SENS OFF-SEASON TALK 2013

Ev wrote:if the sens got Ryan and we were perennial contenders and Ryan saw that Philly still sucks the big one, why would he want to go to Philly?

The by-yearly promise that 'the team's headed in the right direction' and you could come in and be a big part of it! OMG!

I'm finally ready to concede that I think it's the Oilers that we're gonna deal with.

1.Murray loves dealing with new GMs

2.They have an abundance of forwards and a below average D.

3.They might view Yakupov for Cowen as very favourable for where they want to get to. We might think the same about Yakupov - although, I'd obviously rather get Eberle or Hall, I doubt that's an option.

4.It's none of the young guys and we get Hemsky for relatively cheap, although I could see it being more than we think it would be

SpezDispenser wrote:

Ev wrote:if the sens got Ryan and we were perennial contenders and Ryan saw that Philly still sucks the big one, why would he want to go to Philly?

The by-yearly promise that 'the team's headed in the right direction' and you could come in and be a big part of it! OMG!

During the 2 years that he's here he will see for himself that the team's headed in the right direction smart Donkey.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'm finally ready to concede that I think it's the Oilers that we're gonna deal with.

1.Murray loves dealing with new GMs

2.They have an abundance of forwards and a below average D.

3.They might view Yakupov for Cowen as very favourable for where they want to get to. We might think the same about Yakupov - although, I'd obviously rather get Eberle or Hall, I doubt that's an option.

4.It's none of the young guys and we get Hemsky for relatively cheap, although I could see it being more than we think it would be

Yakupov is an unproven quantity. He's Russian. I don't think Ottawa is that much of a preferred destination over Edmonton for him -- from the p.o.v. of staying longer. I'd rather hang on to Cowen and use Wiercioch+ for a lower-profile player.

Remember, *one* years ago the Sens were top-4 scoring in the league. This year was an anomaly because of the injuries to Karlsson and Spezza. True, the year before was a bit of an anomaly with Michalek staying healthy for 77 games, but since then we've picked up Pageau, Conacher, Silfverberg and Zibanejad, while losing Foligno, Butler, Konopka, Regin, Winch -- really, the only one we lost that needed replacing is Foligno (47 points).

Zibanejad scored at a 40-point pace (82 games) this past season as a rookie with no Karlsson or Spezza in the lineup. You'd think he could do a bit better if those two are healthy? And Silfverberg was on a 32-point pace, with Conacher and Pageau a little better than that.

Sure, all of those could hit a sophomore slump, but they not replacing players who were lighting it up (Foligno excluded) so not much is really required from them for the team to repeat their totals from 2011-12.

Ev wrote:if the sens got Ryan and we were perennial contenders and Ryan saw that Philly still sucks the big one, why would he want to go to Philly?

Who says that happens? Nothing is guaranteed in the NHL.. You can't so now that the Sens will be perennial contenders.. they probably will but injuries happen, players leave, Melnyk may not spend... etc.. and we can't say Philly will suck in the future.. All they need is goaltending and a couple of good defensemen...

SpezDispenser wrote:I'm finally ready to concede that I think it's the Oilers that we're gonna deal with.

1.Murray loves dealing with new GMs

2.They have an abundance of forwards and a below average D.

3.They might view Yakupov for Cowen as very favourable for where they want to get to. We might think the same about Yakupov - although, I'd obviously rather get Eberle or Hall, I doubt that's an option.

4.It's none of the young guys and we get Hemsky for relatively cheap, although I could see it being more than we think it would be

No way I give up Cowen for Yakupov...

Not saying thatvwould be it. Maybe murray pushes hard for eberle.

sandysensfan wrote:

Ev wrote:if the sens got Ryan and we were perennial contenders and Ryan saw that Philly still sucks the big one, why would he want to go to Philly?

Who says that happens? Nothing is guaranteed in the NHL.. You can't so now that the Sens will be perennial contenders.. they probably will but injuries happen, players leave, Melnyk may not spend... etc.. and we can't say Philly will suck in the future.. All they need is goaltending and a couple of good defensemen...

Not sure what you're suggesting then... do nothing? Get a top player signed to 5 years? Is that even possible?
The Sens may become contenders with Ryan, the Sens may also Dung the bed.
Ryan may want to stay here, he also may want to go to Philly.

While you guys discuss the what ifs and buts, in the meantime Bryan Murray will do his job and give this team team the chance the best chance to win and Bobby Ryan helps with that big time.

sandysensfan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'm finally ready to concede that I think it's the Oilers that we're gonna deal with.

1.Murray loves dealing with new GMs

2.They have an abundance of forwards and a below average D.

3.They might view Yakupov for Cowen as very favourable for where they want to get to. We might think the same about Yakupov - although, I'd obviously rather get Eberle or Hall, I doubt that's an option.

4.It's none of the young guys and we get Hemsky for relatively cheap, although I could see it being more than we think it would be

No way I give up Cowen for Yakupov...

So you have maybe the best pairing in the NHL with Karlsson/Methot and you wouldn't give up Cowen for perhaps the most natural goal scorer to come into the league since Ovechkin... sure thing.

Basically what you are saying is you are only willing to give up something decent (and not Cowen) for a guy that is signed long term, has already had great years in the NHL, and even then at a minimal cost... if only the NHL worked like that.

I would give up Cowen for Yakupov right away and I'm not even that high on Yakupov because of the Russian thing. Fact is to this point Cowen's development has been stalled by injuries since he was 17 which is a big concern. He's had 2 major surgeries and he isn't even 23, how is that a good thing? Yah, he has every single tool and a pretty good tool box to be an elite NHL D man but he's also injury prone and if you say he isn't you are lying to yourself. The way he plays the game he may continue to be an injury case and being as big as he is without all the muscle on top or a chance to get that muscle and strength because he is always rehabbing... he may never get to the level of *sigh... Chara*.

That's the other thing, people calling Cowen the next Chara or even in that relm. NO ONE in the NHL has the work ethic of Chara, no one. That's one of the reasons he left Ottawa was because he worked so hard it pissed other people in that room off aside from Alfi. Chara also never had injury problems let alone major parts of the body like hips and knees.

I'm not saying Cowen should be traded but he's Ottawa's #3 D man and will be for some time, he will never play the heavy mins like Chara does because of Karlsson. Fact is, if the right deal comes along and it's a move that makes your team better now and for some years down the line and Cowen is the center piece, you make it. Stop getting caught up in comparisons, home town love, and irrational thinking, it makes your arguments look weak because they are.

Cowen for Yakupov? Done... and anyone that wouldn't, I would suggest watching another team other than the Sens.

I wouldn't call Cowen injury prone. Yes 2 major surgeries but they were different and years apart. I don't think he will become a Spezza.

Anyways I wouldn't trade him at all but obviously if the right price came along. We don't have anybody like him in the organization.

Ev wrote:I wouldn't call Cowen injury prone. Yes 2 major surgeries but they were different and years apart. I don't think he will become a Spezza.

Anyways I wouldn't trade him at all but obviously if the right price came along. We don't have anybody like him in the organization.

He's 22 and had 2 big time injuries... it's not like this is bicep surgery or a broken jaw, these are things that have slowed down his on ice play and development. By no means am I saying this guy can't be a beast or an NHL all-star but ignoring everything that has happened and worrying about his future based on his past, these are discussions they are 100% having if the right deal comes along.

I like Cowen a lot and his playoff shouldn't be held against him at all because fact is he played less than a 1/4 of a season and hit a wall. That said, there are red flags to him and he isn't a guy that shouldn't be considered to move if like you said, the right price came along.

Karlsson is the only untouchable on this team AFAIC

NEELY wrote:

That's the other thing, people calling Cowen the next Chara or even in that relm. NO ONE in the NHL has the work ethic of Chara, no one. That's one of the reasons he left Ottawa was because he worked so hard it pissed other people in that room off aside from Alfi. Chara also never had injury problems let alone major parts of the body like hips and knees.
.

My comparison to Chara was more that he is the closest thing we have to do Big Z (mostly in terms of size). Obviously Chara is a special case due to his work ethic etc but Cowen comes the closest due to size and skill.

Cowen is the only intimidating D-man we have(apart from Gryba I suppose), his hit on Pacioretty in Game 1 had a big impact on the series as MaxiPad disappeared for the rest of the series (and I think he was injured). Methot is physical and hipchecks people from time to time(and usually gets penalized for it). No one else causes opposing forwards to be careful about entering our zone. You replace Cowen with Wiercioch and you just added another soft D-man who is afraid to go into the corners and intimidates no one.

I would say Lehner is pretty close to untouchable as well. Some guys there is no point in moving like Phillips, Methot, Spezza, Alfi, Neil, Condra, Michalek, Pageau, Turris because their value to the Sens will never get anything close to the same return or better.

Cowen, Zibanejad, Anderson (to a lesser extent), Greening, Smith, are guys that could be moved if the price is right. These are the guys that other teams would want to have on their teams but at what price? That's the question in all of this.

Silfverberg is the only guy that you could make an argument for in either case. IMO what he will become is what the Sens are trying to trade for now and the Sens are not exactly deep at the wing position. Thus IMO he's one step below untouchable which would be "very, very unlikely to move in any kind of scenario or deal".

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:

That's the other thing, people calling Cowen the next Chara or even in that relm. NO ONE in the NHL has the work ethic of Chara, no one. That's one of the reasons he left Ottawa was because he worked so hard it pissed other people in that room off aside from Alfi. Chara also never had injury problems let alone major parts of the body like hips and knees.
.

My comparison to Chara was more that he is the closest thing we have to do Big Z (mostly in terms of size). Obviously Chara is a special case due to his work ethic etc but Cowen comes the closest due to size and skill.

Cowen is the only intimidating D-man we have(apart from Gryba I suppose), his hit on Pacioretty in Game 1 had a big impact on the series as MaxiPad disappeared for the rest of the series (and I think he was injured). Methot is physical and hipchecks people from time to time(and usually gets penalized for it). No one else causes opposing forwards to be careful about entering our zone. You replace Cowen with Wiercioch and you just added another soft D-man who is afraid to go into the corners and intimidates no one.

And the Sens lose every game 1-0... so what? Sens need a big time winger and if it's Yakupov then Cowen is going the other way. You can make due if you add a future 40 goal scorer (maybe better). In a Ryan deal I would put the breaks on a Cowen deal simply because Ryan isn't a sure thing in Ottawa.

Anything involving a guy like Eberle, Yakupov, something like that... Cowen could be dealt and the team wouldn't miss a beat and would be better for it.

With the division landscape changing, the goal should be to match the likes of Boston, Toronto, Detroit. No one can say Cowen is untouchable, but I wouldn't want to deal a person I think we'll need to match up to these teams. Having Cowen helped us beat the Habs. I don't think we're this desperate or deep to hand over Cowen for a sniper....unless it's the likes of Malkin

I have to agree with Neely on here although I'd like to point out that you have to try anything that is possible in order to keep Cowen. He's scarier to play against every year that goes by.

I find a trade might happen after the FA frenzy happens, especially if Edmonton can't make any decent aquisitions there. They need some grit in the bottom 6 and some help on defense, is it silly to believe that we could package smith with weir with next years 1st for one of the top wingers? Maybe it's a stretch but it might be a scenario

You still need to score goals to win. Hopefully the Sens can make a move where they land a top line winger without moving Cowen because he does matchup well in division and defense wins championships. With that said, all the people going "well Ryan only has 2 years left" or "I wouldn't deal this player for that player", lol, gotta do something because the current Sens roster isn't good enough to get past the likes of Pitt or Boston.

Ottawa is a depth player up front, a top 4 D man, and a legit 1st line winger away from being a legit cup contender. The depth player can probably be brought in via cheap trade of UFA, they have the cap space. The top 4 D man... not sure but they could find one from within if someone is ready to take the next step or via trade. The last part is the hardest and you have to give to get. If they could just give up their 1st rounders this year and next and maybe a mid tier prospect, that would be great but I don't see that happening.