes him can swoop in and make a solid offer.

Whoever this guy is:

"Nicholas Hand @Nick_Hand · Jun 6
Hearing rumblings of a major shakeup inside the #stlblues front office. #Developing"

Still shouldn't change the fact that they want Spezza, but that's probably pretty interesting timing.

Could mean a lot. Maybe they want Spezza but Armstrong won't pay the price, OR it could be that some in the organization don't want Spezza at any price.

The next couple of weeks are going to be soooooo looonnnggg.

sandysensfan wrote:
Could mean a lot.  Maybe they want Spezza but Armstrong won't pay the price, OR it could be that some in the organization don't want Spezza at any price.

The next couple of weeks are going to be soooooo looonnnggg.

They wouldn't fire someone over that IMO. You don't want Spezza? Fine, go try to get Thornton or Kesler or whatever. They're a budget team though and perhaps they wanted to re-sign Spezza now and ran into trouble.

Or...maybe the ownership group was sick of losing in early rounds.

Sorry for the long post...

Ottawa needs a good, experienced top-six forward, and top-four defenceman who can control the tempo of a game. They have tons of 3rd/4th line depth and prospects ready to go, but no player ready to take the team to the next level or score that big game-changing goal.

I counted 15 players/prospects who can push for 12 NHL forward spots and 11 defencemen (8 on one-way contracts) pushing for 6 NHL defencemen spots.

The second a multi-player trade for Spezza happens, these numbers become even worse. It also hurts our ability to sign free-agents in that we're not going to sign a 9th defenceman or add UFA forwards without sending some players packing first.

I think Murray has to face reality in that having prospect 'depth' isn't going to get you anywhere when you have to sign players to multi-year contracts. Losing Spezza will hurt this team offensively and we're not good enough defensively to play a defensive style game.

In terms of asking for the same return as the Bobby Ryan trade, we gave up a top-six player who has accomplished nothing at the NHL level, an oft-injured forward prospect, and a 1st rd pick that should not have been a top-10 pick. So, what do we really expect in return for Spezza? If you want to see real value out of the Spezza trade, you need to add to it in order to ensure fair/comparable value. DSP, Sbisa, 1st rd pick just doesn't cut it for me.

I'd be trying to do the following:

To Anaheim: Spezza, Condra, Gryba
To Ottawa: Lindholm, Palmieri, 1st rd pick

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

- Sign Grabovski

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Palmieri-Grabovski-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Stone
Greening-Da Costa-Neil
Gazdic

Lindholm-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Phillips-Wiercioch
Boro

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Sorry for the long post...

Ottawa needs a good, experienced top-six forward, and top-four defenceman who can control the tempo of a game. They have tons of 3rd/4th line depth and prospects ready to go, but no player ready to take the team to the next level or score that big game-changing goal.

I counted 15 players/prospects who can push for 12 NHL forward spots and 11 defencemen (8 on one-way contracts) pushing for 6 NHL defencemen spots.

The second a multi-player trade for Spezza happens, these numbers become even worse. It also hurts our ability to sign free-agents in that we're not going to sign a 9th defenceman or add UFA forwards without sending some players packing first.

I think Murray has to face reality in that having prospect 'depth' isn't going to get you anywhere when you have to sign players to multi-year contracts. Losing Spezza will hurt this team offensively and we're not good enough defensively to play a defensive style game.

In terms of asking for the same return as the Bobby Ryan trade, we gave up a top-six player who has accomplished nothing at the NHL level, an oft-injured forward prospect, and a 1st rd pick that should not have been a top-10 pick. So, what do we really expect in return for Spezza? If you want to see real value out of the Spezza trade, you need to add to it in order to ensure fair/comparable value. DSP, Sbisa, 1st rd pick just doesn't cut it for me.

I'd be trying to do the following:

To Anaheim: Spezza, Condra, Gryba
To Ottawa: Lindholm, Palmieri, 1st rd pick

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

- Sign Grabovski

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Palmieri-Grabovski-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Stone
Greening-Da Costa-Neil
Gazdic

Lindholm-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Phillips-Wiercioch
Boro

Why doesn't DSP + 10th OV + another nice piece interest you? DSP is going to play and be a pain to play against for a long time. I agree with what you're saying in that the Sens need a veteran top 6 player, but at the same time, I really like the idea of the rumoured Anaheim or St.Louis trades for Spezza.

Also, there is no chance in the world Anaheim gives up Lindholm for anything, let alone Spezza. No chance. Let alone adding in Palmieri and a 1st. And...I'd ship Gryba off in that deal in a heartbeat, but otherwise I wouldn't move him. He's one of the brighter spots on our blueline right now.

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

That proposal is interesting however. Maybe have to add a little something to our end, maybe not, but I'd do that. Too bad giving up Smith, but that's life.