Erik Condra signs 2 year deal with Sens

I think Murray is likely offering slightly more than Greening, but no more than a 2 year deal. 900K range.

I think the deal ends up looking like the one Regin signed last year. 2 years x $1 million - but anywhere up to $1.2 probably isn't out of the question.

Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

Sorry, SD, but you've got stars in your eyes. Butler is (as someone pointed out earlier) still just a one-dimensional player. He has chemistry with Spezza and a scorer's knack of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing what to do. He's had a 36-game campaign when the pressure was off and when the opposition may not have been playing their A game (let's face it, most of them probably weren't). Now we are about to see what he's like for a full season under the scrutiny of the other team's best defensive line and pairing. And you want to give him a three-year deal? I suppose it could happen but, after Regin, I don't think it will.

I must've missed it when Butler became a regular NHL player?

He still has A LOT to prove. A two-year, Erik Condra-type deal would be fine.

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

They bought a UFA year with Greening's contract, but I don't know if it makes sense for Butler because you'd have to go 4 years. That's why I say 2 years, not 3 - because 2 years will leave him RFA at the end, whereas 3 years from now he'll be UFA eligible (unless my admittedly cursory calculations are wrong).

Da lil Guy wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

They bought a UFA year with Greening's contract, but I don't know if it makes sense for Butler because you'd have to go 4 years. That's why I say 2 years, not 3 - because 2 years will leave him RFA at the end, whereas 3 years from now he'll be UFA eligible (unless my admittedly cursory calculations are wrong).

I don't think so. To be eligible for unrestricted free agency a player has to have 7 seasons in the NHL (he be on his 4th in the last year of the deal) or be 28 years old with 4 accrued seasons. Capgeek has him as RFA at the end of his contract, but that doesn't sound right. He'll be 28 in March of the last year of his contract, and that will be his 4th year in the league. So he should be UFA at the end of his contract (not RFA, unless I'm missing something else). However hs'e not giving up a year of free agency.

wprager wrote:

Da lil Guy wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

They bought a UFA year with Greening's contract, but I don't know if it makes sense for Butler because you'd have to go 4 years. That's why I say 2 years, not 3 - because 2 years will leave him RFA at the end, whereas 3 years from now he'll be UFA eligible (unless my admittedly cursory calculations are wrong).

I don't think so. To be eligible for unrestricted free agency a player has to have 7 seasons in the NHL (he be on his 4th in the last year of the deal) or be 28 years old with 4 accrued seasons. Capgeek has him as RFA at the end of his contract, but that doesn't sound right. He'll be 28 in March of the last year of his contract, and that will be his 4th year in the league. So he should be UFA at the end of his contract (not RFA, unless I'm missing something else). However hs'e not giving up a year of free agency.

You've got a couple things mixed up here, but I think you're mostly right on the whole.

I'm pretty sure we had this discussion about Greening before, and I'm pretty sure I said that it looks to me like CapGeek is wrong on this one and that he will be a UFA at the end of this recent deal.

Anyway, the CBA clause in question here is 10.1(a)(i)(d). The CBA lays out specific criteria for UFA status for each year of the CBA, with different criteria for different years. Here's the wording:

For "(D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year, shall, if his most recent SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of the applicable League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted Free Agent."

You'll notice that the 2011-12 season isn't covered there, but that's because the original post-lockout CBA was only for 5 years. The CBA, you'll remember, was extended a year ago, with the terms of the 2010-11 year applying to the 2011-12 year.

Anyway, this means that the new formula for UFA status for the final 4 years of the CBA is 7 pro seasons (not NHL, but pro -- so that includes the AHL) OR 27 years of age as of June 30th of the year. Any player who reaches either of those plateaus becomes a UFA.

For the record, because Greening will be 28 at the end of this deal, he will effectively have given up his first year of free agency.

I was going right from the CBA when I made that post. I don't like doubting capgeek - who is generally on the ball when it comes to stuff like this - but, my reading of the CBA says that Butler would be UFA upon expiry of a 3 year contract (27 in April, 2014) and Greening gives up a year of UFA status under his current contract (27 in March, 2013).

I've emailed capgeek for a clarification - we'll see if he/she/they gets back to me.

wprager wrote:
Sorry, SD, but you've got stars in your eyes. Butler is (as someone pointed out earlier) still just a one-dimensional player. He has chemistry with Spezza and a scorer's knack of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing what to do. He's had a 36-game campaign when the pressure was off and when the opposition may not have been playing their A game (let's face it, most of them probably weren't). Now we are about to see what he's like for a full season under the scrutiny of the other team's best defensive line and pairing. And you want to give him a three-year deal? I suppose it could happen but, after Regin, I don't think it will.

That's fair Prager, that's your opinion and it's valid. All I can say is: watch what happens with Butler this year in Ottawa. He needs to work on his 2-way play, but that's something that can be taught and can be done with hard work and attention to detail - two things that Butler is definitely known for.

What can't be taught is the goal-scorer's mentality. First, you have to have the snipe to even be considered and Butler has the shot in a BIG way. Second, you have to be able to slip through defenders and find the open space - Heatley was one of the best at this and Butler's also got this in spades. Those two things alone make him the perfect match for Spezza, a player who is league known for finding guys who can slip into open spaces (again, like Heatley).

This summer will go a long way to determining how much success Butler has next year. He needs to build up his core so he's not pushed off pucks and he needs to go over video again and again to improve his play away from the puck, but my opinion is that he's a 20 goal guy on Spezza's wing without breaking a sweat. And frankly, we have precious few guys like that who can score. You'll see...

Da lil Guy wrote:I was going right from the CBA when I made that post. I don't like doubting capgeek - who is generally on the ball when it comes to stuff like this - but, my reading of the CBA says that Butler would be UFA upon expiry of a 3 year contract (27 in April, 2014) and Greening gives up a year of UFA status under his current contract (27 in March, 2013).

I've emailed capgeek for a clarification - we'll see if he/she/they gets back to me.

If you ask me, the clause is pretty unambiguous. At 27, you are a UFA, regardless of accrued pro seasons. At least, that's how it's worked under the CBA for the last 3-4 years, anyway.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:
Sorry, SD, but you've got stars in your eyes. Butler is (as someone pointed out earlier) still just a one-dimensional player. He has chemistry with Spezza and a scorer's knack of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing what to do. He's had a 36-game campaign when the pressure was off and when the opposition may not have been playing their A game (let's face it, most of them probably weren't). Now we are about to see what he's like for a full season under the scrutiny of the other team's best defensive line and pairing. And you want to give him a three-year deal? I suppose it could happen but, after Regin, I don't think it will.

That's fair Prager, that's your opinion and it's valid. All I can say is: watch what happens with Butler this year in Ottawa. He needs to work on his 2-way play, but that's something that can be taught and can be done with hard work and attention to detail - two things that Butler is definitely known for.

What can't be taught is the goal-scorer's mentality. First, you have to have the snipe to even be considered and Butler has the shot in a BIG way. Second, you have to be able to slip through defenders and find the open space - Heatley was one of the best at this and Butler's also got this in spades. Those two things alone make him the perfect match for Spezza, a player who is league known for finding guys who can slip into open spaces (again, like Heatley).

This summer will go a long way to determining how much success Butler has next year. He needs to build up his core so he's not pushed off pucks and he needs to go over video again and again to improve his play away from the puck, but my opinion is that he's a 20 goal guy on Spezza's wing without breaking a sweat. And frankly, we have precious few guys like that who can score. You'll see...

Man, I would love it if some of our young guys have a real breakout season -- I'm talking 20+ goal seasons here -- and make people take notice. Butler and Filatov are probably the best bets to do so, skill-wise and so on, but we could also see something out of Foligno and Regin, who are both entering contract years. I don't remember the last time we had a young forward step in and make a huge difference, offensively, immediately. Probably Havlat or Spezza.

A year of total busts across the board, with each of those guys getting 10 or less goals, etc., would be really demoralizing. This is their big opportunity, and they need to step up and grab it.

I thought it was 26, but 27 seems fair. There's no if ands or buts there I don't think, it's UFA at 27. I could have sworn it was 26, but that makes it even easier. Two years for Butler @ 0.900 per year. Done and done, prove yourself, go.

SpezDispenser wrote:I thought it was 26, but 27 seems fair. There's no if ands or buts there I don't think, it's UFA at 27. I could have sworn it was 26, but that makes it even easier. Two years for Butler @ 0.900 per year. Done and done, prove yourself, go.

Well, with this CBA, you can become a UFA as early as 25 -- you just have to accrue 7 pro seasons, starting at the age of 18. It's rare, but it happens. That's how it went for JBo, I believe, and that's probably how it will go for Skinner, too.

rooneypoo wrote:Man, I would love it if some of our young guys have a real breakout season -- I'm talking 20+ goal seasons here -- and make people take notice. Butler and Filatov are probably the best bets to do so, skill-wise and so on, but we could also see something out of Foligno and Regin, who are both entering contract years. I don't remember the last time we had a young forward step in and make a huge difference, offensively, immediately. Probably Havlat or Spezza.

A year of total busts across the board, with each of those guys getting 10 or less goals, etc., would be really demoralizing. This is their big opportunity, and they need to step up and grab it.

Yeah, it would be a wonderful breath of fresh air if a couple of our younger players had bounce-back years. Specifically Regin, who's a personal favourite of mine. I really think he and MacLean were made for each other and that MacLean will get the most out of him. If we're looking at a Detroit model, Regin fits in to a T IMO.

That said, we know it's coming. If not this year, then the year after, there's almost no stopping some of the guys we have in the system, there will be opportunities aplenty, with big minutes in the NHL. Condra could easily move up to a top 6 role if something happens, ditto Greening - and to me those are hugely encouraging signs that we're on the right track.

As for Butler, I feel very strongly that with his tools + PP1 time with Spezza, plus top line time, you're looking at a legitimate 20 goal guy, probably more, but why say that in his first full year, just wait and see what he can bring I guess.

I haven't poured through the other provisions that may apply. Special rules may apply to Greening and Butler because of their college careers - particularly in Butler's case, because he was never drafted. The CBA as available online isn't very well cross referenced, so you always have to be on the lookout for clauses that could overide eachother, even where they seem to say something obvious.

EDIT: FWIW - Nhlnumbers shows Greening as UFA at the expiry of his current deal.

Da lil Guy wrote:I haven't poured through the other provisions that may apply. Special rules may apply to Greening and Butler because of their college careers - particularly in Butler's case, because he was never drafted. The CBA as available online isn't very well cross referenced, so you always have to be on the lookout for clauses that could overide eachother, even where they seem to say something obvious.

EDIT: FWIW - Nhlnumbers shows Greening as UFA at the expiry of his current deal.

CapGeek shows Greening as an UFA now too.

rooneypoo wrote:

Da lil Guy wrote:I was going right from the CBA when I made that post. I don't like doubting capgeek - who is generally on the ball when it comes to stuff like this - but, my reading of the CBA says that Butler would be UFA upon expiry of a 3 year contract (27 in April, 2014) and Greening gives up a year of UFA status under his current contract (27 in March, 2013).

I've emailed capgeek for a clarification - we'll see if he/she/they gets back to me.

If you ask me, the clause is pretty unambiguous. At 27, you are a UFA, regardless of accrued pro seasons. At least, that's how it's worked under the CBA for the last 3-4 years, anyway.

Originally (the text I was going from covered up to 2008-09) the clause said "27 years of age and 4 years accrued NHL experience". My (out of date) copy of the CBA is on my home PC which I almost never use any more. Is there a more up-to-date version? I think the one I have is 2005.

Anyhow, sounds like they've really changed things up quite a bit -- and definitely not for the better. 27 (IMO) is really, really young. College grads may not even sniff a professional contract until they are 23-24. Their ELC is only 2 years and they could be going straight to UFA status after that? That's terrible if you find a gem that everyone else missed.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn, if we're smart, we buy a year of his UFA the more I think about it.

700K next year, 800K the year after, 1.1 the year after that, average of 0.867 and we're all good. Let's shoot for that Murray!

Sorry, SD, but you've got stars in your eyes. Butler is (as someone pointed out earlier) still just a one-dimensional player. He has chemistry with Spezza and a scorer's knack of being in the right place at the right time, and knowing what to do. He's had a 36-game campaign when the pressure was off and when the opposition may not have been playing their A game (let's face it, most of them probably weren't). Now we are about to see what he's like for a full season under the scrutiny of the other team's best defensive line and pairing. And you want to give him a three-year deal? I suppose it could happen but, after Regin, I don't think it will.

Some of those teams the Sens were playing down the stretch DID HAVE something to play for. Positioning for the playoffs... like Tampa, Toronto, Wash, Mtl. etc. Sens were out of the playoffs but the other teams were not... they were still in a competitive environment even if the Sens were playing for nothing. They went into the pressure cooker in Bingo during the Calder Cup playoffs and the eventual win.