Jason Spezza - Trade Discussion

It doesn't matter what spezza wants

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:No one has their ear to the ground unless it's McKenzie or Freidman or one of those guys.  We can probably guess on 3 locations:

1.Anaheim
2.St.Louis
3.Nashville

1.  Would Spezza want to play 2nd fiddle to Getzlaf?
2.  He would probably take over 1st line centre in St Louis for Backes -- who is the first line centre?  Not 100% sure on that one..
3.  Not enough younger decent forward prospects that I would want to see the Sens get from them..

The Sens need at least 2 top 6 forwards to help out the #1 line if by the Spezza trade and a UFA -- if they want to get a sniff of the playoffs.  Zibby -- is he ready for the #2 centre position?  You want the Sens to put their young players in a position to succeed not a position to fail.

I wouldn't be too sure that Spezza wouldn't want to play 2c in Anaheim. Lots of opportunity for him to rack up the points in a winning environment.

The Sens don't need to address their forward needs with this one trade, they need to get one young guy who has a little but from each category. Speed, size, offense, jam. I want to say berglund from St. Louis but he was horrible vs the hawks, I'm not sure if it was because he was coming off injury or what, but he was bad.

After that the Sens need to re-assess and perhaps either sign a ufa or make a seperate transaction for another top 9 guy with experience.

wprager wrote:Spezza it's already playing second fiddle to Turris.

Ryan, Turris, MacArthur, Stone, Zibanejad, Lazar, DaCosta, Hoffman plus whoever we get back in the trade.  They lack experience, for sure, but that's the makings of a pretty good top nine. And Greening and Smith can fill in from time to time.

I think it's one or the other of da costa or Hoffman - or neither. Hoffman was pretty good in his time last year, but ideally you parlay him into a Stewart or someone like that.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Spezza it's already playing second fiddle to Turris.

Ryan, Turris, MacArthur, Stone, Zibanejad, Lazar, DaCosta, Hoffman plus whoever we get back in the trade.  They lack experience, for sure, but that's the makings of a pretty good top nine. And Greening and Smith can fill in from time to time.

I think it's one or the other of da costa or Hoffman - or neither.  Hoffman was pretty good in his time last year, but ideally you parlay him into a Stewart or someone like that.

That's the likelihood. BM will make the trade for Spezza and get what he can. Then he'll probably be moving a package including a prospect or two (take Ryan, Turris, Mac, and Zbad off that list above, add in Puempel, et al) for another top six.

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:No one has their ear to the ground unless it's McKenzie or Freidman or one of those guys.  We can probably guess on 3 locations:

1.Anaheim
2.St.Louis
3.Nashville

1.  Would Spezza want to play 2nd fiddle to Getzlaf?
2.  He would probably take over 1st line centre in St Louis for Backes -- who is the first line centre?  Not 100% sure on that one..
3.  Not enough younger decent forward prospects that I would want to see the Sens get from them..

The Sens need at least 2 top 6 forwards to help out the #1 line if by the Spezza trade and a UFA -- if they want to get a sniff of the playoffs.  Zibby -- is he ready for the #2 centre position?  You want the Sens to put their young players in a position to succeed not a position to fail.

I wouldn't be too sure that Spezza wouldn't want to play 2c in Anaheim. Lots of opportunity for him to rack up the points in a winning environment.  

The Sens don't need to address their forward needs with this one trade, they need to get one young guy who has a little but from each category.  Speed, size, offense, jam. I want to say berglund from St. Louis but he was horrible vs the hawks, I'm not sure if it was because he was coming off injury or what, but he was bad.  

After that the Sens need to re-assess and perhaps either sign a ufa or make a seperate transaction for another top 9 guy with experience.

Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:No one has their ear to the ground unless it's McKenzie or Freidman or one of those guys.  We can probably guess on 3 locations:

1.Anaheim
2.St.Louis
3.Nashville

1.  Would Spezza want to play 2nd fiddle to Getzlaf?
2.  He would probably take over 1st line centre in St Louis for Backes -- who is the first line centre?  Not 100% sure on that one..
3.  Not enough younger decent forward prospects that I would want to see the Sens get from them..

The Sens need at least 2 top 6 forwards to help out the #1 line if by the Spezza trade and a UFA -- if they want to get a sniff of the playoffs.  Zibby -- is he ready for the #2 centre position?  You want the Sens to put their young players in a position to succeed not a position to fail.

You mention that like anyone should care.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Spezza it's already playing second fiddle to Turris.

Ryan, Turris, MacArthur, Stone, Zibanejad, Lazar, DaCosta, Hoffman plus whoever we get back in the trade.  They lack experience, for sure, but that's the makings of a pretty good top nine. And Greening and Smith can fill in from time to time.

I think it's one or the other of da costa or Hoffman - or neither.  Hoffman was pretty good in his time last year, but ideally you parlay him into a Stewart or someone like that.

I'm just saying we have a dozen eggs and we only need to make a 9-egg omelet. Or a six-egg omelet, a small scrambled eggs and jam on the side. Can you tell I missed breakfast?

spader wrote:
Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

We're not going to get a lot for a one-year rental. If we deal him to a team he's willing to sign with on a longer term deal then we will be able to negotiate better terms. So it *does* matter a little what Jason wants.

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:
Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

We're not going to get a lot for a one-year rental.  If we deal him to a team he's willing to sign with on a longer term deal then we will be able to negotiate better terms.  So it *does* matter a little what Jason wants.

Please tell me what that is based on.  If 3, 4 teams are bidding for him who have a window that is open now to win a cup and need to jump over Chicago and LA to do it  why would the Sens not be getting back good to great pieces?

If St.Louis and Anaheim are the only 2 teams involved they will be beating the crap out of each other to try and land him.  That said there are teams like Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix that want to get over a hump as well.  Spezza will have no shortage of teams will to pay for him.

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:
Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

We're not going to get a lot for a one-year rental. If we deal him to a team he's willing to sign with on a longer term deal then we will be able to negotiate better terms. So it *does* matter a little what Jason wants.

It really doesn't matter. He cannot sign an extension until July, and he will likely be traded by the draft. A "contender" looking for additional punch on the PP and a 2nd line centre to balance their attack will pay whether he signs an extension or not. Those teams are looking at a win now. Spezza is not a building piece, he is a get over the hump piece and as such the return should be fairly good, something along the lines of young top 6 winger and 1st round pick or a top 4 D and high level prospect.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:Spezza it's already playing second fiddle to Turris.

Ryan, Turris, MacArthur, Stone, Zibanejad, Lazar, DaCosta, Hoffman plus whoever we get back in the trade.  They lack experience, for sure, but that's the makings of a pretty good top nine. And Greening and Smith can fill in from time to time.

I think it's one or the other of da costa or Hoffman - or neither.  Hoffman was pretty good in his time last year, but ideally you parlay him into a Stewart or someone like that.

I'm just saying we have a dozen eggs and we only need to make a 9-egg omelet.  Or a six-egg omelet, a small scrambled eggs and jam on the side.  Can you tell I missed breakfast?

All I'm saying is - and I'm sure you would agree, we need 3 lines that can not only push the play, but score. So, yes, we have Hoffman and da costa, but in my personal opinion they could easily not make this team. We need to start treating the third line with the same reverence as we do the second line - ie maybe one of da costa or Hoffman mixed with lazar and then someone we don't have in the system right now capable of scoring 20. Another MacArthur. I understand that's easier said than done, but that's what this team needs to do to take the next step.

I'm trying to convince myself that Hoffman can work, but truthfully I'm really not sure, nor should anyone be. We need goals to support the other lines, can he provide it?

To add to what Neely and ogle said, this new playoff format is gonna mess some good teams up in that they have to play their division rivals almost immediately. That's bad news for teams like St. Louis who will almost inevitably draw Chicago in the first 2 rounds, or Sj who again will draw la or Anaheim early.

In all honesty, I cannot see a scenario where St. Louis makes it out of the central anytime soon. If they add Spezza, maybe they have a fighting chance, although I doubt that. Anaheim is in the same boat. Yay, we beat Sj! Guess what...la's next.

This off season could be about those teams sizing up their divisions and trying to load up based on that. So...massive market for Spezza.

That's Ottawa's saving grace, the market for Spezza will be huge.

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:
Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

We're not going to get a lot for a one-year rental.  If we deal him to a team he's willing to sign with on a longer term deal then we will be able to negotiate better terms.  So it *does* matter a little what Jason wants.

Please tell me what that is based on.  If 3, 4 teams are bidding for him who have a window that is open now to win a cup and need to jump over Chicago and LA to do it  why would the Sens not be getting back good to great pieces?

If St.Louis and Anaheim are the only 2 teams involved they will be beating the crap out of each other to try and land him.  That said there are teams like Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix that want to get over a hump as well.  Spezza will have no shortage of teams will to pay for him.

"A lot" is not a very well-defined term. What if I had said "We're not going to get as much for a one-year rental ..."?

SpezDispenser wrote:
All I'm saying is - and I'm sure you would agree, we need 3 lines that can not only push the play, but score.  So, yes, we have Hoffman and da costa, but in my personal opinion they could easily not make this team.  We need to start treating the third line with the same reverence as we do the second line - ie maybe one of da costa or Hoffman mixed with lazar and then someone we don't have in the system right now capable of scoring 20.  Another MacArthur.  I understand that's easier said than done, but that's what this team needs to do to take the next step.

I'm trying to convince myself that Hoffman can work, but truthfully I'm really not sure, nor should anyone be. We need goals to support the other lines, can he provide it?  

If DaCosta and Hoffman don't make the team next year they we likely have even better players in those positions.

I've been banging my shoe on the table about a scoring 3rd line (as opposed to a checking third line) in order to bring up future top-six players for years. Perfect place for Lazar, for example -- smooth out that learning curve by introducing him to the NHL with managed ice time and softer competition.

I'd like to think that Zibanejad should be ready to leave the friendly confines of the 3rd line this year, and Stone probably already has (not a full season yet, though).

NEELY wrote:That's Ottawa's saving grace, the market for Spezza will be huge.

Funny how that "huge" market does not include Ottawa, though.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
All I'm saying is - and I'm sure you would agree, we need 3 lines that can not only push the play, but score.  So, yes, we have Hoffman and da costa, but in my personal opinion they could easily not make this team.  We need to start treating the third line with the same reverence as we do the second line - ie maybe one of da costa or Hoffman mixed with lazar and then someone we don't have in the system right now capable of scoring 20.  Another MacArthur.  I understand that's easier said than done, but that's what this team needs to do to take the next step.

I'm trying to convince myself that Hoffman can work, but truthfully I'm really not sure, nor should anyone be. We need goals to support the other lines, can he provide it?  

If DaCosta and Hoffman don't make the team next year they we likely have even better players in those positions.  

That's the plan, yeah. Da Costa has a shot though, Hoffman is really up in the air. I think that's the guy that gets dealt for the winger.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:
Who cares what he wants? I'm with Ev. Spezza made a trade request and submitted a list of teams he won't move to (presumably). Beyond that, he has absolutely no power to control his location. This isn't the HeatBag trade. Murray has a ton of mobility. No one is going to hold Jason's hand and tenderly ask him which option he prefers.

We're not going to get a lot for a one-year rental.  If we deal him to a team he's willing to sign with on a longer term deal then we will be able to negotiate better terms.  So it *does* matter a little what Jason wants.

Please tell me what that is based on.  If 3, 4 teams are bidding for him who have a window that is open now to win a cup and need to jump over Chicago and LA to do it  why would the Sens not be getting back good to great pieces?

If St.Louis and Anaheim are the only 2 teams involved they will be beating the crap out of each other to try and land him.  That said there are teams like Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix that want to get over a hump as well.  Spezza will have no shortage of teams will to pay for him.

"A lot" is not a very well-defined term. What if I had said "We're not going to get as much for a one-year rental ..."?

What makes the Spezza return interesting is the fact that the winning team is going to get a 60-100 point scorer for $4M, and an opportunity to re-sign him long-term. It's not like you're trying to trade someone for cap space reasons. At $4M a year, Spezza putting up 45 points is a steal in today's NHL, let alone if he ecliples 65-70 points.

I imagine step 1 in this process is allowing Spezza's agent to talk with potential trade targets. If there is an extension worked out, then Spezza's return will be that much more.

I think just about every team will express interest in Spezza - some will be very interested, others just kicking tires. How can't you express interest in him? He's got as much upside as he does downside and a lot of teams can mitigate his risk by giving 2nd/3rd line minutes and using him in offensive situations. I'd imagine when the dust settles Anaheim, St. Louis, and San Jose are the three big Western Conf teams interested in his services with Nashiville, Dallas, Phoenix, and Edmonton expressing serious interest as well. The Rangers will be in the mix, as will Florida, NYI, and Philly out of the East.

It is difficult to ascertain what we get back in a trade because each team will offer a different packahe. If you're a borderline contender you give up futures, a lesser top-six/top-four, and a pick. You go for a cup. If you're a team like Nashville/Edmonton, there are very few untouchables as they are rebuilding and can spare some parts if they know they can retain him long-term.