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NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses.  If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner.  If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau.  They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.  

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza.  No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

You know the point I'm making though. Gagner is decent, but he and Turris are about equals - and frankly neither of them can replace what Spezza is capable of bringing. I guess you could put Gagner as the 3C and force Zibanejad to move to wing - which is what I see him as anyway.

Don't know why we're not looking at a winger to replace Michalek though - if he's gonna struggle as badly as he has the rest of his tenure here.

I'm also still very, very high on Pageau. Da Costa not as much obviously, but Pageau will work it out and be an awesome 3C IMO.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses.  If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner.  If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau.  They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.  

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza.  No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

You know the point I'm making though.  Gagner is decent, but he and Turris are about equals - and frankly neither of them can replace what Spezza is capable of bringing.  I guess you could put Gagner as the 3C and force Zibanejad to move to wing - which is what I see him as anyway.  

Don't know why we're not looking at a winger to replace Michalek though - if he's gonna struggle as badly as he has the rest of his tenure here.

Is capable or was capable? And even then I have already made the point that Stanley Cup winning teams don't usually have PPG centers, they have 3 strong centers that are complete and put up decent numbers. Bergeron and Toews don't hang their hate and entire careers on being a PPG guy. PPG guys (aside from Malkin and Crosby) don't win Stanley Cups. That's the Oilers thought process.

Gagner, Turris, and Zibanejad down the middle for 5-10 years is exactly the kind of depth you would need to win a cup if Spezza can't bring a solid and complete game.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Let's give it some time is the point, not rush into any judgements.

Well that's why you make moves... you make judgements along with educated guesses.  If the Sens move Anderson it's because they are judging Lehner.  If the Sens bring in another center it's because they are judging Spezza, Da Costa, and Pageau.  They judge their play and make an informed and educated decision.  

Either way, things have to play out for the season and probably next season as well to make an kind of decision on Spezza.  No way you give up on him but it's not the worst idea to have a backup plan.

You know the point I'm making though.  Gagner is decent, but he and Turris are about equals - and frankly neither of them can replace what Spezza is capable of bringing.  I guess you could put Gagner as the 3C and force Zibanejad to move to wing - which is what I see him as anyway.  

Don't know why we're not looking at a winger to replace Michalek though - if he's gonna struggle as badly as he has the rest of his tenure here.

Is capable or was capable?  And even then I have already made the point that Stanley Cup winning teams don't usually have PPG centers, they have 3 strong centers that are complete and put up decent numbers.  Bergeron and Toews don't hang their hate and entire careers on being a PPG guy.  PPG guys (aside from Malkin and Crosby) don't win Stanley Cups.  That's the Oilers thought process.  

Gagner, Turris, and Zibanejad down the middle for 5-10 years is exactly the kind of depth you would need to win a cup if Spezza can't bring a solid and complete game.  

Gagner's really, really soft. Put him into battle for the Cup and see him get eaten alive. Turris, Zibanejad and Smith/Pageau is much better IMO. Gagner's not a guy I like at all. Soft as tissue and easy to knock around.

Now...Simmonds is a dream winger in our top 6.

Gagner's soft? What's Spezza? What's Turris? Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL. Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

We had Simmonds already. His name was Nick Foligno.

SeawaySensFan wrote:We had Simmonds already. His name was Nick Foligno.

Simmonds has a lot more grind to his game than Foligno and is a much better skater.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:We had Simmonds already. His name was Nick Foligno.

Simmonds has a lot more grind to his game than Foligno and is a much better skater.

No two players are exactly alike but I stand by my comment while agreeing with yours somewhat.

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter. Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza. Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

Simmonds will also toss em if need be. He is absolutely a guy that can play with Spezza as well and make him a little better. Put Greening and Simmonds beside Spezza and then he probably has a chance because he will have a lot more room. Spezza needs heavy duty help now because as bad as he has been Michalek is the dead weight on that line.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on? Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner. Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

NEELY wrote:Simmonds will also toss em if need be.  He is absolutely a guy that can play with Spezza as well and make him a little better.  Put Greening and Simmonds beside Spezza and then he probably has a chance because he will have a lot more room.  Spezza needs heavy duty help now because as bad as he has been Michalek is the dead weight on that line.

Spezza is only playing in spurts right now so he's not really helping either. The game is there but I'm seeing a guy that's playing through pain.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on?  Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner.  Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

I don't think you watch Edmonton at all. Gagner can be moved off the puck like a pee wee player. Turris isn't your definition of a tough center, but he's improved his board play a lot. Spezza goes up against the best D-men in the league night in and night out and still puts ups points.

Have a watch of Edmonton some time. Gagner is talented, but he's exactly as I described him. Soft, soft, soft.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on?  Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner.  Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

I don't think you watch Edmonton at all.  Gagner can be moved off the puck like a pee wee player.  Turris isn't your definition of a tough center, but he's improved his board play a lot.  Spezza goes up against the best D-men in the league night in and night out and still puts ups points.

Have a watch of Edmonton some time.  Gagner is talented, but he's exactly as I described him.  Soft, soft, soft.  

Turris is evolving before our eyes right now. He's really turning into that 1st round blue chipper the Coyotes thought he was.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on?  Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner.  Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

I don't think you watch Edmonton at all.  Gagner can be moved off the puck like a pee wee player.  Turris isn't your definition of a tough center, but he's improved his board play a lot.  Spezza goes up against the best D-men in the league night in and night out and still puts ups points.

Have a watch of Edmonton some time.  Gagner is talented, but he's exactly as I described him.  Soft, soft, soft.  

And who in Edmonton's top 6 fights through anything? They have no support and 6 of the same player (more or less). Gagner isn't "soft" but he isn't Mike Richards either. Like Gagner and always have and his year last year doesn't exactly sway my opinion... he had a really solid year.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Simmonds will also toss em if need be.  He is absolutely a guy that can play with Spezza as well and make him a little better.  Put Greening and Simmonds beside Spezza and then he probably has a chance because he will have a lot more room.  Spezza needs heavy duty help now because as bad as he has been Michalek is the dead weight on that line.

Spezza is only playing in spurts right now so he's not really helping either. The game is there but I'm seeing a guy that's playing through pain.

Don't think there is any question about that and that's why he needs someone to do a little dirty work. Michalek isn't the who can or is willing (one or the other) to do that right now and going forward.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on?  Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner.  Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

I don't think you watch Edmonton at all.  Gagner can be moved off the puck like a pee wee player.  Turris isn't your definition of a tough center, but he's improved his board play a lot.  Spezza goes up against the best D-men in the league night in and night out and still puts ups points.

Have a watch of Edmonton some time.  Gagner is talented, but he's exactly as I described him.  Soft, soft, soft.  

Turris is evolving before our eyes right now. He's really turning into that 1st round blue chipper the Coyotes thought he was.

Gagner has had an extremely similar development curve but he is somehow considered soft in this convo...? Turris is going to turn out to be the better player IMO and will look a lot of Boston's #37 when all is said and done. I don't even think it's out of the question he is the sure fire #1 center in Ottawa before the year is up either.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Gagner's soft?  What's Spezza?  What's Turris?  Gagner isn't any softer than a lot of other centers int he NHL.  Again, not sure what games you watch sometimes.

He's soft as butter.  Turris is much tougher IMO, so is Spezza.  Really don't find Gagner tough at all - like...at all.

And wtf is that opinion based on?  Turris isn't tougher than anyone really but he can still play the game at a very high level, same with Gagner.  Jesus man, take off the blinders sometimes.

I don't think you watch Edmonton at all.  Gagner can be moved off the puck like a pee wee player.  Turris isn't your definition of a tough center, but he's improved his board play a lot.  Spezza goes up against the best D-men in the league night in and night out and still puts ups points.

Have a watch of Edmonton some time.  Gagner is talented, but he's exactly as I described him.  Soft, soft, soft.  

And who in Edmonton's top 6 fights through anything?  They have no support and 6 of the same player (more or less).  Gagner isn't "soft" but he isn't Mike Richards either.  Like Gagner and always have and his year last year doesn't exactly sway my opinion... he had a really solid year.

My opinion on Gagner won't change until I see him not bounced off pucks like my 8 year old nephew. He's got talent, but why do you want a 1-2 punch of Turris and Gagner? Talk about a team that can be shut down in the playoffs. We need strength - and barring that, we need skill like Spezza. Again, why can't you wait and see how it plays out with Spez? Why must we discuss trades that likely won't happen?

And if we're to make a transaction, can't we package Andy with someone else to get Eberle? That's the guy you want from Edmonton. Not sure who else is even worth discussing - you're not getting Hall, Yakupov may or may not be a head case, RNH isn't going anywhere and he's tiny and injury prone.