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Sens Lineup Card for 11/12

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LeCaptain
jawal
Oglethorpe
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Da lil Guy
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376Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:40 am

NEELY


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Hoags wrote:
wprager wrote:
He has not outplayed Regin. He's shown better than I expected, but so has Regin. At this point, as much as I've been impressed with DaCosta, I'd keep Zibanejad. I'd play him on the wing until injuries dictated otherwise, and see how things go after a handful of games. One thing Zibanejad has over DaCosta is size.

I'd keep Da Costa and send Zibby down to SEL. Unless you're the next Crosby, Stamkos etc. I don't think you should be in the NHL at 18 and he JUST turned 18. What's the rush ?

Given same ice time, same linemates I think Da Costa would put up more points and generate more scoring chances over Regin. Da Costa creates "How the Diddle did he pull that off ?" moves, that's the kind of sheer talent you need in the top-6. Regin is a great player though.

Agree with the 1st part, disagree with the 2nd. Da Costa has outplayed Zibanejad in this camp, for that reason only I think you send Zibanejad back to The SEL. The best players should be on the team and Da Costa has looked really, really good.

The 2nd part, you look at Skinner, Burmistrov, Kulikov, Perron, all those guys played at 18 and they have been nothing short of very good to great since that time. You can develop players at The NHL level. A guy like Filatov is an example of a player that wasn't ready and was in an organization that destroys prospects. It all depends on the player. Zibanejad IMO is NHL ready but he's being outplayed. You're right when you say there is no rush, but right now with Da Costa playing the way he has, there is no room in Ottawa for him.

377Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:43 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.

378Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:26 am

cash


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Sophomore

NEELY wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.
It was supposed to be a swap of first round picks. Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for Columbus's 1st and Filatov. Filatov was the price they would pay to move up two spots, and because that's pretty steep, Ottawa tosses in a 3rd. Somehow Murray convinced them to do the deal anyways, after that first was shipped to Philly.

Now that I think about it, it makes more sense for it to be a 4th initially that they made a 3rd once the larger deal fell apart. Either way, Murray made it happen without the 1st's being involved, which is pretty amazing.

379Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:29 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod

Murray has done everything right the last year or so. Still not sure how he got Anderson for Elliott, but w/e.

380Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:31 am

Ev

Ev
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Franchise Player

cash wrote:
NEELY wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.
It was supposed to be a swap of first round picks. Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for Columbus's 1st and Filatov. Filatov was the price they would pay to move up two spots, and because that's pretty steep, Ottawa tosses in a 3rd. Somehow Murray convinced them to do the deal anyways, after that first was shipped to Philly.

Now that I think about it, it makes more sense for it to be a 4th initially that they made a 3rd once the larger deal fell apart. Either way, Murray made it happen without the 1st's being involved, which is pretty amazing.

Not buying that, and you might wanna say why you would know that before posting.

381Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:19 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
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Not sure about that either personally.

As for Filatov, I forgot they had switched their coach the year previous, but I still think it's horrible asset management to trade him for a 3rd before he's played even a full season. Our gain obviously, but I still think it's silly.

382Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:24 am

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

Big Ev wrote:
cash wrote:
NEELY wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Alexander Burmistrov is the perfect example IMO. He did not have a lot of points but he is looking great this pre-season and playing as an 18-year old getting 3rd line minutes did not hurt him.

One guy who should NEVER have sticked was Filatov. Don't know what Columbus was thinking.

No idea. They weren't is the best way of looking at it. He needed to be brought up slowly not rushed. Typical young, small bodied player that can't be rushed.

I don't know what they were thinking trading him for a 3rd. I really don't. New coach, clean slate, let's get you in there and see what we have. If he sucks...does that pick go from a 3rd to a 5th? That's a gamble I would have taken personally.

It was not a new coach. Same coach as last year, and he wore out his welcome with him too.

It's really not hard to understand CBJ's perspective TBH. A player who you really can't stand anymore, who has no value at the moment...they traded him for whatever they could get.

I think it was more of a rush job, they had a player in mind at the draft their scouts really liked, they could get him with Ottawa's pick. Filatov wasn't going to play in COlumbus so they did what was best for their organization at that point in time. If he was shopped around for a month or two I would bet her gets a 3rd or another player who may have fallen out of favour with a team.

W/e, it seems to be Ottawa's gain here. If he reaches 1/2 of his true potential, he's a legit 2nd line player. He's also surrounded by a great mix of vets and players his age that he can grow with, I think that's critical in his development from this point on... Columbus had none of that, just a bunch of players thrown together with one star who is bigger than the team there.
It was supposed to be a swap of first round picks. Ottawa's 1st and 3rd for Columbus's 1st and Filatov. Filatov was the price they would pay to move up two spots, and because that's pretty steep, Ottawa tosses in a 3rd. Somehow Murray convinced them to do the deal anyways, after that first was shipped to Philly.

Now that I think about it, it makes more sense for it to be a 4th initially that they made a 3rd once the larger deal fell apart. Either way, Murray made it happen without the 1st's being involved, which is pretty amazing.

Not buying that, and you might wanna say why you would know that before posting.
:crossarms: I thought that was common knowledge. I know for a fact I heard that from a reputable source. I'm also not the type to post bs rumours without trying to debunk them. I've heard that in from 2 sources and I can't remember which...

I'll try to find them.

383Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:28 am

tim1_2

tim1_2
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I wouldn't waste your time trying to find anything. This is all irrelevant at this point. A 3rd rounder for Filatov was a steal, regardless of what the original deal was supposed to be.

384Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:34 am

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

SD and Big Ev, both of you post on HF. I can't find it, but I guarantee people on there have heard of it. Do me a favour and ask them there if they've heard of it. I'm sure someone will have a source for it, although I thought it was from the citizen...

385Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:43 am

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

tim1_2 wrote:I wouldn't waste your time trying to find anything. This is all irrelevant at this point. A 3rd rounder for Filatov was a steal, regardless of what the original deal was supposed to be.

But it helps explain why Filatov was traded for a 3rd. It doesn't make sense, otherwise. They could have recouped more if they'd offered him around.

It makes sense that there was a deal in place that they couldn't execute because their first wasn't available anymore. It also makes sense that if Murray could choose between Filatov and Scheifele or Hamilton or Brodin, or Zib/Strome and a 3rd round pick, he would take the former.

2nd day rolls around, Murray presses, CBJ sees a player still available that they want, boom. Trade complete. And you can bet that the Leclaire trade could have been used to push Howson over the edge. We got Cussed on that deal (Lehner notwithstanding).

How else do you explain such a minimal return? He's got all the talent in the world... and he's hardly a flight risk at this point. He went to Russia already and he came back to play in the AHL...

386Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:55 am

tim1_2

tim1_2
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cash wrote:
2nd day rolls around, Murray presses, CBJ sees a player still available that they want, boom. Trade complete. And you can bet that the Leclaire trade could have been used to push Howson over the edge. We got Cussed on that deal (Lehner notwithstanding).

How else do you explain such a minimal return? He's got all the talent in the world... and he's hardly a flight risk at this point. He went to Russia already and he came back to play in the AHL...


I don't think the Leclaire trade would have played into this at all. GMs don't take pity on each other. Also, I still think that trade was in our favour. We got Lehner. I would've traded Vermette straight up for Lehner, or for Leclaire at that point in time. The fact we got both just makes it that much sweeter.

Also, the jury is still out on Filatov. We can proclaim that trade a "win" for Ottawa, but only because the 3rd rounder was surplus for Ottawa. If he's a bust here, then Columbus wins that tradeā€¦let's wait and see.

387Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:03 pm

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

tim1_2 wrote:
cash wrote:
2nd day rolls around, Murray presses, CBJ sees a player still available that they want, boom. Trade complete. And you can bet that the Leclaire trade could have been used to push Howson over the edge. We got Cussed on that deal (Lehner notwithstanding).

How else do you explain such a minimal return? He's got all the talent in the world... and he's hardly a flight risk at this point. He went to Russia already and he came back to play in the AHL...


I don't think the Leclaire trade would have played into this at all. GMs don't take pity on each other. Also, I still think that trade was in our favour. We got Lehner. I would've traded Vermette straight up for Lehner, or for Leclaire at that point in time. The fact we got both just makes it that much sweeter.

Also, the jury is still out on Filatov. We can proclaim that trade a "win" for Ottawa, but only because the 3rd rounder was surplus for Ottawa. If he's a bust here, then Columbus wins that tradeā€¦let's wait and see.

It was a win the very second it was official. If Filatov pans out, it'll be a tremendous coup.

And GM's don't take pity, but they do form relationships. Murray and Howson have a history with each other and that history had us receiving an overpaid, injury prone goalie that flopped, while they got a serviceable top-6 forward with a strong defensive presence. The fact that we turned a random draft pick into a top goaltending prospect is not something Howson can claim value over.

Past trades very much matter in a greater context. Trades don't happen in a vaccuum.

388Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:29 pm

Da lil Guy

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If it were just between Da Costa and Zibanejad, I'd be more leary about sending Zibanejad to SEL.

No question Da Costa has looked great, but so did Bochenski once. A strong camp is one thing, but he has to keep it up.

Given that we also have Regin (who, IMO, has also been very good including better defensively and has experience in the league) I think sending Zibanejad back to SEL is a bit of a no-brainer. If only to save a year of his entry level contract.

Some of the other players who played at 18 who have been named have done so under unusual circumstances. Filatov being rushed probably has a lot to do with the fact that the team was desperate to find a way into the post-season (and find a player with skill to play with Nash).

If Zibanejad was clearly the best player right now, and I expected the team to be competitive, I would say keep him here. That's just not the case on either score.

389Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:09 pm

cash


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Sophomore

Da lil Guy wrote:If it were just between Da Costa and Zibanejad, I'd be more leary about sending Zibanejad to SEL.

No question Da Costa has looked great, but so did Bochenski once. A strong camp is one thing, but he has to keep it up.

Given that we also have Regin (who, IMO, has also been very good including better defensively and has experience in the league) I think sending Zibanejad back to SEL is a bit of a no-brainer. If only to save a year of his entry level contract.

Some of the other players who played at 18 who have been named have done so under unusual circumstances. Filatov being rushed probably has a lot to do with the fact that the team was desperate to find a way into the post-season (and find a player with skill to play with Nash).

If Zibanejad was clearly the best player right now, and I expected the team to be competitive, I would say keep him here. That's just not the case on either score.

No, Bochenski scored a lot. He was placed with two superstars and he capitalized on their fallout. Bochenski didn't create offence, he just put up points.

Da Costa hasn't produced at an alarming rate, but he's been responsible for some of our best scoring chances in each game.

Big BIG difference between those two.

I agree he has to keep it up and I agree he can benefit from time in Bingo.

On the Zib front, I can't imagine him getting sent back before the 9 game mark. He's improved rapidly since rookie camp and amazingly, he's creating scoring opportunities and turnovers against true NHLers. There's about a month to go before a decision has to be made and many people, myself included, feel they'll need every minute of that time to make a decision on what to do with him.

390Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:29 pm

PTFlea

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Damn lol, there are 3 different threads, all with partly the same information and statements that I agree with and keep quoting.

The Z-Bad point there is bang on IMO. Every single game he looks more ready for this league. I think he could stick, but given that Da Costa looks more ready, I'm not sure how that'll work.

391Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:45 pm

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

SpezDispenser wrote:Damn lol, there are 3 different threads, all with partly the same information and statements that I agree with and keep quoting.

The Z-Bad point there is bang on IMO. Every single game he looks more ready for this league. I think he could stick, but given that Da Costa looks more ready, I'm not sure how that'll work.

At one point last game, Zib created a turnover on the forecheck with a big hit and then created another by dogging the puck. The puck then came out to Gonchar at the centre ice line and it may have been the first time I've seen 55 look amped up in an Ottawa uni.

Zib hypes people up with his play. He's a sparkplug. He brings up the intensity of a game. And he's Cussing 18 :KKK:

392Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:53 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
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cash wrote:
At one point last game, Zib created a turnover on the forecheck with a big hit and then created another by dogging the puck. The puck then came out to Gonchar at the centre ice line and it may have been the first time I've seen 55 look amped up in an Ottawa uni.

Zib hypes people up with his play. He's a sparkplug. He brings up the intensity of a game. And he's Cussing 18 :KKK:

Oh yeah, he gets most of the team amped up every time he steps out.

As for Gonchar - I think what's amping him up is MacLean - who knows how to handle him. How much of a relief for Gonchar must it be to have someone in place who appears to have a solid handle on what gameplan he wants from the forwards and the D and how he wants it executed instead of it becoming a guessing game.

393Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 - Page 26 Empty Re: Sens Lineup Card for 11/12 Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:57 pm

cash


Sophomore
Sophomore

SpezDispenser wrote:
cash wrote:
At one point last game, Zib created a turnover on the forecheck with a big hit and then created another by dogging the puck. The puck then came out to Gonchar at the centre ice line and it may have been the first time I've seen 55 look amped up in an Ottawa uni.

Zib hypes people up with his play. He's a sparkplug. He brings up the intensity of a game. And he's Cussing 18 :KKK:

Oh yeah, he gets most of the team amped up every time he steps out.

As for Gonchar - I think what's amping him up is MacLean - who knows how to handle him. How much of a relief for Gonchar must it be to have someone in place who appears to have a solid handle on what gameplan he wants from the forwards and the D and how he wants it executed instead of it becoming a guessing game.

It was a change in behaviour mid-shift. I agree that MacLean's system seems to have renewed him, though.

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