What does it take to get Nash?

SpezDispenser wrote:I agree, although Zibanejad is a piece I would move for Nash personally. Can't resist.

Sure, but all three? I like Nash, but we aren't talking about a guy who's perennially challenging for a scoring title or anything. I think he'd be great with Spezza, but damn, that really does seems like a lot for Nash.

For me, it's the sum of the parts, that makes this seem so steep. What is also not being talked about in this scenario is the salary that Ottawa would be relieving Columbus of, something I would think would be quite desirable in and of itself.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I agree, although Zibanejad is a piece I would move for Nash personally. Can't resist.

Sure, but all three? I like Nash, but we aren't talking about a guy who's perennially challenging for a scoring title or anything. I think he'd be great with Spezza, but damn, that really does seems like a lot for Nash.

For me, it's the sum of the parts, that makes this seem so steep. What is also not being talked about in this scenario is the salary that Ottawa would be relieving Columbus of, something I would think would be quite desirable in and of itself.

I look at Bishop as bait personally. We got him to help us make the playoffs, but not for the long run, just a really smart purchase by Murray wjo can now parlay him into a huge forward. The 1st hurts because of the dearth if D prospects, but we can buy a UFA or two, or perhaps even trade Smith or someone similar for a young defense man.

Big Ev wrote:I would offer a combo of current players (such as Foligno/Michalek and Bishop) and both our 2012 and 2013 first round picks if needed. That way, you don't lose anything in the cupboard on forward.

Columbus gets a goalie, 2 1st round picks, and a good current, young position player.

Next year's first?

I expect (although I don't want to see it), that we'll see the Sens drop off a bit next year. Making the playoffs won't be easy. Let's not kid ourselves here. There are teams that WILL be better (Tampa and Buffalo spring to mind), and we face the uncertainty of Alfie possibly not returning. Will the loss of Kuba be felt, especially if he isn't replaced? Can we expect Gonchar to do anything but decline? I'm not holding my breath. I'm not forecasting doom and gloom here, but I don't think we are a lock for a playoff spot by any means.

It just seems to me that this isn't the right time, nor the right way to build this team for long term success going after Nash.

I don't know why people are including Michalek. The point to getting Nash is o you can have both. Our top 6 with Michalek needs help, which is the whole reason you add Nash. Our team minus Michalek plus Nash is a lateral move essentially. You keep your stars and move the young guys and the spare parts.

Riprock wrote:I don't know why people are including Michalek. The point to getting Nash is o you can have both. Our top 6 with Michalek needs help, which is the whole reason you add Nash. Our team minus Michalek plus Nash is a lateral move essentially. You keep your stars and move the young guys and the spare parts.

I don't consider Michalek a star.

So you give up a 30 goal scorer for a... 30 goal scorer?

hemlock wrote:

Big Ev wrote:I would offer a combo of current players (such as Foligno/Michalek and Bishop) and both our 2012 and 2013 first round picks if needed. That way, you don't lose anything in the cupboard on forward.

Columbus gets a goalie, 2 1st round picks, and a good current, young position player.

Next year's first?

I expect (although I don't want to see it), that we'll see the Sens drop off a bit next year. Making the playoffs won't be easy. Let's not kid ourselves here. There are teams that WILL be better (Tampa and Buffalo spring to mind), and we face the uncertainty of Alfie possibly not returning. Will the loss of Kuba be felt, especially if he isn't replaced? Can we expect Gonchar to do anything but decline? I'm not holding my breath. I'm not forecasting doom and gloom here, but I don't think we are a lock for a playoff spot by any means.

It just seems to me that this isn't the right time, nor the right way to build this team for long term success going after Nash.

But you're forgetting that they would be adding Nash, which would improve the team in the short term even if Alfredsson retired. I don't see how they would finish worse than they are right now with Nash on the team. Plus, they would surely shore up holes through trades and various signings.

The 2013 pick doesn't really do much for us IMO. We already have a slew of prospects.

SpezDispenser wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I agree, although Zibanejad is a piece I would move for Nash personally. Can't resist.

Sure, but all three? I like Nash, but we aren't talking about a guy who's perennially challenging for a scoring title or anything. I think he'd be great with Spezza, but damn, that really does seems like a lot for Nash.

For me, it's the sum of the parts, that makes this seem so steep. What is also not being talked about in this scenario is the salary that Ottawa would be relieving Columbus of, something I would think would be quite desirable in and of itself.

I look at Bishop as bait personally. We got him to help us make the playoffs, but not for the long run, just a really smart purchase by Murray wjo can now parlay him into a huge forward. The 1st hurts because of the dearth if D prospects, but we can buy a UFA or two, or perhaps even trade Smith or someone similar for a young defense man.

I agree that he's not long for Ottawa and that barring some miracle he will move on.

I don't know if Zack Smith fetches a young defenseman though.

Big Ev wrote:

Riprock wrote:I don't know why people are including Michalek. The point to getting Nash is o you can have both. Our top 6 with Michalek needs help, which is the whole reason you add Nash. Our team minus Michalek plus Nash is a lateral move essentially. You keep your stars and move the young guys and the spare parts.

I don't consider Michalek a star.

Only when the All-Star game is in Ottawa.

Funny that Ev would rather give up Michalek + 2 1sts instead of one pick, a prospect with 2 concussions, and a goalie.

Riprock wrote:So you give up a 30 goal scorer for a... 30 goal scorer?

I think Nash is a lot more reliable, is much more physical than Michalek, and is simply a much better player. Michalek has scored 30 once. His career year was just this past season, and it wasn't spectacular even for a career year. Nash has scored 30 goals 7 times already.

Plus he's just more healthy than Michalek.

hemlock wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

Riprock wrote:I don't know why people are including Michalek. The point to getting Nash is o you can have both. Our top 6 with Michalek needs help, which is the whole reason you add Nash. Our team minus Michalek plus Nash is a lateral move essentially. You keep your stars and move the young guys and the spare parts.

I don't consider Michalek a star.

Only when the All-Star game is in Ottawa.

Yeah, but he also thinks Zibanejad is a future star since he is untouchable.

Big Ev wrote:

Riprock wrote:So you give up a 30 goal scorer for a... 30 goal scorer?

I think Nash is a lot more reliable, is much more physical than Michalek, and is simply a much better player. Michalek has scored 30 once. His career year was just this past season, and it wasn't spectacular even for a career year. Nash has scored 30 goals 7 times already.

Plus he's just more healthy than Michalek.

Still doesn't make the team much better. The team is way better with both rather one. The team is also better with MM and RN than it would be with RN and MZ.

Riprock wrote:Funny that Ev would rather give up Michalek + 2 1sts instead of one pick, a prospect with 2 concussions, and a goalie.

I am including the goalie in the Michalek + 2 1sts package.

Zibanejad is a Cussing whole lot more valuable than the 15th overall from 2012 and the 2013 first round pick. Those aren't that important right now. Zibanejad is. And enough with the concussion stuff. The guy is fine. Funny what the media can do to people's opinions.

Zibanejad is nothing right now. Nobody NOT on the Sens team is anything.

Riprock wrote:Zibanejad is nothing right now. Nobody NOT on the Sens team is anything.

That's false. By that logic Colin Greening is more valuable than Zibanejad.

Big Ev wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Big Ev wrote:I would offer a combo of current players (such as Foligno/Michalek and Bishop) and both our 2012 and 2013 first round picks if needed. That way, you don't lose anything in the cupboard on forward.

Columbus gets a goalie, 2 1st round picks, and a good current, young position player.

Next year's first?

I expect (although I don't want to see it), that we'll see the Sens drop off a bit next year. Making the playoffs won't be easy. Let's not kid ourselves here. There are teams that WILL be better (Tampa and Buffalo spring to mind), and we face the uncertainty of Alfie possibly not returning. Will the loss of Kuba be felt, especially if he isn't replaced? Can we expect Gonchar to do anything but decline? I'm not holding my breath. I'm not forecasting doom and gloom here, but I don't think we are a lock for a playoff spot by any means.

It just seems to me that this isn't the right time, nor the right way to build this team for long term success going after Nash.

But you're forgetting that they would be adding Nash, which would improve the team in the short term even if Alfredsson retired. I don't see how they would finish worse than they are right now with Nash on the team. Plus, they would surely shore up holes through trades and various signings.

The 2013 pick doesn't really do much for us IMO. We already have a slew of prospects.

Fair enough, but my biggest area of concern is our defence. Nash doesn't help that, and selling the farm on him (two firsts, a good young goalie and a roster forward is selling the farm imo) certainly hurts our chances of improving the back end. I think it's safe to say that if we are going to improve our defence for next season it'll be via a trade, since the FA market is Dung and Ottawa isn't a "player" typically anyway. Your point about shoring up holes seems a littler easier said that done imo. We aren't talking about a depth d-man here. We will almost certainly have to replace a top pairing d-man. Hell, Phillips and Gonchar are a combined 280 years old.

I really think Nash would be a big time scorer in Ottawa, but we'd have to win all our games 9-7.

I wouldn't move Michalek, or Silfverberg, or Zibanejad.

Nick Foligno + Robin Lehner + Matt Puempel + OTT 1st 2012
or
Nick Foligno + Ben Bishop + Stefan Noesen + OTT 1st 2012

If Columbus wants more than that they can find a new team to deal with.