Senators placed on NHL watch list - the story continues

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:Makes sense for people in the south end of the city (where the city is really expanding now) and the people in the East end as well especially once the Hunt Club exit is good to go off the 417.  The location makes sense, at least as much as any place else other than DT but what they are doing to it is a joke.  

The location doesn't make sense to me though.  You want to talk about general location, fine but the raceway is literally middle of nowhere. It's a drag going out there, there's little to no civilzation around there except a few homes.  Why the city of Ottawa wants that land to be their one and only casino is beyond me, but yeah it's some politics all right.

Can't be in the middle of no where because it's a 5 min drive for me so that is simply not true.  CTC is in the middle of no where.  You might want to take a trip to the south end of the city sometime soon because that whole area is now residential.

How many casinos are built in a 'residential' area? It's growing but that's not what I'd call a hotbed. It's a 5 min drive from findlay creek, it's still far from orleans. And it's not enticing to anyone to drive out there. You're a little biased and I get that, but trust me most people would classify a casino at RCR being in the middle of nowhere....there's forest and trees around. Then compare to lac leamy. There is no way in hell ppl will choose RCR unless they are avid horse racing gamblers.

The fact that they are not even redeveloping or re-designing RCR is a joke and an insult because every one knows this will not help bring anymore significant revenue back to the province.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Yah, I like harness racing to be honest and enjoy a night out at RCR once in a while as my family used to own horses but anyone who can't see it's a dying sports is out to lunch.  I have no idea what the deal is with harness racing and the province... maybe it's a bigger industry than I believe it is and it affects more people than I think it would as well.

I imagine a lot of people would be out of work and a lot of horses would be destined for the glue factory if the industry were to outright die.

They must have one hell of a team of lobbyists.

That made me sad

Can't melnyk just build a damn casino AND add a raceway since he's such a horseman?

NEELY wrote:
Yah, I like harness racing to be honest and enjoy a night out at RCR once in a while as my family used to own horses but anyone who can't see it's a dying sports is out to lunch.  I have no idea what the deal is with harness racing and the province... maybe it's a bigger industry than I believe it is and it affects more people than I think it would as well.

Mayor Watson. A few jockeys in bright outfits. Pictures.

Michallica wrote:

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Yah, I like harness racing to be honest and enjoy a night out at RCR once in a while as my family used to own horses but anyone who can't see it's a dying sports is out to lunch.  I have no idea what the deal is with harness racing and the province... maybe it's a bigger industry than I believe it is and it affects more people than I think it would as well.

I imagine a lot of people would be out of work and a lot of horses would be destined for the glue factory if the industry were to outright die.

They must have one hell of a team of lobbyists.

That made me sad

Can't melnyk just build a damn casino AND add a raceway since he's such a horseman?

He's also a horse's a##.

Michallica wrote:
That made me sad

Can't melnyk just build a damn casino AND add a raceway since he's such a horseman?

He has partners lined up who want to build a casino, hotels and retail around the CTC(if I understand his plan). That plan doesn't include a racetrack. Besides they're a money pit why would he want one there(he has a poor NHL team that needs money already)? I think even he lost money on horse racing and had to sell a bunch of his horses.

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:Makes sense for people in the south end of the city (where the city is really expanding now) and the people in the East end as well especially once the Hunt Club exit is good to go off the 417.  The location makes sense, at least as much as any place else other than DT but what they are doing to it is a joke.  

The location doesn't make sense to me though.  You want to talk about general location, fine but the raceway is literally middle of nowhere. It's a drag going out there, there's little to no civilzation around there except a few homes.  Why the city of Ottawa wants that land to be their one and only casino is beyond me, but yeah it's some politics all right.

Can't be in the middle of no where because it's a 5 min drive for me so that is simply not true.  CTC is in the middle of no where.  You might want to take a trip to the south end of the city sometime soon because that whole area is now residential.

How many casinos are built in a 'residential' area?  It's growing but that's not what I'd call a hotbed.  It's a 5 min drive from findlay creek, it's still far from orleans.  And it's not enticing to anyone to drive out there.  You're a little biased and I get that, but trust me most people would classify a casino at RCR being in the middle of nowhere....there's forest and trees around.  Then compare to lac leamy.  There is no way in hell ppl will choose RCR unless they are avid horse racing gamblers.  

The fact that they are not even redeveloping or re-designing RCR is a joke and an insult because every one knows this will not help bring anymore significant revenue back to the province.

Stones throw from the airport is also a great location which RCR is. I agree though not redeveloping it an insult and I don't agree with it in any kind of way.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Yah, I like harness racing to be honest and enjoy a night out at RCR once in a while as my family used to own horses but anyone who can't see it's a dying sports is out to lunch.  I have no idea what the deal is with harness racing and the province... maybe it's a bigger industry than I believe it is and it affects more people than I think it would as well.

I imagine a lot of people would be out of work and a lot of horses would be destined for the glue factory if the industry were to outright die.

They must have one hell of a team of lobbyists.

That an awful argument because a lot of them are killed anyways.

Also, the only places that are in the middle of no where are the places where people aren't... build a casino and there will be people and industry around it and then it won't be in the middle on no where. But the way RCR is going it's just going to be a collection of white trash gambling their pensions away.

wprager wrote:Madely had Jim Watson on this morning.  I think he let him off easy.  At one point Watson was saying how Melnyk has asked for -- and received -- preferential tax rates; maybe Madely should have brought up the overpass/interchange fiasco -- it wasn't on Melnyk's watch, but the city refused to build/service the overpass and interchange, but when it was built they re-assessed the value of the arena and increased the taxes.  Shameful behavior from the city.  Then Watson mentioned how Edmonton is ponying up $300-400M for a new arena for the Oilers, and how he himself is not in favor of using public money (tax revenues) like that -- I think Madely should have, at that point, asked him how the RCR renovations will be funded, including widening of the access road, and whether the property will be re-assessed to raise taxes.

I am so fed up with Ottawa City Council and the current mayor.  

Think about this... since March 2013 the RCR Slots are not allowed to financilly support the Harness (Horse) Racing. Now we know that the Harness Racing Industry can't fund itself.. Who is funding it? My guess is the Ottawa taxpayers.. who else?

Now Casino's can provide funding for Horse Racing. So Watson is rushing to get the 21 gaming tables in.. which will reclassifed RCR as a Casino.. therefore the funding is back to the Raceway.

Right about now.. I'm really questioning the integrity of our Mayor... if you get my drift.

If it smells bad..... it usually is bad.

This whole Casino choice is the save the Harness Racing in Ottawa... and the local farmers that are financially part of it...

It's for the good of the few... NOT the City as a whole. And it certainly is not the site for a Casino that OLG would hoped will compete with CLL.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:Madely had Jim Watson on this morning.  I think he let him off easy.  At one point Watson was saying how Melnyk has asked for -- and received -- preferential tax rates; maybe Madely should have brought up the overpass/interchange fiasco -- it wasn't on Melnyk's watch, but the city refused to build/service the overpass and interchange, but when it was built they re-assessed the value of the arena and increased the taxes.  Shameful behavior from the city.  Then Watson mentioned how Edmonton is ponying up $300-400M for a new arena for the Oilers, and how he himself is not in favor of using public money (tax revenues) like that -- I think Madely should have, at that point, asked him how the RCR renovations will be funded, including widening of the access road, and whether the property will be re-assessed to raise taxes.

I am so fed up with Ottawa City Council and the current mayor.  

This is why Ottawa has been such a low-rent minor-league City for so long. No vision whatsoever. The Gene should have incorporated something related to bicycles in his plan. That would have gotten an immediate rubber-stamp.

Or something of Culture like an art gallery or Opera House..

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Holy hell, I can't wait for the Dung storm that will occur when a location for a new arena needs to be picked.  

Hahaha the thought is scary but if the NCC doesn't want any development downtown then the south end of the city (which is a lot more central than Kanata) will be the place it goes.  

Both sites are about 20 min from my home in Barrhaven.. so makes no difference to me.

The one thing CTC has that RCR doesn't is the major highway right at it.. which will be 4 lanes around Kanata I think to start the season. And plenty more access roads as well... RCR has 1..

CTC is in a rapidly developing part of the City.. both residential and commercial -- can't say that about RCR.

RCR site will cost the taxpayers to upgrade the roads/add transit, lighting, etc... CTC site costs us nothing.

The # of jobs created at RCR with the 21 gaming tables? 20 people.. maybe. Increase in tax revenue? Doubt that.

The # of jobs at CTC site when fully completed development? Maybe up to 1,000? Increase tax revenue? Yes, absolutely.

Economically the CTC just makes more sense for the City... and Council should consider that.

OLG wants a big Casino to compete with Lac Leamy. RCR doesn't do that.

Now for a lot of people CTC is as far west as RCR is south.. but on a lot of nights CTC has at least 10,000 or more people on the premises to try to draw some of that to it's Casino.

Sorry, RCR makes no sense at all in any way.. other than to save the Harness Racing Industry.

Doesn't the Mayor take an oath, when he assumes his office, to do his best for the people he is representing? Impeach him.... this Casino matter... he has failed to do just that..

NEELY wrote:Truth be told, if and when the Sens need a new arena I wouldn't be shocked to see it located somewhere around that general area as well (the south end).

The City won't fund the new arena. If Euge gets his Casino (if OLG opens an RFP for more parties than the ridiculous one from the City) then maybe he can build his new arena... If not... he won't have the $$ to build the arena himself.. and he certainly won't get anything from the Prov...

An arena life in the NHL is supposed to be something like 30 yrs.. CTC is now at 20 yrs..

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Holy hell, I can't wait for the Dung storm that will occur when a location for a new arena needs to be picked.  

Hahaha the thought is scary but if the NCC doesn't want any development downtown then the south end of the city (which is a lot more central than Kanata) will be the place it goes.  

Both sites are about 20 min from my home in Barrhaven.. so makes no difference to me.

The one thing CTC has that RCR doesn't is the major highway right at it.. which will be 4 lanes around Kanata I think to start the season.  And plenty more access roads as well... RCR has 1..

CTC is in a rapidly developing part of the City.. both residential and commercial -- can't say that about RCR.

RCR site will cost the taxpayers to upgrade the roads/add transit, lighting, etc... CTC site costs us nothing.

The # of jobs created at RCR with the 21 gaming tables?  20 people.. maybe.  Increase in tax revenue?  Doubt that.

The # of jobs at CTC site when fully completed development?  Maybe up to 1,000?  Increase tax revenue?  Yes, absolutely.

Economically the CTC just makes more sense for the City... and Council should consider that.

OLG wants a big Casino to compete with Lac Leamy.  RCR doesn't do that.

Now for a lot of people CTC is as far west as RCR is south.. but on a lot of nights CTC has at least 10,000 or more people on the premises to try to draw some of that to it's Casino.

Sorry, RCR makes no sense at all in any way.. other than to save the Harness Racing Industry.

Doesn't the Mayor take an oath, when he assumes his office, to do his best for the people he is representing?  Impeach him.... this Casino matter... he has failed to do just that..

South end will have light rail before Kanata, waaaaaaaay before and that's a huge deal. It's more excessable by car for sure but roads are easy to build and there is lots of space in the south end. It's the way Ottawa is being built right now from Barhaven and the bridge across the Rideau (that will never be built) and widening Albion road to 4 lanes.

But it all comes back to the joke of a proposal of 21 gaming tables only... if they were expanding, building up something that could really put its mark on Ottawa I would be more than on board obviously, but they aren't. If that's the case, give it to Melnyk because at least then everyone will get something out of it vs right now where no one gets a thing.

NEELY wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Holy hell, I can't wait for the Dung storm that will occur when a location for a new arena needs to be picked.  

Hahaha the thought is scary but if the NCC doesn't want any development downtown then the south end of the city (which is a lot more central than Kanata) will be the place it goes.  

Both sites are about 20 min from my home in Barrhaven.. so makes no difference to me.

The one thing CTC has that RCR doesn't is the major highway right at it.. which will be 4 lanes around Kanata I think to start the season.  And plenty more access roads as well... RCR has 1..

CTC is in a rapidly developing part of the City.. both residential and commercial -- can't say that about RCR.

RCR site will cost the taxpayers to upgrade the roads/add transit, lighting, etc... CTC site costs us nothing.

The # of jobs created at RCR with the 21 gaming tables?  20 people.. maybe.  Increase in tax revenue?  Doubt that.

The # of jobs at CTC site when fully completed development?  Maybe up to 1,000?  Increase tax revenue?  Yes, absolutely.

Economically the CTC just makes more sense for the City... and Council should consider that.

OLG wants a big Casino to compete with Lac Leamy.  RCR doesn't do that.

Now for a lot of people CTC is as far west as RCR is south.. but on a lot of nights CTC has at least 10,000 or more people on the premises to try to draw some of that to it's Casino.

Sorry, RCR makes no sense at all in any way.. other than to save the Harness Racing Industry.

Doesn't the Mayor take an oath, when he assumes his office, to do his best for the people he is representing?  Impeach him.... this Casino matter... he has failed to do just that..

South end will have light rail before Kanata, waaaaaaaay before and that's a huge deal.  It's more excessable by car for sure but roads are easy to build and there is lots of space in the south end.  It's the way Ottawa is being built right now from Barhaven and the bridge across the Rideau (that will never be built) and widening Albion road to 4 lanes.  

But it all comes back to the joke of a proposal of 21 gaming tables only... if they were expanding, building up something that could really put its mark on Ottawa I would be more than on board obviously, but they aren't.  If that's the case, give it to Melnyk because at least then everyone will get something out of it vs right now where no one gets a thing.

Yes... light rail is coming -- I'll probably be dead and buried before it is finished. But those road improvements... IF mainly for RCR are going to cost the taxpayers a lot.. Whereas the CTC will most likely cost nothing.

We don't know that for sure.. because the Council and the Committee in charge of the Casino item... didn't bother doing any economical research... The only research done was by Dr. Levy et al... as to how bad gambling is for us...

I think we can all agree on this, the whole situation has been handled awfully and the mistakes just keep piling up.

I'm 30 and I feel the same way about light rail.

Maybe I am wrong but I got the impression that most (if not all) the councilors got feedback that the majority of people don't want a casino in this city at all(CLL is fine) and if we must have a casino then just expand RCR.

If Watson & co. got a flood of letters and phone calls demanding a casino at CTC or at least an open bidding process then I am sure they would do so if they want any chance at re-election.

sandysensfan wrote:

NEELY wrote:Truth be told, if and when the Sens need a new arena I wouldn't be shocked to see it located somewhere around that general area as well (the south end).

The City won't fund the new arena.  If Euge gets his Casino (if OLG opens an RFP for more parties than the ridiculous one from the City) then maybe he can build his new arena... If not... he won't have the $$ to build the arena himself.. and he certainly won't get anything from the Prov...

An arena life in the NHL is supposed to be something like 30 yrs..  CTC is now at 20 yrs..

First of all, the CTC is still a teenager (opened in 1996). Second, the new arenas starting popping up all over the NHL right around the late '90s, although there are some older. For example, the Saddledome opened in 1983. For most of the modern arenas we don't yet have the data to know how long they will last. The Saddledome is 30 years old and just went through a flood that had it underwater to row 10 or higher, but they have no intention on gutting it and rebuilding. Most others were built in the last 20 years, with better materials/equipment/processes.

Rexall place opened in 1974 and they are replacing it in the next few years. Maybe that's where the 30-year thing came from? Thing is, are they replacing it because of age or size (under 17,000)?

MSG was built in '68 and is, currently, the oldest. They did major renovation not too long ago, though.

The Forum in Montreal opened in 1924 and cost $20M (in today's dollars); damned unions   It closed in 1996, but the biggest reason for the new arena was not that the old one was 72 years old, but that there was no way to increase capacity beyond just under 18,000 (and that's including 1,600 standing room).

The CTC is in great shape. I don't see any major renovations that need to be done. Not sure about things like the Zamboni, or the ice making plant, but the building itself is solid.

Hoags wrote:Maybe I am wrong but I got the impression that most (if not all) the councilors got feedback that the majority of people don't want a casino in this city at all(CLL is fine) and if we must have a casino then just expand RCR.

If Watson & co. got a flood of letters and phone calls demanding a casino at CTC or at least an open bidding process then I am sure they would do so if they want any chance at re-election.

You kidding? He's a liberal.