Jason Spezza - Trade Discussion

sandysensfan wrote:
Could mean a lot.  Maybe they want Spezza but Armstrong won't pay the price, OR it could be that some in the organization don't want Spezza at any price.

The next couple of weeks are going to be soooooo looonnnggg.

They wouldn't fire someone over that IMO. You don't want Spezza? Fine, go try to get Thornton or Kesler or whatever. They're a budget team though and perhaps they wanted to re-sign Spezza now and ran into trouble.

Or...maybe the ownership group was sick of losing in early rounds.

Sorry for the long post...

Ottawa needs a good, experienced top-six forward, and top-four defenceman who can control the tempo of a game. They have tons of 3rd/4th line depth and prospects ready to go, but no player ready to take the team to the next level or score that big game-changing goal.

I counted 15 players/prospects who can push for 12 NHL forward spots and 11 defencemen (8 on one-way contracts) pushing for 6 NHL defencemen spots.

The second a multi-player trade for Spezza happens, these numbers become even worse. It also hurts our ability to sign free-agents in that we're not going to sign a 9th defenceman or add UFA forwards without sending some players packing first.

I think Murray has to face reality in that having prospect 'depth' isn't going to get you anywhere when you have to sign players to multi-year contracts. Losing Spezza will hurt this team offensively and we're not good enough defensively to play a defensive style game.

In terms of asking for the same return as the Bobby Ryan trade, we gave up a top-six player who has accomplished nothing at the NHL level, an oft-injured forward prospect, and a 1st rd pick that should not have been a top-10 pick. So, what do we really expect in return for Spezza? If you want to see real value out of the Spezza trade, you need to add to it in order to ensure fair/comparable value. DSP, Sbisa, 1st rd pick just doesn't cut it for me.

I'd be trying to do the following:

To Anaheim: Spezza, Condra, Gryba
To Ottawa: Lindholm, Palmieri, 1st rd pick

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

- Sign Grabovski

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Palmieri-Grabovski-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Stone
Greening-Da Costa-Neil
Gazdic

Lindholm-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Phillips-Wiercioch
Boro

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Sorry for the long post...

Ottawa needs a good, experienced top-six forward, and top-four defenceman who can control the tempo of a game. They have tons of 3rd/4th line depth and prospects ready to go, but no player ready to take the team to the next level or score that big game-changing goal.

I counted 15 players/prospects who can push for 12 NHL forward spots and 11 defencemen (8 on one-way contracts) pushing for 6 NHL defencemen spots.

The second a multi-player trade for Spezza happens, these numbers become even worse. It also hurts our ability to sign free-agents in that we're not going to sign a 9th defenceman or add UFA forwards without sending some players packing first.

I think Murray has to face reality in that having prospect 'depth' isn't going to get you anywhere when you have to sign players to multi-year contracts. Losing Spezza will hurt this team offensively and we're not good enough defensively to play a defensive style game.

In terms of asking for the same return as the Bobby Ryan trade, we gave up a top-six player who has accomplished nothing at the NHL level, an oft-injured forward prospect, and a 1st rd pick that should not have been a top-10 pick. So, what do we really expect in return for Spezza? If you want to see real value out of the Spezza trade, you need to add to it in order to ensure fair/comparable value. DSP, Sbisa, 1st rd pick just doesn't cut it for me.

I'd be trying to do the following:

To Anaheim: Spezza, Condra, Gryba
To Ottawa: Lindholm, Palmieri, 1st rd pick

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

- Sign Grabovski

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Palmieri-Grabovski-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Stone
Greening-Da Costa-Neil
Gazdic

Lindholm-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Phillips-Wiercioch
Boro

Why doesn't DSP + 10th OV + another nice piece interest you? DSP is going to play and be a pain to play against for a long time. I agree with what you're saying in that the Sens need a veteran top 6 player, but at the same time, I really like the idea of the rumoured Anaheim or St.Louis trades for Spezza.

Also, there is no chance in the world Anaheim gives up Lindholm for anything, let alone Spezza. No chance. Let alone adding in Palmieri and a 1st. And...I'd ship Gryba off in that deal in a heartbeat, but otherwise I wouldn't move him. He's one of the brighter spots on our blueline right now.

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

That proposal is interesting however. Maybe have to add a little something to our end, maybe not, but I'd do that. Too bad giving up Smith, but that's life.

Good read: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/duhatschek-expect-anaheim-to-be-in-the-discussion-for-spezza-kesler-and-thornton/article19071158/

I don't even care about that 5 star veteran forward as much as I care about having 3 lines that can produce. 3 dangerous lines that can score and play a 2 way game.

We have the top line perfectly in place, we have Zibanejad in there, we have Stone - 2 young players I like a lot. Lazar appears to be ready. Now we need to fill in the blanks in the top 9 so that there's no question Smith, Greening and Neil are the 'energy line' or 4th line.

Can't stress that enough. If Smith or Neil are given any 3rd line minutes, Murray failed this summer. Greening I can stand on the 3rd line as a fill in, but otherwise he should be on the 4th line as well.

Would people here want Silfverberg back? I'm torn on it, I'd welcome him back, but I'm not sure if he's the piece needed - ie, big and aggressive.

Edmonton needs a big defenceman in the worst way possible. Cowen is a Saksatchewan boy and I don't think playing in Edmonton would be a problem. He could be a corner-piece for Edmonton for years to come. With RNH, Hall, Yakupov, Gagner, and Perron, Eberles become expendable. Edmonton's D would become significantly with Schultz, Cowen, Ference and Nurse being their core. Smith adds overall team toughness, and Prince rounds out the trade. Gazdic could fit in as the enforcer we no longer have on the team. 67 gp, 4 points 127 PIM.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Edmonton needs a big defenceman in the worst way possible. Cowen is a Saksatchewan boy and I don't think playing in Edmonton would be a problem. He could be a corner-piece for Edmonton for years to come. With RNH, Hall, Yakupov, Gagner, and Perron, Eberles become expendable. Edmonton's D would become significantly with Schultz, Cowen, Ference and Nurse being their core. Smith adds overall team toughness, and Prince rounds out the trade. Gazdic could fit in as the enforcer we no longer have on the team. 67 gp, 4 points 127 PIM.

Yeah, maybe. I'd do it from a Sens POV, but it's hard to say if that would work for Edmonton. Would be friggin nice though.

SpezDispenser wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Sorry for the long post...

Ottawa needs a good, experienced top-six forward, and top-four defenceman who can control the tempo of a game. They have tons of 3rd/4th line depth and prospects ready to go, but no player ready to take the team to the next level or score that big game-changing goal.

I counted 15 players/prospects who can push for 12 NHL forward spots and 11 defencemen (8 on one-way contracts) pushing for 6 NHL defencemen spots.

The second a multi-player trade for Spezza happens, these numbers become even worse. It also hurts our ability to sign free-agents in that we're not going to sign a 9th defenceman or add UFA forwards without sending some players packing first.

I think Murray has to face reality in that having prospect 'depth' isn't going to get you anywhere when you have to sign players to multi-year contracts. Losing Spezza will hurt this team offensively and we're not good enough defensively to play a defensive style game.

In terms of asking for the same return as the Bobby Ryan trade, we gave up a top-six player who has accomplished nothing at the NHL level, an oft-injured forward prospect, and a 1st rd pick that should not have been a top-10 pick. So, what do we really expect in return for Spezza? If you want to see real value out of the Spezza trade, you need to add to it in order to ensure fair/comparable value. DSP, Sbisa, 1st rd pick just doesn't cut it for me.

I'd be trying to do the following:

To Anaheim: Spezza, Condra, Gryba
To Ottawa: Lindholm, Palmieri, 1st rd pick

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

- Sign Grabovski

MacArthur-Turris-Ryan
Palmieri-Grabovski-Eberle
Hoffman-Zib-Stone
Greening-Da Costa-Neil
Gazdic

Lindholm-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Phillips-Wiercioch
Boro

Why doesn't DSP + 10th OV + another nice piece interest you?  DSP is going to play and be a pain to play against for a long time.  I agree with what you're saying in that the Sens need a veteran top 6 player, but at the same time, I really like the idea of the rumoured Anaheim or St.Louis trades for Spezza.

Also, there is no chance in the world Anaheim gives up Lindholm for anything, let alone Spezza.  No chance.  Let alone adding in Palmieri and a 1st.  And...I'd ship Gryba off in that deal in a heartbeat, but otherwise I wouldn't move him.  He's one of the brighter spots on our blueline right now.

To Edmonton: Cowen, Smith, Prince
To Ottawa: Eberle, Gazdic

That proposal is interesting however.  Maybe have to add a little something to our end, maybe not, but I'd do that.  Too bad giving up Smith, but that's life.

I don't know about giving up Smith. He is one of the very few forwards that plays with grit. I don't think he gets moved.
But I would love Eberle.

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't even care about that 5 star veteran forward as much as I care about having 3 lines that can produce.  3 dangerous lines that can score and play a 2 way game.

We have the top line perfectly in place, we have Zibanejad in there, we have Stone - 2 young players I like a lot.  Lazar appears to be ready.  Now we need to fill in the blanks in the top 9 so that there's no question Smith, Greening and Neil are the 'energy line' or 4th line.

Can't stress that enough.  If Smith or Neil are given any 3rd line minutes, Murray failed this summer.  Greening I can stand on the 3rd line as a fill in, but otherwise he should be on the 4th line as well.

What about Hoffman?

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Edmonton needs a big defenceman in the worst way possible. Cowen is a Saksatchewan boy and I don't think playing in Edmonton would be a problem. He could be a corner-piece for Edmonton for years to come. With RNH, Hall, Yakupov, Gagner, and Perron, Eberles become expendable. Edmonton's D would become significantly with Schultz, Cowen, Ference and Nurse being their core. Smith adds overall team toughness, and Prince rounds out the trade. Gazdic could fit in as the enforcer we no longer have on the team. 67 gp, 4 points 127 PIM.

Does Murray even want an enforcer anymore? Maybe that's why he is focused on getting a big physical player that can play on the 3rd line.

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I don't even care about that 5 star veteran forward as much as I care about having 3 lines that can produce.  3 dangerous lines that can score and play a 2 way game.

We have the top line perfectly in place, we have Zibanejad in there, we have Stone - 2 young players I like a lot.  Lazar appears to be ready.  Now we need to fill in the blanks in the top 9 so that there's no question Smith, Greening and Neil are the 'energy line' or 4th line.

Can't stress that enough.  If Smith or Neil are given any 3rd line minutes, Murray failed this summer.  Greening I can stand on the 3rd line as a fill in, but otherwise he should be on the 4th line as well.

What about Hoffman?

Traded in my scenario. For Chris Stewart - who I also forgot to put in there lol.

We could also sign Milan Michalek then sign fellow countryman Jiri Sekac.

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I further wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Sens made a good offer to Moulson.  And I really wouldn't be surprised if they made an offer to Legwand.  A nice 2C to push Zibanejad to 3C (or 2B).  A good pro, a guy who could help develop Zib and Lazar.  Nice option IMO.

Mason Raymond plays the game the right way as well.  He'd be a nice option.

There's no shortage of quality NHL players available.  People just call this UFA crop a bust because there are very few top tiered guys.

I really like Zibby but I don't think he's ready yet for the 2nd line centre.

Mason Raymond probably won't cost a lot, but will he be re-signed in Toronto.

I hope Lazar starts on the 3rd line wing with Zibby as his centre.  He can get PP time when needed.  I think I would sooner have Lazar standing in front of the net on the PP instead of Chris Neil.

What I find interesting this season is that UFA players get to talk to other teams on June 25th.
The draft is June 27th.
Some teams make UFA decisions based on what happens at the draft in way of trades.
Certainly going to be interesting 18 days leading up to the draft.
Shortly after the draft, the development camp.

Then you try to sign Legwand as a solution for 2C.  It's all about doing this by committee IMO.  If Zibanejad can't do 2C now, then when?  If we get Berglund back, he can play C as well, Lazar can play C as well, Da Costa is primed to do some good things in the NHL and he's a natural C.  Pageau as well.

I think you'll love seeing Lazar and/or Berglund standing in front of the net.  That's where it's at IMO.  Unless of course Berglund doesn't get sent over here, but I'd put it at even odds that he's a Senator sooner rather than later.  Perfectly describes what we're after, an obvious trade piece for St.Louis.  It fits like a glove.

I also wouldn't bet on Raymond signing in Toronto.  They have 20 mil for 8 players as of the right now - which is fine, but they have some huge holes to fill.  If they go after Thornton, you can bet Raymond becomes an afterthough, which is where some GM who knows and likes him can swoop in and make a solid offer.

Whoever this guy is:

"Nicholas Hand @Nick_Hand · Jun 6
Hearing rumblings of a major shakeup inside the #stlblues front office. #Developing"

His twitter profile says he's a former marketing manager for Peoria. A google search shows nothing relevant on the first results page. My guess? He's someone who's outside the type of circles that would have this sort of info.

What'zz the latezzt?

Spezza for Berglund, Paajarvi, prospect

That even true? 

MPS would be a decent player to add to Ottawa's roster IMO.  A guy who can be a shut down specialist in the mold of an Axelson.  I have always liked MPS as a player, his upside was never that high though and hopefully he can find the right role somewhere and if he's part of a Spezza deal then cool.

Ev wrote:Spezza for Berglund, Paajarvi, prospect

Why Paajarvi? Talk about redundant, I'll take a 1st rounder over him any day. He doesn't have the offense to fit into our top 9.