Erik Condra signs 2 year deal with Sens

Da lil Guy wrote:I haven't poured through the other provisions that may apply. Special rules may apply to Greening and Butler because of their college careers - particularly in Butler's case, because he was never drafted. The CBA as available online isn't very well cross referenced, so you always have to be on the lookout for clauses that could overide eachother, even where they seem to say something obvious.

EDIT: FWIW - Nhlnumbers shows Greening as UFA at the expiry of his current deal.

CapGeek shows Greening as an UFA now too.

rooneypoo wrote:

Da lil Guy wrote:I was going right from the CBA when I made that post. I don't like doubting capgeek - who is generally on the ball when it comes to stuff like this - but, my reading of the CBA says that Butler would be UFA upon expiry of a 3 year contract (27 in April, 2014) and Greening gives up a year of UFA status under his current contract (27 in March, 2013).

I've emailed capgeek for a clarification - we'll see if he/she/they gets back to me.

If you ask me, the clause is pretty unambiguous. At 27, you are a UFA, regardless of accrued pro seasons. At least, that's how it's worked under the CBA for the last 3-4 years, anyway.

Originally (the text I was going from covered up to 2008-09) the clause said "27 years of age and 4 years accrued NHL experience". My (out of date) copy of the CBA is on my home PC which I almost never use any more. Is there a more up-to-date version? I think the one I have is 2005.

Anyhow, sounds like they've really changed things up quite a bit -- and definitely not for the better. 27 (IMO) is really, really young. College grads may not even sniff a professional contract until they are 23-24. Their ELC is only 2 years and they could be going straight to UFA status after that? That's terrible if you find a gem that everyone else missed.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

Sorry, SD, but you've got stars in your eyes. Butler is (as someone pointed out earlier) still just a one-dimensional player. He has chemistry with Spezza and a scorer's knack of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing what to do. He's had a 36-game campaign when the pressure was off and when the opposition may not have been playing their A game (let's face it, most of them probably weren't). Now we are about to see what he's like for a full season under the scrutiny of the other team's best defensive line and pairing. And you want to give him a three-year deal? I suppose it could happen but, after Regin, I don't think it will.

Some of those teams the Sens were playing down the stretch DID HAVE something to play for. Positioning for the playoffs... like Tampa, Toronto, Wash, Mtl. etc. Sens were out of the playoffs but the other teams were not... they were still in a competitive environment even if the Sens were playing for nothing. They went into the pressure cooker in Bingo during the Calder Cup playoffs and the eventual win.

Da lil Guy wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

They bought a UFA year with Greening's contract, but I don't know if it makes sense for Butler because you'd have to go 4 years. That's why I say 2 years, not 3 - because 2 years will leave him RFA at the end, whereas 3 years from now he'll be UFA eligible (unless my admittedly cursory calculations are wrong).

Murray will have to stagger the contracts so they all don't expire in the same year. I would imagine if he signs a new contract (and not the qualifying offer of the two-way) then I believe they will try for 4 yrs.

I thought Butler was decent defensively, certainly not a 1-dimensional floater like Heatley. Good speed and good scoring instincts and shot. I don't know if his skills are good enough to score consistently at the NHL level though.

I don't think there's such a thing as no pressure in the NHL. The entire team had quit during the year until the trade deadline purge and call up of half of the Bingo Sens. These guys were getting the best chance they could ever hope for in the NHL and it showed.

I think it was a good indicator, they're still unproven and the Sens are creating a very competitive training camp so I'm sure Butler, Greening and Condra will bring it next year as well.

sandysensfan wrote:
Some of those teams the Sens were playing down the stretch DID HAVE something to play for. Positioning for the playoffs... like Tampa, Toronto, Wash, Mtl. etc. Sens were out of the playoffs but the other teams were not... they were still in a competitive environment even if the Sens were playing for nothing. They went into the pressure cooker in Bingo during the Calder Cup playoffs and the eventual win.

Yep, Butler had to play - and he had to score, or he's in no position right now to be an NHLer - that's some pretty decent pressure. Not only that, other teams are playing hard, like really hard, some of them trying to make the playoffs, some of them doing the same as the Sens - playing for jobs. I'm of the firm belief that there are no longer ANY easy games, no one is taking off a night for you anymore.

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:
Some of those teams the Sens were playing down the stretch DID HAVE something to play for. Positioning for the playoffs... like Tampa, Toronto, Wash, Mtl. etc. Sens were out of the playoffs but the other teams were not... they were still in a competitive environment even if the Sens were playing for nothing. They went into the pressure cooker in Bingo during the Calder Cup playoffs and the eventual win.

Yep, Butler had to play - and he had to score, or he's in no position right now to be an NHLer - that's some pretty decent pressure. Not only that, other teams are playing hard, like really hard, some of them trying to make the playoffs, some of them doing the same as the Sens - playing for jobs. I'm of the firm belief that there are no longer ANY easy games, no one is taking off a night for you anymore.

Look, I'm not saying the guy is a bust, and when I said he was one-dimensional I did not mean that he will never be able to do anything else. But he's had 36 games when the pressure was off, and, although you're right, there were still some teams fighting for a playoff spot, in general teams were likely not taking the Sens as seriously as they would be next season. And they certainly would be paying a little more attention to Butler. And Butler will certainly learn to do more -- never meant to imply he wasn't capable of learning.

All that said, he has 36 games under his belt and some are suggesting giving him $1.2M or a 4-year term? That's just too much on both counts.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

sandysensfan wrote:
Some of those teams the Sens were playing down the stretch DID HAVE something to play for. Positioning for the playoffs... like Tampa, Toronto, Wash, Mtl. etc. Sens were out of the playoffs but the other teams were not... they were still in a competitive environment even if the Sens were playing for nothing. They went into the pressure cooker in Bingo during the Calder Cup playoffs and the eventual win.

Yep, Butler had to play - and he had to score, or he's in no position right now to be an NHLer - that's some pretty decent pressure. Not only that, other teams are playing hard, like really hard, some of them trying to make the playoffs, some of them doing the same as the Sens - playing for jobs. I'm of the firm belief that there are no longer ANY easy games, no one is taking off a night for you anymore.

Look, I'm not saying the guy is a bust, and when I said he was one-dimensional I did not mean that he will never be able to do anything else. But he's had 36 games when the pressure was off, and, although you're right, there were still some teams fighting for a playoff spot, in general teams were likely not taking the Sens as seriously as they would be next season. And they certainly would be paying a little more attention to Butler. And Butler will certainly learn to do more -- never meant to imply he wasn't capable of learning.

All that said, he has 36 games under his belt and some are suggesting giving him $1.2M or a 4-year term? That's just too much on both counts.

4-year term would be ridiculous at this point. This will be a 1-3-year deal, max. Given his age, 1-2 years makes the most sense.

I just don't think the team or the player benefit from a 4 year deal in this case, unless one side unilaterally gives up a lot.

wprager wrote:
Look, I'm not saying the guy is a bust, and when I said he was one-dimensional I did not mean that he will never be able to do anything else. But he's had 36 games when the pressure was off, and, although you're right, there were still some teams fighting for a playoff spot, in general teams were likely not taking the Sens as seriously as they would be next season. And they certainly would be paying a little more attention to Butler. And Butler will certainly learn to do more -- never meant to imply he wasn't capable of learning.

All that said, he has 36 games under his belt and some are suggesting giving him $1.2M or a 4-year term? That's just too much on both counts.

It's either 2 or 3 years IMO. When 2 years is done, he's still and RFA, ditto year 3 if I understand correctly, so we should expect either of those. It should be a slam dunk - around 900K, maybe a million and we're done. Not sure what the sticking point is right now to be honest.

He'd be UFA after 3 years as I read the CBA - which is why I think 2 years is the likely length of any deal.

Da lil Guy wrote:He'd be UFA after 3 years as I read the CBA - which is why I think 2 years is the likely length of any deal.

Let's do it, 2 years, 1.9 million total. That's my final guess.