Ottawa Senators TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

NEELY wrote:May as well put it in here... does Edmonton get desperate enough to make a deal involving say Gagne and Dubnyk for Anderson, Michalek, and Da Costa?  

Gagner and some Dung backup? No thanks. For those pieces I want something good.

Flo The Action wrote:

NEELY wrote:May as well put it in here... does Edmonton get desperate enough to make a deal involving say Gagne and Dubnyk for Anderson, Michalek, and Da Costa?  

how is this a good deal for us? Dubnyk is overpaid, we've no need for gagne. I could see how we might want to part with michalek but any deal with EDM has one of their 1st round picks of the last few years coming back.
to me it sounds more like a trade scenario proposed by a EDM fan.

Oh sorry, I forgot the iron man, Jason Spezza looks like he is close to his old form.

Spezza will be fine. How about we upgrade Michalek into a top line forward if we're gonna deal Anderson +.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:May as well put it in here... does Edmonton get desperate enough to make a deal involving say Gagne and Dubnyk for Anderson, Michalek, and Da Costa?  

Gagner and some Dung backup?  No thanks.  For those pieces I want something good.

Again, the Sens are going to need a center now and for the future if Spezza doesn't get back on track. Depth down the middle is how the Sens will eventually win now. They have built the blueline to the tits, they have their franchise goaltender in Lehner, now they need guys down the middle they can roll out one after another. Gagner helps with that and would be a suitable replacement for Spezza if he doesn't get back to form and if they part ways with him at the end of his contract if he loses the support of the organization.

Say what you want but that's a very realistic scenario right now, no one knows if Spezza is going to be where he was 2 years ago and smart money is he won't. Injuries don't get better after you're 30, they get worse.

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza will be fine.  How about we upgrade Michalek into a top line forward if we're gonna deal Anderson +.

Again, what is that comment based on? Personal belief? Is Spezza injury prone? Yes. Does he have an awful back? Yes. Do back injuries and conditions go away? No. Has he had multiple injuries to his knees? Yes. Not having an insurance policy for Spezza could be costly down the road if it's just Turris and Zibanejad down the middle going forward. Gagner isn't some scrub either.

Don't think it happens but saying Spezza will be fine is blind faith.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:May as well put it in here... does Edmonton get desperate enough to make a deal involving say Gagne and Dubnyk for Anderson, Michalek, and Da Costa?  

Gagner and some Dung backup?  No thanks.  For those pieces I want something good.

Again, the Sens are going to need a center now and for the future if Spezza doesn't get back on track.  Depth down the middle is how the Sens will eventually win now.  They have built the blueline to the tits, they have their franchise goaltender in Lehner, now they need guys down the middle they can roll out one after another.  Gagner helps with that and would be a suitable replacement for Spezza if he doesn't get back to form and if they part ways with him at the end of his contract if he loses the support of the organization.  

Say what you want but that's a very realistic scenario right now, no one knows if Spezza is going to be where he was 2 years ago and smart money is he won't.  Injuries don't get better after you're 30, they get worse.

I dunno...I think we have the players to survive well down the middle without Spezza. Turris, Zibanejad, Pageau, Smith is quite solid in its own right. I think the piece of the puzzle that we're missing is a top line winger to go with Spezza and Ryan if Michalek is declining.

Zibanejad is in the AHL right now... got beat out by Da Costa. Really going to count in him long term to be a #2? He might get there for sure but hardly a sure thing. Ganger is a sure #2 center and can play against any line in the NHL and be effective.

I'm SO SICK of hearing about a top line winger for Spezza, he has one and he's already getting move beside Turris. There's a reason for that. Spezza's best season in the past 5 years came with grinders in Greening and (healthy) Michalek. Do people just ignore what actually works in the NHL or just use the EA sports version of things to try and come up with their opinions?

Lines are built on pairs, the top pair is usually put with a grinding type top 9 forward on the wing. Either way, Spezza may not have the ability to do what he did and we'll know by years end if he can. Getting another center into Ottawa isn't the worst idea and it's probably a good one. Right now they have Pageau and Da Costa who are both struggling... Gagner is an easy upgrade and a 50-60 point center right now.

NEELY wrote:Zibanejad is in the AHL right now... got beat out by Da Costa.  Really going to count in him long term to be a #2?  He might get there for sure but hardly a sure thing.  Ganger is a sure #2 center and can play against any line in the NHL and be effective.  

I'm SO SICK of hearing about a top line winger for Spezza, he has one and he's already getting move beside Turris.  There's a reason for that.  Spezza's best season in the past 5 years came with grinders in Greening and (healthy) Michalek.  Do people just ignore what actually works in the NHL or just use the EA sports version of things to try and come up with their opinions?  

Lines are built on pairs, the top pair is usually put with a grinding type top 9 forward on the wing.  Either way, Spezza may not have the ability to do what he did and we'll know by years end if he can.  Getting another center into Ottawa isn't the worst idea and it's probably a good one.  Right now they have Pageau and Da Costa who are both struggling... Gagner is an easy upgrade and a 50-60 point center right now.  

Uh...yeah, Zibanejad is the number 2 guy without question. Who cares if he's in the AHL? Did you not see him play last year? He was really strong and he's only gonna get better. Yes, Gagner is decent - and yes, I wouldn't mind having him in the mix as the 3rd line C - or 2A or whatever, but at the cost of Anderson? I'd wait and see if I could get a big, burly top 6 winger. Or I'd put Greening there I guess.

Or I'd just wait and see how this plays out. Which is what I thought we were gonna do. Not sure why trade scenarios are coming in already when we all know we're not even close to the assessment period.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Zibanejad is in the AHL right now... got beat out by Da Costa.  Really going to count in him long term to be a #2?  He might get there for sure but hardly a sure thing.  Ganger is a sure #2 center and can play against any line in the NHL and be effective.  

I'm SO SICK of hearing about a top line winger for Spezza, he has one and he's already getting move beside Turris.  There's a reason for that.  Spezza's best season in the past 5 years came with grinders in Greening and (healthy) Michalek.  Do people just ignore what actually works in the NHL or just use the EA sports version of things to try and come up with their opinions?  

Lines are built on pairs, the top pair is usually put with a grinding type top 9 forward on the wing.  Either way, Spezza may not have the ability to do what he did and we'll know by years end if he can.  Getting another center into Ottawa isn't the worst idea and it's probably a good one.  Right now they have Pageau and Da Costa who are both struggling... Gagner is an easy upgrade and a 50-60 point center right now.  

Uh...yeah, Zibanejad is the number 2 guy without question.  Who cares if he's in the AHL?  Did you not see him play last year?  He was really strong and he's only gonna get better.  Yes, Gagner is decent - and yes, I wouldn't mind having him in the mix as the 3rd line C - or 2A or whatever, but at the cost of Anderson?  I'd wait and see if I could get a big, burly top 6 winger.  Or I'd put Greening there I guess.

Or I'd just wait and see how this plays out.  Which is what I thought we were gonna do.  Not sure why trade scenarios are coming in already when we all know we're not even close to the assessment period.

Tons of questions for a guy who isn't in the NHL right now. He didn't make it out of camp so not sure you are seeing things without the Sens beer goggles on.

As for Gagner at the cost of Anderson... you will not get a better return than that for him. Sens weak point right now is at center and the only one doing the job on a consistent basis is Turris. Spezza isn't in shape and can't keep up with other teams top lines, Da Costa is starting to show why he's a tweener like Ev predicted and a lot of other people, Pageau is struggling at times as well. Sens need a center and maybe that's Zibanejad (I would bet on it being that with common sense) but trading Anderson for center depth and for a 50-60 point guy at that is a very good return.

A grinding winger like Simmonds would also be a great return for Anderson who the Sens could use some more of.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Zibanejad is in the AHL right now... got beat out by Da Costa.  Really going to count in him long term to be a #2?  He might get there for sure but hardly a sure thing.  Ganger is a sure #2 center and can play against any line in the NHL and be effective.  

I'm SO SICK of hearing about a top line winger for Spezza, he has one and he's already getting move beside Turris.  There's a reason for that.  Spezza's best season in the past 5 years came with grinders in Greening and (healthy) Michalek.  Do people just ignore what actually works in the NHL or just use the EA sports version of things to try and come up with their opinions?  

Lines are built on pairs, the top pair is usually put with a grinding type top 9 forward on the wing.  Either way, Spezza may not have the ability to do what he did and we'll know by years end if he can.  Getting another center into Ottawa isn't the worst idea and it's probably a good one.  Right now they have Pageau and Da Costa who are both struggling... Gagner is an easy upgrade and a 50-60 point center right now.  

Uh...yeah, Zibanejad is the number 2 guy without question.  Who cares if he's in the AHL?  Did you not see him play last year?  He was really strong and he's only gonna get better.  Yes, Gagner is decent - and yes, I wouldn't mind having him in the mix as the 3rd line C - or 2A or whatever, but at the cost of Anderson?  I'd wait and see if I could get a big, burly top 6 winger.  Or I'd put Greening there I guess.

Or I'd just wait and see how this plays out.  Which is what I thought we were gonna do.  Not sure why trade scenarios are coming in already when we all know we're not even close to the assessment period.

Tons of questions for a guy who isn't in the NHL right now.  He didn't make it out of camp so not sure you are seeing things without the Sens beer goggles on.  

As for Gagner at the cost of Anderson... you will not get a better return than that for him.  Sens weak point right now is at center and the only one doing the job on a consistent basis is Turris.  Spezza isn't in shape and can't keep up with other teams top lines, Da Costa is starting to show why he's a tweener like Ev predicted and a lot of other people, Pageau is struggling at times as well.  Sens need a center and maybe that's Zibanejad (I would bet on it being that with common sense) but trading Anderson for center depth and for a 50-60 point guy at that is a very good return.

A grinding winger like Simmonds would also be a great return for Anderson who the Sens could use some more of.

Simmonds would be ideal, literally the ideal player for the Sens at this point. They got the elite level scorer this summer, now a guy like Simmonds would pretty much make this team a powerhouse going forward.

As for Zibanejad, I ask again, did you not see him play last year? That's rookie Zibanejad, he's gonna get better, it's not debatable, which makes him an ideal 2nd line C.

Zibanejad looked great last year and I think he's going to be a perfect fit for the Sens down the line but I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch either. He's not playing for the Sens right now and that can't be argued... Thurs night he might be but that has yet to be seen or any other date after that.

Spezza is anything but a sure thing at this point when you take into consideration his current game, his current age, the salary he will demand, and his history of injuries. Anyone who is saying "just give him time, he will work it out" is going on blind faith. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and he becomes an extremely productive and responsible player again but you can't just ignore what's in front of you right now either. There is a good possibility he has peaked and it's all downhill from here, just as good as him becoming a PPG and a solid all around player.

I don't think he's peaked as a talent. Or if he has, he peaked 2 seasons ago when he was 4th in scoring. He needs to get healthy, which is a lot easier said than done and he needs to get back to the game that Mac had him playing - which there's no choice in. Mac is an Adams winning coach, he's not gonna let Spezza Diddle around on the ice. He knows what he wants out of him, he knows what it's gonna take and he has daily meetings with him. So it's not like Spezza's game can go in the toilet. Mac wouldn't allow it. Take solace in the fact that we have a tremendous coach who hasn't let us down yet - not even once really - and then take solace in that he's got a lot to lose if he doesn't get Spezza playing the 2-way game that is directly responsible for puck-possession for us. He will, trust him and trust Spezza at this point. He's given us reason to not doubt him until the 20 game mark.

MacLean isn't going to make Spezza healthy, that's the point. Physically he may have peaked as well as his production. How many players have better years after they turn 30? Not a lot and the only one in recent memory who really took off after he was 30 was Alfie. Datsyuk is probably in that convo as well.

If people think Spezza can get back to the form he showed 2 years ago without question... I feel bad for them because again, that opinion is based on hope and nothing else. Knee injuries, groin injuries, re-occuring back problems... he is starting to fall apart like around the same age a lot of athletes with a history of injuries do in every sport. Spezza isn't the exception here, this tends to be the rule.

Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses. If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner. If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau. They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza. No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses.  If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner.  If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau.  They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.  

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza.  No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

You know the point I'm making though. Gagner is decent, but he and Turris are about equals - and frankly neither of them can replace what Spezza is capable of bringing. I guess you could put Gagner as the 3C and force Zibanejad to move to wing - which is what I see him as anyway.

Don't know why we're not looking at a winger to replace Michalek though - if he's gonna struggle as badly as he has the rest of his tenure here.

I'm also still very, very high on Pageau. Da Costa not as much obviously, but Pageau will work it out and be an awesome 3C IMO.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses.  If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner.  If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau.  They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.  

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza.  No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

You know the point I'm making though.  Gagner is decent, but he and Turris are about equals - and frankly neither of them can replace what Spezza is capable of bringing.  I guess you could put Gagner as the 3C and force Zibanejad to move to wing - which is what I see him as anyway.  

Don't know why we're not looking at a winger to replace Michalek though - if he's gonna struggle as badly as he has the rest of his tenure here.

Is capable or was capable? And even then I have already made the point that Stanley Cup winning teams don't usually have PPG centers, they have 3 strong centers that are complete and put up decent numbers. Bergeron and Toews don't hang their hate and entire careers on being a PPG guy. PPG guys (aside from Malkin and Crosby) don't win Stanley Cups. That's the Oilers thought process.

Gagner, Turris, and Zibanejad down the middle for 5-10 years is exactly the kind of depth you would need to win a cup if Spezza can't bring a solid and complete game.