2014 Ottawa Senators Off Season Talk

SpezDispenser wrote:I think we add a million in that scenario.  I'm on my phone and find it annoying toggling.  1.5 in real money is my guess with silf in there.

That's about 3 million more than Gene would want to spend. I expect the payroll will be trimmed.

Man our offence is gonna be pretty terrible next season unless Ryan steps up

DOn't really care about the offense if they play a structured defensive game.

asq2 wrote:Man our offence is gonna be pretty terrible next season unless Ryan steps up

I just want three semi balanced lines. Besides, it's hard to say that yet before we know what's coming back for Spezza, not to mention otter moves.

That said, there's a chance it sucks without question lol

SpezDispenser wrote:

asq2 wrote:Man our offence is gonna be pretty terrible next season unless Ryan steps up

I just want three semi balanced lines.  Besides, it's hard to say that yet before we know what's coming back for Spezza, not to mention otter moves.  

That said, there's a chance it sucks without question lol

I mean I love Turris but it's a big mental pressure for the guy to go into the season being a number 1 or at worst number 2 option on offence for the whole year. Same goes for 21-year-old 54 career points Zibanejad to have that pressure as the number 2 centre and having higher calibre defenders key on him. I'm not sure we can count on MacArthur duplicating his success from this season, although hopefully he's turned a corner. Then we have (assuming Hemsky and Michalek walk) Stone as our No. 5 forward? That's a pretty inexperienced/young top-6. Thank goodness we have Karlsson, but it's probably gonna drive him crazy not having horses to run with.

Like you said, it depends on the return, and losing guys like Spezza and Hemsky and Michalek will almost certainly improve the defence, but frankly the realistic scenario is we then become the Jets or Coyotes. Even if we scratch our way into the playoffs, we'd have no chance against a lot of the teams out there, unless Karlsson and the goalies go full God mode. We risk ending up getting caught in a cycle of mediocrity -- which, realistically, we've been in for the last few years minus 2011 I guess -- except we're dumping rather than adding elite pieces (in Spezza anyway).

Just my opinion of course, but I feel like Spezza is getting scape-goated when the team actually has a lot of problems. And speculation about moving him is kind of overshadowing questions about what the actual direction of the team is, even though it should be bringing them to the fore more than ever. Frankly I think I'd be happiest with a deal around Edmonton's #3 pick, but I'm not sure either Edmonton or Spezza would approve.

Anyway, I hate making pessimistic posts like this because I have faith in the long-term potential of the young guys we have, but watching some of the Western playoffs....man....

Edit: if Spezza, Hemsky, Michalek and Corvo leave in the summer, that leaves us with only three players with more career points than Karlsson...

The direction of the team does not really matter until the Lazars, Puempels, Pageaus, Stones etc. are in their mid 20s. Until then we're just patching holes season after season.
Pretty sure Bryan Murray knows this even though he's trying to fool all of us into believing we can be in the playoffs every single year. We are seriously lacking in skill compared to the best teams out there IMO but skill does not really matter until you your organization implements a system and work ethic that every single new kid coming in will follow. How do you do that when your captain is the laziest player on the ice?
Like I said a million times I don't care if Spezza is THE problem or not, he is ONE of the problems so you solve it and you worry about the other problems one by one.

asq2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

asq2 wrote:Man our offence is gonna be pretty terrible next season unless Ryan steps up

I just want three semi balanced lines.  Besides, it's hard to say that yet before we know what's coming back for Spezza, not to mention otter moves.  

That said, there's a chance it sucks without question lol

I mean I love Turris but it's a big mental pressure for the guy to go into the season being a number 1 or at worst number 2 option on offence for the whole year. Same goes for 21-year-old 54 career points Zibanejad to have that pressure as the number 2 centre and having higher calibre defenders key on him. I'm not sure we can count on MacArthur duplicating his success from this season, although hopefully he's turned a corner. Then we have (assuming Hemsky and Michalek walk) Stone as our No. 5 forward? That's a pretty inexperienced/young top-6. Thank goodness we have Karlsson, but it's probably gonna drive him crazy not having horses to run with.

Like you said, it depends on the return, and losing guys like Spezza and Hemsky and Michalek will almost certainly improve the defence, but frankly the realistic scenario is we then become the Jets or Coyotes. Even if we scratch our way into the playoffs, we'd have no chance against a lot of the teams out there, unless Karlsson and the goalies go full God mode. We risk ending up getting caught in a cycle of mediocrity -- which, realistically, we've been in for the last few years minus 2011 I guess -- except we're dumping rather than adding elite pieces (in Spezza anyway).

Just my opinion of course, but I feel like Spezza is getting scape-goated when the team actually has a lot of problems. And speculation about moving him is kind of overshadowing questions about what the actual direction of the team is, even though it should be bringing them to the fore more than ever. Frankly I think I'd be happiest with a deal around Edmonton's #3 pick, but I'm not sure either Edmonton or Spezza would approve.

Anyway, I hate making pessimistic posts like this because I have faith in the long-term potential of the young guys we have, but watching some of the Western playoffs....man....

Edit: if Spezza, Hemsky, Michalek and Corvo leave in the summer, that leaves us with only three players with more career points than Karlsson...

Spezza is getting scape goated a bit but that doesn't mean him as the captain and him as the #1 center are not a huge issue.  When Spezza was having his career years he was supported by a ton of guys on one of the best teams in the NHL, he could cheat and get away with it, he could give 1/2 efforts and get away with, etc, etc.  On a team that's rebuilding and on a team that's young and impressionable his year (about 66.67% of it) was inexcusable.  He got into it with the coach, he sulked on the ice, he went to the GM to complain about his 7th coach in the NHL, and he refused to do what was being asked of everyone.

So what if the offense sucks next year?  Losing games 2-1, 3-2 is a lot more fun and more exciting to watch then losing games 5-1, 6-0, and getting embarrassed a lot of nights.  I'll say this about Ottawa's offense though, no offense with Karlsson moving the puck will struggle if the team plays with speed.

Right now you are going under the assumption that not only will Ottawa get nothing back for Spezza, they won't sign a single offensive player either.  Talk about a "sky is falling" approach to take as a fan.

Yeah, I think it's safe to assume that we'll add at least one decent offensive player. We have an entire second line to piece together after all (assuming Michalek, Spezza, and Hemsky are all gone). I think it's fair to say that Stone might be initially slotted in on a second line, but the C and LW spots are up for grabs.

I think Stone plays with Turris and MacArthur to be honest, no reason not to put him there.  The key now is finding a center that can play with Ryan and maybe you even resign Michalek and put him on the left side there.

LeKing wrote:The direction of the team does not really matter until the Lazars, Puempels, Pageaus, Stones etc. are in their mid 20s. Until then we're just patching holes season after season.
Pretty sure Bryan Murray knows this even though he's trying to fool all of us into believing we can be in the playoffs every single year. We are seriously lacking in skill compared to the best teams out there IMO but skill does not really matter until you your organization implements a system and work ethic that every single new kid coming in will follow. How do you do that when your captain is the laziest player on the ice?
Like I said a million times I don't care if Spezza is THE problem or not, he is ONE of the problems so you solve it and you worry about the other problems one by one.

I don't care that my house is on fire, but I *know* that that handle in the upstairs closet is loose so I'm going to fix it now.

OK, not the greatest analogy, but if Spezza is not "THE" (all-caps) problem then your biggest problem is finding out just exactly *WHAT* "THE" problem is. Moving Spezza may very well be the first move you end up making, anyway, but you need to find out what "THE" problem is before you can prioritize all the others.

Oh, and, by the way, moving Spezza *will* create problems you currently do not have, such as not being able to score 3 goals per game, losing more faceoffs than we win (I could be wrong, but if Zibanejad is taking 30-40% of our face offs I think it could spell trouble), the pressure of being the scape goat shifting to players who are not used to it.

Yes, the whole team pulling in the same direction will certainly improve their on-ice performance, but Spezza was not the only one pulling in a different direction. Move Spezza, sure, but then also sit down with Karlsson, Smith, Greening, Gryba, Cowen, Zibanejad, Lehner, Neil -- pretty much the whole team outside of the top line; they have *all* been part of the problem more than they have been part of the solution (OK, maybe I give Karlsson a bit of a pass, but I'd still sit down and have a talk with him).

NEELY wrote:I think Stone plays with Turris and MacArthur to be honest, no reason not to put him there.  The key now is finding a center that can play with Ryan and maybe you even resign Michalek and put him on the left side there.

Hey, I wonder if Ryan and Spezza would click. Might wanna give that a shot. For a few games, anyway.

Has Spezza been traded yet?

shabbs wrote:Has Spezza been traded yet?

Yes, apparently to Columbus. Or at least Simmer tweeted something:

Shawn Simpson ‏@TSNSimmer 2h

Another piece to a Spezza/CBJ Deal. Don Boyd is currently a Sens amateur scout. He drafted many on CBJ roster. Has intimate knowledge! #Key

"Spezza/CBJ Deal". Except I checked his recent tweets and there is nothing there. And I don't believe he said anything in the Simmer@7 segment on TGOR (I only caught the tail end of it).

Spezza to Columbus is a move that makes a lot of sense for both sides.

wprager wrote:

LeKing wrote:The direction of the team does not really matter until the Lazars, Puempels, Pageaus, Stones etc. are in their mid 20s. Until then we're just patching holes season after season.
Pretty sure Bryan Murray knows this even though he's trying to fool all of us into believing we can be in the playoffs every single year. We are seriously lacking in skill compared to the best teams out there IMO but skill does not really matter until you your organization implements a system and work ethic that every single new kid coming in will follow. How do you do that when your captain is the laziest player on the ice?
Like I said a million times I don't care if Spezza is THE problem or not, he is ONE of the problems so you solve it and you worry about the other problems one by one.

I don't care that my house is on fire, but I *know* that that handle in the upstairs closet is loose so I'm going to fix it now.

OK, not the greatest analogy, but if Spezza is not "THE" (all-caps) problem then your biggest problem is finding out just exactly *WHAT* "THE" problem is.  Moving Spezza may very well be the first move you end up making, anyway, but you need to find out what "THE" problem is before you can prioritize all the others.

Oh, and, by the way, moving Spezza *will* create problems you currently do not have, such as not being able to score 3 goals per game, losing more faceoffs than we win (I could be wrong, but if Zibanejad is taking 30-40% of our face offs I think it could spell trouble), the pressure of being the scape goat shifting to players who are not used to it.  

Yes, the whole team pulling in the same direction will certainly improve their on-ice performance, but Spezza was not the only one pulling in a different direction.  Move Spezza, sure, but then also sit down with Karlsson, Smith, Greening, Gryba, Cowen, Zibanejad, Lehner, Neil -- pretty much the whole team outside of the top line; they have *all* been part of the problem more than they have been part of the solution (OK, maybe I give Karlsson a bit of a pass, but I'd still sit down and have a talk with him).

Well, since you like history and stats, in the past 7 years the Sens made the 2nd round of the playoffs once, and who was not on the roster?

NEELY wrote:Spezza to Columbus is a move that makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Allegedly Spezza's NTC involved him providing a list of 10 teams he WOULDN'T accept a trade to. Chances are Columbus is on that list, but who knows? I imagine his no-trade list would look something like this:

Edmonton
Calgary
Winnipeg
Minnesota
Columbus
Buffalo
NY Islanders
New Jersey
Montreal (?)
Phoenix (?)

I re-tweeted about the Spezza rally, and the RSU guy favorited it thinking I was supporting it.

NEELY wrote:I think Stone plays with Turris and MacArthur to be honest, no reason not to put him there.  The key now is finding a center that can play with Ryan and maybe you even resign Michalek and put him on the left side there.

That's what I was thinking as well. Stone works with those two and Ryan and Zibanejad could find some nice chemistry. Better than putting Stone and Zibanejad together IMO, too green for a 2nd line.